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Obama Returns to End-of-Life Plan That Caused Stir

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posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 09:22 AM
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Obama Returns to End-of-Life Plan That Caused Stir


www.nytimes.com

WASHINGTON — When a proposal to encourage end-of-life planning touched off a political storm over “death panels,” Democrats dropped it from legislation to overhaul the health care system. But the Obama administration will achieve the same goal by regulation, starting Jan. 1.
(visit the link for the full news article)

NOTE: If you don't want to log in to NYTimes, just Google the title.



edit on 26-12-2010 by GirlGenius because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 09:22 AM
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So, they are sneaking it by us anyway. What a surprise!


“Advance care planning improves end-of-life care and patient and family satisfaction and reduces stress, anxiety and depression in surviving relatives,” says the administration, citing recent research.

While it's wonderful that they care about us, it would be great if they would stop treating us like children. This is something that families can decide for themselves without pressure from the medical "authorities".


www.nytimes.com
(visit the link for the full news article)

If you don't want to log in to NYTimes, just Google the title.


edit on 26-12-2010 by GirlGenius because: (no reason given)

edit on Sun Dec 26 2010 by DontTreadOnMe because: added external quote tags



posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 09:45 AM
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Originally posted by GirlGenius
This is something that families can decide for themselves without pressure from the medical "authorities".


There's nothing about medical authorities pressuring people about anything.That's how the whole "death panel" BS got started. It's about doctors giving all the options to their patients. A patient can't make an informed decision about his end-of-life if he doesn't know all the options.

I favor people knowing about advanced directives, living wills, etc., before they make their decisions. The decision is still the patient's and the family's.



posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 09:47 AM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


You don't understand. Simply wearing a white coat and offering subtle cues will influence behavior. This was amply borne out in the Milgram studies.

I am sure that the advice will be innocuous enough at first. It's only just beginning ...



posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 09:50 AM
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Originally posted by GirlGenius
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


You don't understand. Simply wearing a white coat and offering subtle cues will influence behavior. This was amply borne out in the Milgram studies.

I am sure that the advice will be innocuous enough at first. It's only just beginning ...

Are you suggesting a patient will choose to die because someone is wearing a white coat?



posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 09:55 AM
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Originally posted by GirlGenius
Simply wearing a white coat and offering subtle cues will influence behavior.


People get advice from their doctors all the time. They GO TO their doctors, specifically for advice on what might be the problem, what meds they should take, how to live a healthier life, etc. Why should this information be any different?

If people TAKE his advice based on his coat color, that's THEIR issue. You say stop treating us like children and then act like we have no minds of our own and can't make our own decisions. All the doctors are doing is giving options.



posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 09:58 AM
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reply to post by john_bmth
 


Don't be asinine. I am stating that they will give undue weight to the advice of doctors when most are following a script and pushing the hospital formulary and the procedures du jour. I have always advised my patients, friends and relatives never to make any treatment decisions in a doctor's office.



posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 09:58 AM
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Duplicate but I will add that anyone who makes an important treatment or end-of-life decision on the basis of one doctor's opinion or recommendation is a fool.

edit on 26-12-2010 by GirlGenius because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 09:59 AM
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Originally posted by GirlGenius
While it's wonderful that they care about us, it would be great if they would stop treating us like children. This is something that families can decide for themselves without pressure from the medical "authorities".


OK, I am right there with you. No need to treat us like children.


Originally posted by GirlGenius
You don't understand. Simply wearing a white coat and offering subtle cues will influence behavior. This was amply borne out in the Milgram studies.

I am sure that the advice will be innocuous enough at first. It's only just beginning ...


Wait, what??????????????

Are you saying that we all need to be treated like stupid children? Seems you cannot make up your mind. I like to think that as an adult, I can talk to a person in any color coat without the need for you to save me from being too stupid to know if it is my doctor or a homeless man in a nice coat. Thanks but you can watch your back, ignore your doctor. No need to protect me from mine. I am not a child, thanks.



posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 10:01 AM
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www.abovetopsecret.com...

Thread already running


edit on 12/26/2010 by abecedarian because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 10:03 AM
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reply to post by Sinnthia
 


Unfortunately, a significant percentage of people will fall under the sway of authority figures.



posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 10:07 AM
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reply to post by abecedarian
 


Darn - I searched on the title of the article and the keywords I could think of. They did say they allow 2 threads in different forums when I pointed out a duplicate the other day but I would just as soon have them delete this one so we can keep the discussion focused.

Really, the main point, I believe, is that it's a back door way of Obama getting his way when this issue was specifically shelved. It is typical of the deceptiveness that we are experiencing in recent administrations and needs to be called out.



posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 10:13 AM
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Originally posted by GirlGenius
reply to post by Sinnthia
 


Unfortunately, a significant percentage of people will fall under the sway of authority figures.


Apparently, much like yourself.

It's not "end of life planning" that's so controversial, but rather it's people like you blowing things like this completely out of proportion and then propagating your own fears onto others that creates the political uproar that you speak of.

You don't work for Faux News, do you?
edit on 26-12-2010 by Flatfish because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 10:16 AM
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Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
[
There's nothing about medical authorities pressuring people about anything.


That's how the whole "death panel" BS got started. It's about doctors giving all the options to their patients. A patient can't make an informed decision about his end-of-life if he doesn't know all the options.

I favor people knowing about advanced directives, living wills, etc., before they make their decisions. The decision is still the patient's and the family's.




i question your first statement..
my series of primary care VA doctors seem to Present me with options that are risky...

prescriptions which recovering Stroke victims are warned against taking
suggesting a liver biopsy when blood test numbers show little liver damage
suggesting radical Interferon treatment for a supposed Hep C condition
3 different RXs are not being renewed in a timely manner without extraordinary efforts by myself



~on top of all those issues, I was never instructed that drinking grapefruit juice was a NO-NO
because of the type of blood pressure meds i was taking ~

i researched @ MedMD to discover this faux pas by the Doctor(s), brought it to their attention,
and the next refill came with drug reaction information telling that grapefruit was a no-no



I , (CT minded as i am) harbor thoughts that this is a very casual policy of encouraging patients
to enter high risk treatments, information omission, as the first step in a casual form of 'hospice'.


The way i see it...the Doctors bosses must have issued directives, and these VA Doctors
must follow the orders or have their positions & careers in jeopardy.

So far, I have played the forgetful doofus and eluded all these (elective) *suggestions* ...
for riskier treatments...but i don't know how long the current Primary Care Dr. will be
here at the local VA Clinic and a new, aggressive, physician replaces him...and forces me to
get an unneeded biopsy- get a useless colon scan - or some new 'condition'
they will want to address aggressively
edit on 26-12-2010 by St Udio because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 10:16 AM
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Originally posted by GirlGenius
reply to post by abecedarian
 


Darn - I searched on the title of the article and the keywords I could think of. They did say they allow 2 threads in different forums when I pointed out a duplicate the other day but I would just as soon have them delete this one so we can keep the discussion focused.

Really, the main point, I believe, is that it's a back door way of Obama getting his way when this issue was specifically shelved. It is typical of the deceptiveness that we are experiencing in recent administrations and needs to be called out.


Agreed. It was not included in the bill and yet the Dem's found a way around that. Passing laws as Congress should, and are entitled to do is one way. Regulating is the Dem's and Obama's end-run around the law.



posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 10:19 AM
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Originally posted by abecedarian

Originally posted by GirlGenius
reply to post by abecedarian
 


Darn - I searched on the title of the article and the keywords I could think of. They did say they allow 2 threads in different forums when I pointed out a duplicate the other day but I would just as soon have them delete this one so we can keep the discussion focused.

Really, the main point, I believe, is that it's a back door way of Obama getting his way when this issue was specifically shelved. It is typical of the deceptiveness that we are experiencing in recent administrations and needs to be called out.


Agreed. It was not included in the bill and yet the Dem's found a way around that. Passing laws as Congress should, and are entitled to do is one way. Regulating is the Dem's and Obama's end-run around the law.


And your thread seems to be experiencing somewhat more debate than mine so maybe I should defer my thread towards yours.



posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 10:27 AM
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reply to post by Flatfish
 


My title took the name of the article as published by the New York Times, so your argument is with them. It is a rule of the ATS forum to use the exact title in the Breaking Alternative News forum.

If I'd had my druthers, the title would probably have been "Obama Does Yet Another End-Run Around the Will of the People."



posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 10:27 AM
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Originally posted by GirlGenius
reply to post by Sinnthia
 


Unfortunately, a significant percentage of people will fall under the sway of authority figures.


So you want to treat them like children?

Please make this make sense to me. How can you cry about the government treating us like children while you are doing the same exact thing on the same exact issue?

And please explain what sway it is you are so concerned with. Do you think men in white coats will be telling people to go die? Be honest now.
edit on 26-12-2010 by Sinnthia because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 10:27 AM
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Originally posted by St Udio
i question your first statement..
my series of primary care VA doctors seem to Present me with options that are risky...


If you are given all the options, then of course, some are going to be more risky than others. I have also been presented with options and even pressured to take them. But somehow, I found it within myself to resist the Dr's advice and make another decision. I don't know how I did it. Perhaps it's because I'm a grown up.




-on top of all those issues, I was never instructed that drinking grapefruit juice was a NO-NO


So, now you're complaining that your Dr. didn't give you enough information and options? Which is it? Do you want MORE information, advice and options or LESS?



I , (CT minded as i am) harbor thoughts that this is a very casual policy of encouraging patients
to enter high risk treatments as the first step in a mild form of 'hospice'.


Well, you're certainly entitled to your opinion. But it's not based on fact, rather on suspicion.

edit on 12/26/2010 by Benevolent Heretic because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 10:29 AM
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Originally posted by GirlGenius
reply to post by john_bmth
 


Don't be asinine. I am stating that they will give undue weight to the advice of doctors when most are following a script and pushing the hospital formulary and the procedures du jour. I have always advised my patients, friends and relatives never to make any treatment decisions in a doctor's office.

Really? I'm intrigued as to how you've come to this opinion. Ultimately it's the patient's choice, no amount of white attire will push them towards making a decision they don't want to make.




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