AP IMPACT: Mexico says its troops killed US man

Apparently all of you trying to flame me are incapable of reading. These are the types of posts I was referrring to...

Originally posted by Expat888
Looks like the mexican army learned well from their american trainers at the school of the americas..

Originally posted by againuntodust
Man, Mexico can't get away with anything can they.

One innocent dead and the soldiers get the brig.

I guess everyone can't be the USA and kill millions of innocent civilians while hunting down a 'handful' of people who have committed no crime yet, but are labelled "Al Quada" which happens to be a movement that the USA's CIA created in the first place.

When will we see the real face of justice...

Originally posted by Dumbass
Depopulation, 1 down 6 billion to go

Every single one of these people are no better than the Americans they hate so vehemently. Its the goddamn pot calling the kettle black. Whats the matter? Cant handle hypocrisy pointed out on your dinner plate? You want to get on your holier than though pulpit and preach then you better look in your own back yard and see if there isn't issues on your own home front you should be tending to.

And further more, if you are going to rip into another country, have the balls to put what country you're from in your profile...The only reason for not doing so is because you know your country is no better than mine and maybe even more corrupt.

I lived in Mexico off and on for 5 years. Times have changed and near anarchy is the order of the day the military, the drug gangs, the government are all gangs with an agenda of corruption. Gringos are prey to the predators from all sides of the political, criminal, military, youth gangs, law enforcement spectrum.

Expecting civility in Mexico is so naive. I have many friends that live along the west coast and I would love to go fishing and party with them but I'm not a fool as apparently Mr. Proctor was. I'm sorry for his death and for his family.

I doubt if I will ever visit Mexico again and it's a pity because it's a beautiful country with wonderful people but it's just to dangerous.

If there is not international outrage, and demands made on Mexico to quell the violence and get their military under control, we should use our own to quell it for them.

Are you suggesting we invade yet another country? Oh I see your point; Mexico still has plenty of oil!

Originally posted by whaaa

If there is not international outrage, and demands made on Mexico to quell the violence and get their military under control, we should use our own to quell it for them.

Are you suggesting we invade yet another country? Oh I see your point; Mexico still has plenty of oil!

edit on 26-12-2010 by whaaa because: (no reason given)

I am suggesting that since the war raging in Mexico continues to spill over to our border, though not mentioned in the OP of this article, that our military (in a pure-hearted scenario) should intervene on said border lock it down. However, I also allude to the fact that the very war I am discussing is more-or-less the fault of the government in the USA.

In order to prevent you from further taking my words out of context, separate the American people who are dying and suffering due to this needless war, the Mexican people doing much the same, and the respective governments for the countries.

reply to post by sbctinfantry


As I said in my previous post: The US is perpetuating the violence. We are profiting off of it. We are funding it. We are using it as propaganda.

Why the hell would we go in and stop it??

Because it would be really good business. Also you could then keep those drug assets under tighter guard too.

Ok OP, you used the phrase "fact check", well lets do that. Some Mexican soldiers shot & killed a US Citizen. We dont know whether they did so deliberately or by accident, do we? For whatever reason, they must have felt that they would be in deep sh# for this (perhaps simply b/c he was American) & planted an assault rifle on him to try to justify his death. The Mexican judiciary busted them for this & now they will get whatever's coming to them. How does this add up to your statement that the Mexican Govt murdered the man & tried to cover it up? Do you have any evidence that the senior military who are in direct contact with the govt have been directed to order their troops to target Americans? Surely, if the Mexican Govt wanted to cover it up, we'd never have heard about it b/c, you know... they are the govt & they'd just get rid of any embarrassing evidence/witnesses. Did they? Apparently not.

If this had happened in Iran or North Korea, no doubt many Americans would call for war. Still, many Americans apparently want war with those countries regardless of what they've actually done. Thing is, it wouldn't/wont happen b/c the USA cant afford the wars its in, let alone another & b/c Iran sells oil to China plus the Chinese want NK as a buffer between themselves & western capitalism & the USA cant fight China & win.

Which brings us back to your OP. Just what do you think that the US military could do about the violence in Mexico?

Originally posted by Bunken Drum
Which brings us back to your OP. Just what do you think that the US military could do about the violence in Mexico?

After going through a long diatribe echoing exactly what I am trying to convey, you come to the same question as myself... though you may not realize it.

When the people speak, and the government turns deaf, and the people accept it, who is ultimately to blame?

What should be happening is outrage from the American people. The same people should, in tandem, be ordering a stand down and retraction of all military operations abroad. The same people should be ordering issues like these be dealth with amongst governmental officials in the full confidence that a reasonable result will occur. Failure to do so should have consequences that are real and tangible, to be immediately enacted in the face of such shortcomings.

Assuming all of this, the question is whether we will allow this type of violence to continue so close to our border, without threat, without recourse except against American citizens?

Can you wrap your head around that, then?

reply to post by sbctinfantryDiatribe, eh? We have an opportunity here for an edifying lesson on the clumsy use of hyperbole, if you'd be so kind as to explain how my post is a diatribe (the relevance being that Americans are perceived around the world as, putting it politely, full of hyperbole, which could very well be a causal factor in casual homicide). Still, since you avoided my points, I expect you'll avoid that also. Onto your own dire try then:

I referenced your claim that the Mexican Govt is responsible for this. You ignored my question. Here is your original quote:

Fact-Checker : Murder just happened across our soverign border of an American citizen. The neighboring government covered it up.

Ah, more hyperbole. We dont know if this homicide was murder, b/c we dont know the circumstances in which the man was shot. Personally, I'd like all military tribunals to be available for public scrutiny, with the operational details that could be genuinely useful to an enemy redacted, but thats just not how any govt operates. We do know that some Mexican soldiers attempted a coverup. When the Mexican Govt got involved, after pressure from the US, the soldiers were busted. There's no evidence that the govt tried to cover it up, just the opposite.

I also note your use of the word "sovereign". Forget the misspelling, what does it add to the discussion? All borders are sovereign. Added to your OP, most of which could be summed up with the phrase "Remember The Alamo!", it looks like an appeal to patriotism, which being a form of "appeal to emotion" is a logical fallacy.

Replace Mexico with North Kored and/or Iran and we would be at war today if the story were true.

Another point I addressed which rather than ignore, you evaded. You can tell us how things should be all you like: Americans cant get outraged about any of this b/c to do so would be to admit the USA's impotence.

Originally posted by Bunken Drum
reply to post by sbctinfantry

 

Diatribe, eh? We have an opportunity here for an edifying lesson on the clumsy use of hyperbole, if you'd be so kind as to explain how my post is a diatribe (the relevance being that Americans are perceived around the world as, putting it politely, full of hyperbole, which could very well be a causal factor in casual homicide). Still, since you avoided my points, I expect you'll avoid that also. Onto your own dire try then:

I referenced your claim that the Mexican Govt is responsible for this. You ignored my question. Here is your original quote:

Fact-Checker : Murder just happened across our soverign border of an American citizen. The neighboring government covered it up.

Ah, more hyperbole. We dont know if this homicide was murder, b/c we dont know the circumstances in which the man was shot. Personally, I'd like all military tribunals to be available for public scrutiny, with the operational details that could be genuinely useful to an enemy redacted, but thats just not how any govt operates. We do know that some Mexican soldiers attempted a coverup. When the Mexican Govt got involved, after pressure from the US, the soldiers were busted. There's no evidence that the govt tried to cover it up, just the opposite.

I also note your use of the word "sovereign". Forget the misspelling, what does it add to the discussion? All borders are sovereign. Added to your OP, most of which could be summed up with the phrase "Remember The Alamo!", it looks like an appeal to patriotism, which being a form of "appeal to emotion" is a logical fallacy.

Replace Mexico with North Kored and/or Iran and we would be at war today if the story were true.

Another point I addressed which rather than ignore, you evaded. You can tell us how things should be all you like: Americans cant get outraged about any of this b/c to do so would be to admit the USA's impotence.

edit on 27/12/10 by Bunken Drum because: Tags

You call it hyperbole to name what has occurred murder. How so? It was homicide when the American was killed, but became murder when false evidence was planted on the body.

You call it hyperbole to conclude the government is covering up this act. Again, how so? It was government officials that carried out the homicide, and it was government officials that planted the evidence. It is unreasonable to say that because this man is not the government, the government did not commit the act. The men charged with committing the act work for the government, and the only reason this story came to light is because a distraught mother did not believe the official story.

You demand military tribunals to be made public, but throw away the fact that there is public admittance to the cover up. That alone is the topic of conversation. We are not here to discuss what the Mexican government, military or any findings by those bodies, because they are now implicated in the very crime, and admittedly so.

You make the demand for such tribunals, and then go so far as to make the claim that it is the Mexican government that stood up to uncover the crimes in sequence. That is utter nonsense. The government did not raise any questions, the mother of the American victim did and the Mexican government was forced to investigate. The fact that it was such a poorly planned cover-up only serves the theory that it never would have been addressed if not for the mother's inquiries and pleas.

You then go on to personally attack me on the merits of my spelling, as if we are all perfect beings without fault, or should be held to such standards. In doing so, you forget the very meaning of the words. It is not an appeal to patriotism, but rather an attack on our current MSM and their biased reporting practices. It is those same practices that appeal to the false patriotism and hatemongering that got us into the wars of the middle east, the same wars that I myself have physically partaken in.

The conclusion of all of this nonsense that you have spewed is that you would rather argue semantics than read an organized assessment of the world today.

The goal and ultimate question posed by the preceding texts is to question whether organizations that claim to be unbiased and for the common man are really, at their core, the propaganda machines we all know them to be. This stands as example of such, as it only takes a brief hint of imagination to predict what would occur on the world stage had this happened to an American in Iran, or North Korea. When we stand back and take in a breath of fresh air, we start to realize that most of what we are fed that is packaged in patriotism is utter nonsensical garbage.

True American Patriotism would be to legalize the copious amounts of currently illegal drugs crossing our border in one direction, so that we may stop legislating against Americans for things like assault rifles heading in the other. We, as a nation, would rather worry about some middle east nation, instead of looking just a bit south to the chaos of a neighbor that is so easily averted through a single act of legislation. How many lives could we pat ourselves on the back then for saving? How many lives could we improve? What really is the cost of all this when tax revenue is factored against the presumption that the illegal substances will be on our streets in an unregulated and dangerous manner otherwise?

No, I'm not saying legalization is the topic of this post. I'm saying that real solutions fall on deaf ears, and fearmongering is king.

I look forward to hearing of my grammatical errors now.