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Pics from Palestine

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posted on Jul, 11 2004 @ 09:37 AM
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Originally posted by IMMORTAL
What is happening in this area of the world is genocide.


You are talking about Ruanda, Srebrenica,...Darfur? Yes.

PA? no.



These Palestinian people will continue to fight back and protect themselves. Wouldn't you if you were in that type of situation?



The Palestinian Authority has indoctrinated their young children by teaching them to see death for Allah-Shahada as an ideal. Children grow up believing that all Muslims must kill Jews... Is it any wonder that after years of such brainwashing, suicide bombers can be recruited so easily?

If you find this hard to believe, I suggest you log on to the Palestinian Media Watch Web page to view a sample of what is being taught.

"Ask for Death!" - The Indoctrination of Palestinian Children to Seek Death for Allah Shahada


.




[edit on 11-7-2004 by Riwka]




posted on Jul, 11 2004 @ 10:00 AM
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You also need to remember that Israel military actions come as a response to terrorism, not vise-versa.

The palestinians aren't fighting because Israel has hellfire missles and because those missiles are being used to kill terrorists who murdered dozens of people. They are fighting because their government, media and education tells them to hate Israel and to kill Jews.

You might ask what led to this situation, and the answer is simple: they just want ALL the land in the area, and they are not willing (or just can't) understand that the Jews also have a right to be there.

Israeli military actions only decrease the number of terror attacks, it's a well-known fact. Less military actions = more terrorists. More food and more money given to the palestinians = more money to buy weapons and explosives. Less restrictions = easier to murder.

You usually think about "why do the Palestinians suicide?", and your logical answer is that it isbecause of Israel's actions.
What you really should ask is why Israel started doing those actions in the first place, and why they continue to do them.

I don't know what kind of parents you are, but if you think that sending your children to suicide in order to kill as many people as possible is a logical response to IDFs actions, then something must be wrong with you. During the holocaust the Jews lived is far worse conditions, and where killed by thousands each day, and yet no mother ever wished that her children would suicide in order to kill some germans.

They suicide because all of their believes are based on brain washing - starting from school. They suicide because they think its a holy thing to do, they think they will get to heaven and sit next to Muhamad or something. They think it's the most noble action in the whole world, to murder whole families just because they are Jews who live in Israel.

FredT - Well, where are the pictures of Israeli babies with a hole in their heads made from a shot from zero range? where are the pictures of pragnant Israeli women laying dead in a pool of blood? Have you ever seen the video of the lynch of two Israeli soldiers, who did a mistake while driving and accidently arrived to some palestinian town? Have you ever seen the hundreds of smiling palestinians slaughtering those two soldiers?

In Jerusalem, for example, arabs walk freely on the streats. You can see them in shops, in buses, and in every place. You don't see Israelis murdering THEM.

If Israel wanted genocide - the palestinians would be gone long before today, believe me. On the other hand, if something like those terror attacks would happen each week in the US, or some european country, they would have eliminated the threat completely - as russia is doing in chechnya (and no one even gives a damn), and whould have acted MUCH more violantly than Israel.

And FredT - from your replies I can see you know absoloutly NOTHING about REAL concentration camps. In israel there is a small museum calld "Yad VaShem", visit there, maybe you'll learn a thing or two about the holocaust, and maybe you'll become aware of the fact that the current situation in the middle east is not even close to reminding the holocaust and real concentration camps.


As for the question why other arabian countries who support the palestinians won't take them: It's simple, they just don't want them.


Oh and by the way, here is a report (from CMIP) about the education in Israel and in Palestine:


Israel:

In the Israeli Ministry of Education approved school textbooks there is a visible endeavor to promote the values of peace, improve the perception of the other side, and foster mutual respect and peaceful relations between parties to the conflict.


Palestine:

The struggle to end occupation, viewed by most international and Israeli circles as legitimate, is being used to teach a systematic rejection of Israel and to promote hatred towards it. It is disturbing that even the very young pupils of six and seven years are exposed to the rejection of mutual recognition, tolerance, respect and peace, in favor of glorifying martyrdom and Jihad. The terminology and style employed, particularly in the textbooks for higher grades, is more consistent with journalistic technique than with education.


"Genocide", yeah right...



posted on Jul, 11 2004 @ 12:55 PM
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Originally posted by Eastern_Diamondback
What those pictures say to me is that Palestinians want their children to get shot so they can take another supposed grievance to the world public.
It's apparent that you did not answer the question I gave to you in my last post. I'll assume you are answering as a 'yes' by your silence.

Uh huh, so they can get a grievance. Well, doesn't that tell you then that these people are in need of some kind of help from the International Community?

Yes, you make a big judgement call on what these people are doing in response to what is happening to them. You are not there, you did not grow up in this area of the world, as I see you are from the USA. Maybe you need to walk a mile in a Palestinian's shoes to understand what is going on there. I don't know.

Why don't you tell me what is wrong with these pictures:









And maybe this is why you are not responding to the grievances of the Palestinian people:





posted on Jul, 11 2004 @ 03:28 PM
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It's apparent that you did not answer the question I gave to you in my last post. I'll assume you are answering as a 'yes' by your silence.

"What is happening in this area of the world is genocide. These Palestinian people will continue to fight back and protect themselves. Wouldn't you if you were in that type of situation?"


The only question you asked was the last sentence above. No, I would not let my children be used as pawns for any fighting. Children do not belong on this battlefield.


Uh huh, so they can get a grievance. Well, doesn't that tell you then that these people are in need of some kind of help from the International Community?


How does that justify allowing children to stand behind gunmen engaging Israeli soldiers?


Yes, you make a big judgement call on what these people are doing in response to what is happening to them. You are not there, you did not grow up in this area of the world, as I see you are from the USA. Maybe you need to walk a mile in a Palestinian's shoes to understand what is going on there. I don't know.


Must you inhale mustard gas to know it can kill you? I don't see why saying that children being used in such a manner is wrong is such a controversial idea.


Why don't you tell me what is wrong with these pictures:


1. Sharon's face isn't painted on the walls.
2. Those people shouldn't be harrassing the woman (That's the difference between you and me; I don't justify wrong actions of one side by pointing out the wrongdoings of another)
3. The soldier isn't actually pointing his gun at the kid (just look at the pic closely).
4. The Israelis don't typically bulldoze houses unless they were used by Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Al-Aqsa Brigades, or PFLP for conducting attacks.
5. All the Jewish control and manipulation of American institutions doesn't change what the Palestinians themselves show.

If you want to know what I think about Israel/Palestine, I'll tell you. Israel should unilaterally withdraw from the West Bank and Gaza (I'm not going to play semantic games). They should say to Jewish settlers there that they can come live in Israel, and if they choose not to, they are on their own and must protect themselves. The wall should be built, but at the 1967 borders. Palestinians have no inherent right to enter Israel. No foreigner has any right to enter a nation that does not want them (Mexico, are you listening?). If the Palestinians should continue their terrorist attacks on the Israelis despite the complete withdrawal, then they should be destroyed. Further attacks despite complete withdrawal will only prove the contention that the Palestinians do not recognize Israel's right to exist and will stop at nothing less than driving them into the sea. The Palestinians can go live in a neighboring Arab country. And if these Arab countries do not stop the terrorism by the Palestinians, then they too should be attacked by Israel.



posted on Jul, 12 2004 @ 08:23 AM
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Originally posted by Eastern_Diamondback



ok I got a link of video's here www.informationclearinghouse.info...

tho these vids were made for 56k I feel they say more then I can on the issue of morallity then I can


Wow, I'm convinced now. Israel must be destroyed at all costs. Men, women, children, dogs, and cats are all fair game now. Where can I sign up to strap a bomb to myself and walk into a coffee shop to blow myself and a couple dozen other people up?

I also find it interesting that I heard in one of the videos an Israeli apologize for something that went wrong. When was the last time you heard that from a Palestinian?

oh yeah he looked real sorry and their actions that continue today speak louder then words.

ignoring your high school style sarcasm you asked for me to post the link so I did, and it proves the jewish government is also imoral which was my point, does it make suicide boming right? no.

killing the people who are just trying to live a life like anyone else isnt going to stop the bombings its just going to perpetuate it.



posted on Jul, 12 2004 @ 08:31 AM
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first thread i see for the day, and it amazes me how people can be critical of parents that you don't see

did it ever occur to anyone that perhaps these Palestinian children you see with the fighters have no parents? Or their father is dead and their mother no longer can control the anger in them to fight against the people who bulldoze their houses, kill their fathers, etc, with high tech weapons and guns

come on people, get off your freaking high horses and admit that two wrongs never make a right. If you cannot realize by now that both sides Israelis and Palestinians have to share the full blame for how they live, then there is just something wrong with your thinking.



posted on Jul, 12 2004 @ 01:13 PM
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I guess what we can all agree on is that, both Israel and Palestine have a right to exist, and neither has the right to go around killing the other's civilians. Both sides are going to have to give and take before an actual peace is found.

On a tangent subject, I have no problem at all with the Wall that Israel is building between themselves and Palestine... the less contact between Israel and Palestine, the better, IMO! But, a few conditions must be kept in mind:

1. The Wall must be built on the "Green Line" of 1967. The Northern part of the wall has come close to this, but the plans I've seen online for the southern part of the wall actually goes deep into the West Bank. I fault Israel here not for the Wall itself, but for not following the "Green Line" in its plans to build it. (Hopefully US pressure will change this.)


2. This wall, therefore, must cut Jerusalem in half. The State of Israel will have West Jersusalem as its capital; the State of Palestine will have East Jersulalem as its capital.

3. Palestine has no economy, and hasn't had one since 1967. I lay the blame on the Palestinian authority here -- they don't want Palestine to have an economy, so that the Palestinians can continue to be unemployed, and thus poor, uneducated, and desperate. Then they can go say that "The Palestinians are poor, uneducated, and desperate!" when they go gripe to the UN.
A Palestinian nation must develop its own economy, one that has nothing to do with Israel at all -- and the rest of the Arab world, especially Jordan, should allow Palestinians access to their countries for work. Refusal to do this only adds fuel to the fire.

As for the Gaza Strip... I'm still pondering how to handle that area. Any ideas?



posted on Jul, 12 2004 @ 03:13 PM
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Originally posted by Eastern_Diamondback
Children do not belong on this battlefield.
American families are sending their children, as well, into the Bush regime wars. I'm sure that there are families in America who are worried everyday for their children fighting in Iraq.


Must you inhale mustard gas to know it can kill you?

I agree with your question.

The Palestinian people are using unconventional methods of warfare. It is only because, in my opinion, they don't have access to conventional methods of warfare: tanks, guided missiles, etc. I'm not saying they'd use them if they had them, but most likey they would not strap young kids if they had the same amount of firepower as Israel.

As for the wall, metaphorically, it has Ariel's face written all over it. It is racist, it is a new Berlin Wall, and the International Court of Justice ruled against it. In a time when Humanity is in need of some co-operation with each other, this wall is only setting an example of how divided people remain with each other.

Link



posted on Jul, 12 2004 @ 03:25 PM
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I view this problem as gang related. The PLO, Palestinian Authority and Israle Governmnet are all independent gangs. They all have there own agenda and no amount of verbage is going to change there beliefs and attitudes about the current situation. What can be done about gangs?
From recent actions of the Israelis I thing they are going about systematically taking out key leaders of the PLO gang. Gangs without leaders usually end up disorganized and eventually disband. Not a bad start for ending some of the violence.
Now the challenge is to bring the larger of the three gangs together for a political solution. I believe this is possible as long as you keep the violent gang under control.



posted on Jul, 12 2004 @ 03:31 PM
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Originally posted by flycatch
I believe this is possible as long as you keep the violent gang under control.
That's right. There are gangs on both sides. I've read in many places how Israel commits terrorist attacks against its own people. It is gang warfare, but a conflict that can only be resolved by co-operation at the highest level of Government.



posted on Jul, 12 2004 @ 03:34 PM
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I thought Israel was a republic? Israel has an Exectutive Branch (President & Prime Minister), Legislative Branch (their Parliment, called 'The Knesset', whose members are popularly elected to office), and Judicial Branch (a Supreme Court). It's basically the UK model of democracy...

Right now, there are only four republics in the Arab world (Turkey and Morrocco; and Iraq and Afghanistan, which are, of course, in their infancy) that I know of. Pakistan was once a republic, but became a dictatorship in 1998. All the other nations in the Arab world are either monarchies, religious states (where the church is the state, like in Iran and in Afghanistan under the Taliban...), or outright dicatorships (like Iraq under Saddam Huessien was)...

But you're right about the PLO; they're more like the mafia than a government...
...they only care about lining their pockets with money and screaming "Death to Israel!" while the Palestinians under the PLO's control suffer...



posted on Jul, 12 2004 @ 03:49 PM
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Did anyone notice the guy in the all baby blue jump suit that is strattleing the RPG launcher (I think its a RPG)!



posted on Jul, 12 2004 @ 03:57 PM
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How do they say it?

"The fittest survive!"

Well looks like Israel got Palistine where it hurts so I guess it is Israelis that got the pass to have their own country on this earth.

Still I cant see how Palistine is needed in the world....

Palistine as I see are just a bunch of: barbaric, 3000B.C., people.

They have no tech or anything else that can help someone around them.

Israel on the other hand has tech with which it shares with US and other countries. Also Israel also tranis soldiers from around the world because they are one of the best in combat. Think of what Israel can do with Palistine in their hands. It can become a regional power that fights terrorists.

Out,
Russian



posted on Jul, 12 2004 @ 03:57 PM
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Originally posted by HumptyDumpty
Did anyone notice the guy in the all baby blue jump suit that is strattleing the RPG launcher (I think its a RPG)!


Thats a home made rocket launcher.

Out,
Russian



posted on Jul, 12 2004 @ 04:09 PM
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Well I guess thats the games they play over there those Palestinians..."Ride the rocket!"

Thats guy has alot of trust in his fellow militant for one to take proper aim, and for two to even be near his buddys "home made" rocket launcher.



posted on Jul, 12 2004 @ 04:12 PM
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Originally posted by HumptyDumpty
Well I guess thats the games they play over there those Palestinians..."Ride the rocket!"

Thats guy has alot of trust in his fellow militant for one to take proper aim, and for two to even be near his buddys "home made" rocket launcher.


What do they call that?

As i remember....

Mind Less.

Out,
Russian



posted on Jul, 12 2004 @ 04:27 PM
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American families are sending their children, as well, into the Bush regime wars. I'm sure that there are families in America who are worried everyday for their children fighting in Iraq.


I've yet to meet an American in the military who was forced into joining the military. I've also yet to meet any American under 17 years old in the military.


Must you inhale mustard gas to know it can kill you?
I agree with your question.


I should hope so.


The Palestinian people are using unconventional methods of warfare. It is only because, in my opinion, they don't have access to conventional methods of warfare: tanks, guided missiles, etc. I'm not saying they'd use them if they had them, but most likey they would not strap young kids if they had the same amount of firepower as Israel.


They use suicide bombers because they scare the hell out of people. It's psychological. On a tactical and strategic level the suicide bombings are practically worthless.

Granted this is hypothetical, but if Hamas and Islamic Jihad and Al-Aqsa possessed the range of weapons that Israel had, and Israel had the same weapons the Palestinians now have, do you honestly think Israel would exist anymore?


As for the wall, metaphorically, it has Ariel's face written all over it.


Yeah, I got that much.


It is racist,


Is anything in the world not racist according to people like you, other than acts committed by certified pet minorities?


it is a new Berlin Wall, and the International Court of Justice ruled against it.


Excuse me, this wall and the Berlin Wall served completely different purposes. This wall is to keep people who have no right to enter out. The Berlin Wall was built to keep people who wanted to leave East Berlin in.



In a time when Humanity is in need of some co-operation with each other, this wall is only setting an example of how divided people remain with each other.


People are divided by their very nature. We are not now, never have been, nor ever should be one united species. It's against our biology.



Death to the WWP



posted on Jul, 12 2004 @ 04:28 PM
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Why oh why do people insist on using badly manipulated pictures to prove a point. I think that happens when the person doesn't have a point...

Immortal, your first picture is a POLITICAL DRAWING. Last time I checked cartoons are cartoons regardless of whether they are done by computer or by hand. The fact that you can use a cartoon as evidence of Israeli misdeeds is damn near the funniest thing I've seen all day.

Your second picture definitely merits further investigation but I wonder how a woman can be kicked and have her head pulled all the while not moving an inch, not buckling where the person is kicking her and not moving her head back at all in response to being pulled. Your photograph must have been snapped in the milisecond before those unavoidable physical reactions occur.

Your third picture is amusing at best. Firstly, if you look at the family's eyes they are looking out far further than the soldier. In fact they appear to be looking a bit over his head. Secondly have you ever used a gun? I was previously unaware that a soldier would use his scope to aim a machine gun at a child 2 feet away. That is interesting as well. Actually if you follow the angle ever more properly you'll find the gun aimed at the black garbage bag. Which again from 2 feet away is definitely a target a soldier is going to aim for. Yes friends let me tell you, nothing spells safety like aiming at a target 1 foot high from the ground at a 2 foot distance with an automatic weapon. And the floating Sharon head adds to the "realistic" feel of the picture. Gosh, what's photoshop anyways?

Thanks for the good material. Keep your arguments more substantive and we won't experience such things.

As a side note if the picture with the woman being accosted is in fact real then it's obvious that this isn't proper but I really wouldn't use that as an example for what the Palestinians are going through since the number of Palestinians attacked by Israeli civilians is less than one one thousandth of the amount of Israelis attacked by Palestinian civilians. EDIT: This is not referring to suicide bombings by Militants or attacks by IDF, this is referring strictly to civilian v. civilian incidents which don't generally merit much attention.

When I was in Israel I saw plenty of Palestinians walking through Israeli areas. I did not see the opposite, in fact when I took a tour I was given a bulletproof vest to go into one small Palestinian area with. I guess they don't much like American visitors. The only place that welcome our assembly was the "Arab Shuk" marketplace inside the old city of Jerusalem which was comprised of the friendliest Palestinian citizens I encountered in my entire adventure.

Don't use "you're american you don't know what it's like" with me. I've actually physically been there, and not on vacation. I interacted with both groups in both areas. I'd say it's safe to assume you haven't.

[edit on 7-12-2004 by Djarums]



posted on Jul, 12 2004 @ 04:44 PM
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Originally posted by worldwatcher
first thread i see for the day, and it amazes me how people can be critical of parents that you don't see

did it ever occur to anyone that perhaps these Palestinian children you see with the fighters have no parents? Or their father is dead and their mother no longer can control the anger in them to fight against the people who bulldoze their houses, kill their fathers, etc, with high tech weapons and guns


Unless these kids are homeless orphans wandering the streets, somebody is raising them.

Did it ever occurr to you that standing behind gunmen doesn't suggest the kind of anger you postulate?


come on people, get off your freaking high horses and admit that two wrongs never make a right. If you cannot realize by now that both sides Israelis and Palestinians have to share the full blame for how they live, then there is just something wrong with your thinking.


One side deserves a lot more blame than the other. Hint: There's no blue on their flag.



posted on Jul, 12 2004 @ 04:47 PM
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If you cannot realize by now that both sides Israelis and Palestinians have to share the full blame for how they live, then there is just something wrong with your thinking.



I agree wholeheartedly which is why it makes me nauseous when someone with an active imagination and an agenda uses badly "created" photographs to set the blame squarely on one side. Very upsetting...



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