Meet the Real Star of Bethlehem

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler


The Bible tells us that Mary and Joseph were in Bethlehem to take part in the Roman Census that had been decreed but the these Censuses were conducted in 6 B.C. and 8 AD not the year 0, when Jesus was alleged to have been born.

The Census of Quirinius refers to the enrollment of the Roman Provinces of Syria and Iudaea for tax purposes taken in AD 6/7 during the reign of the Roman Emperor Augustus (27 BC - AD 14), when Publius Sulpicius Quirinius was appointed governor of Syria, after the banishment of Herod Archelaus and the imposition of direct Roman rule on what became Iudaea Province (the conglomeration of Samaria, Judea proper, and Idumea).[1] An account of the census was given by the 1st century historian Josephus,[2] who associated it with the beginning of a resistance movement that he called the Zealots. The census provoked revolt because censuses are forbidden under Jewish law.[citation needed]

en.wikipedia.org...

from an old thread of mine, (with very slight edit):

Originally posted by Alethea

Census in the Bible Stories

Whether or not these stories are actually "true" is moot. The point is that some of these stories could contain hidden messages that we should not overlook.

Were Mary and Joseph actually "on the run" from the census?

Biblical scholars have found the account of Luke 2:1-7 very problematic for several reasons. The date of King Herod's reign and the time frame of the census shows a discrepancy of a few years.

But the most intriguing aspect of the account, is that the Wolves tell the story of Mary and Joseph having to travel miles to "report" themselves to the King's officials. This is just not even practical.

How could any kingdom require it's residents to travel miles to report for taking a census? Can you imagine the repercussions of this?

If everyone had to leave their homes, would it not make the town vunerable for thieves and vandals? Who would care for their livestock and crops? How could poor peasants endure the cost of such a journey? And what of those who are sick and disabled? How could they be expected to personally report to the king's men? And what of those who defy the order or had no money to pay required taxes? All of these scenerios depict a very unrealistic proposition, does it not?

Religious leaders and pseudo-scholars have upheld the ridiculousness of this incongruent story. However, "research has shown that it was not the practice in Roman censuses to require people to return to their ancestral homes. [19]"

"The people of Herod's kingdom were not directly taxed by the empire; thus, a census and taxation during Herod's rule, if ordered and administered by imperial officials, would be unprecedented." (Cenus of Quirinius)

...

When people allow the Wolves to read the bedtime stories to them, it is a totally different meaning than what historical reality uncovers.

I find it very strange that Bruegel depicts such a census taking place in winter. Was this to perhaps show the ridiculousness of such an improbability? Or was he simply pandering to the church?


The Census at Bethlehem
Bruegel, Pieter the Elder
1566

Originally posted by redbarron626

It has long been suggested that the "Star" was a comet.

Well, yes indeed! All Roads do Lead right back to Rome!

The Temple of Caesar was the only temple to be entirely dedicated to the cult of a Comet (Star)[1] The Comet (Star), upon its appearance some time after Caesar's murder (44 BC), was considered to be the soul of the deified Julius Caesar and the symbol of the "new birth" of Augustus as the unique Roman Ruler and Emperor. Here the account by Pliny with parts of a public speech delivered by Augustus about the Comet, his father Caesar[3] and his own destiny:

The only place in the whole world where a comet is the object of worship is a temple at Rome. [...] His late Majesty Augustus had deemed this comet very propitious to himself; as it had appeared not [...] long after the decease of his father Caesar. [...] People believed that this star signified the soul of Caesar received among the spirits of the immortal gods.[1]

In Greek and Roman culture Comet is an adjective determining the distinctive characteristic of a special star. So "Comet Star" means "Long-Haired Star", and it was represented this way on coins and monuments.

The "Divine Star" was represented and worshiped on coins and probably in the Temple itself, as a "Comet (Star)" or as a "simple Star": the simple Star has been used as a general symbol of Divinity since 44 BC...

en.wikipedia.org...

The Census part remains a very interesting discrepency in the whole story.

In many ways though as you pointed out all the reasons it would have been impracticle for people to have to return to their home towns to be counted, it might be meant to signify the power of Rome.

No matter how stupid or demanding a kind of do it or else type of edict.

Of course there is no telling if approached by a census taker and it turned out you weren't on the rolls for that town and ought to have been some place else just what might happen to you.

I think it would also help to know if slaves were directly counted in the census. In other words slave owners might have had to travel back to their places of birth, but they might have very well been able to leave their household slaves at home to guard their houses, since the household slaves might have come from far from where the censuses were taking place.

The Census in Roman times seems to be largely about Taxes, and it's doubtful slaves were directly taxed as other than property of their Masters.

Registration rolls likely showed how many slaves each individual owned if they did own slaves. So a direct count might not have been needed of the slaves per say as a result of this as it would have behooved the Masters to register all their slaves incase they ran away or were otherwise stolen.

Some interesting posts Alethea thanks for joining in.

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler


I think it would also help to know if slaves were directly counted in the census. In other words slave owners might have had to travel back to their places of birth, but they might have very well been able to leave their household slaves at home to guard their houses, since the household slaves might have come from far from where the censuses were taking place.

Slaves? In Jerusalem? Are you saying that Jesus might have had a maid?

Originally posted by Alethea

Originally posted by ProtoplasmicTraveler


I think it would also help to know if slaves were directly counted in the census. In other words slave owners might have had to travel back to their places of birth, but they might have very well been able to leave their household slaves at home to guard their houses, since the household slaves might have come from far from where the censuses were taking place.

Slaves? In Jerusalem? Are you saying that Jesus might have had a maid?

Clearly you have not watched Juddah Ben Hur or read the Hebrew Ten Commandments where God specifically outlines to the Jews how their own Slaves are to be treated.

Now don't ask me how crossing the dessert from Egypt where they were supposedly all slaves they managed to pick up some on the way, but clearly three of the Hebrew Ten Commandments make specific mentions of how slaves are to be treated.

So yes there were slaves \.

reply to post by quantum_flux


haha... you can follow stars and or the moon. your route will gradually bend right, or left, but you'll still get somewhere..

now if ya don't mind, I gotta follow this star to my sons birth. oh christmas

Hi..your thread got me to thinking and looking for something I had read years ago by someone I had forgotten ..I think I may have found the author I was looking for from this article by a different author ..This author seems to have the best description I have read on the subject ....snip..Although no one else I know who is teaching about the celestial sign of Revelation 12:1 varies from Dr. Martin's conclusion, there are those who have, like myself, determined that 2 BC is the correct year and september 29 the day by the reckoning of the Western calendar. Three of note are Stephen E. Jones, Chuck Missler and Stewart Best. Another gentleman, a physicist by the name of John Zajac has recently determined the same by close examination of the Great Pyramid at Giza. (See www.europa.com...) his conclusion about the date of our Lord's crucifixion is in agreement with what I have determined by correlating celestial and scriptural revelation. a Web page you can read online with some historical references that point to September 29, 2 BC as the day of our Lords' birth is 144000.net...

link www.theopenscroll.com... it is a very intresting read ...peace

reply to post by the2ofusr1


Thanks for thinking of the thread and remember that to add. Merry Christmas to by the way.

Imagine what the world would be like if so many of these things we are all curious about had been better and more definitavely documented at the times they occured.

How many authors would have never had something to write about then.

Thanks my friend.

Excellent thread Proto...

Christmas is simply a holiday that is truly celebrated by the initiates, but yet it is celebrated exoterically by the masses.

And the funnny thing about this Christams hooplah concerns its dubious history, which is oh so commonly known!
Biblical scolars will tell you that the birth and the time frame for its happening are simply impossible during the time of the winter soltice of that year, you know, The supposed year ZERO..
This goes to show just how easily persuaded the masses are.

One of the most interesting aspects of the Torah, which forms the basis for the 3 Abrahamic faiths, is that it was ordained by Antaxerxes as the holy book of Jews to be taught to them by Ezra during their excile in Babylon.

A Persian ordaining the Jewish Torah as Holy.
How Ironic!!!

reply to post by Josephus23

One thing that I find very fascinating is how heavily Persia has factored into the history of the Western World and how important it remains today to the Western World.

Specifically this whole fear of Iran developing Nuclear Weapons.

Wow I think the masses might be content to imagine thats the only thing behind it all, that and Islam it is interesting to note that a huge amount of the anti-Iran propaganda is funded by the Persian Prince the late Shah's son.

Even though he has no nation his wealth and title allows him to be somewhat of a signifigant player on the World Stage.

I think if you or I were to devote millions of our own money to destabalizing a foreign government our own might take exception to that.

I think a lot of these places including Iraq, Syria, Egypt, Iran hold ancient information that very few people would know how to make heads or tails of if they saw it, but people well studied in the fields of ancient languages and religions would find it very signifigant.

Though it's only speculation Persia still seems to hold some power that is considered a 'threat' to the Western World beyond just rushing in and bombing a few nuclear reactors that has both Israel and the U.S. and England concerned.

What ever that is it certainly isn't there conventional military forces, or Western reluctance to engage in costly wars.

The mysteries abound.

Thanks for posting my friend.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


I totally and 100 percent agree with all of this Proto.

Before I go any further, I want to state that this is speculation based upon inductive reasoning.

Let's examine the, "go to Iraq for oil" stragey.
Honestly, it' petty stupid. Saudi Arablia has 25 % of the world's known oil reserves and oil makes the modern world go round.
"The Holy Land" has something that people want. Period.

I don't know if it's what the Templars found.
I don't know it it's what is being "excavated" at Temple of the Mount (Al-Aqsa Mosque), but I know that something way more is at stake here than just land and posturing.

Agreed my friend
Thanks fot the insight.
Long time no Proto.

reply to post by Josephus23


There were definately a lot of artifacts in Iraq that they were after, the Museum was the first to fall and get looted, and many of the archeological sites were destroyed when we made them military outposts for U.S. Soldiers.

However never underestimate the economics of oil.

Oil did factor heavily in it but in a way most people wouldn't have assumed.

The reason right after the First Persian Gulf War, an Embargo was declared on Iraq and it was only allowed to sell a limited amount of oil in the 'Oil for Food' program is Iraq had so much oil (about 30% of the world's reserves) it could have waged an economic war with oil by dumping unlimited amounts cheaply on the market.

The oil cartel conspires with Israel and Opec to keep the price of oil artificially high by setting production caps and manipulating political situations to make it seem like volatile things like war and the Arab/Israel conflict could interupt supply.

But the truth is if Iraq wanted to get even for the First Persian Gulf War it could have dumped oil all day long on the spot market for a 1.00 a barrel.

Not only would this have bankrupted Exxon, Chevron, Shell, BP and others, it would have had a drastic impact on tax revenue for the states, that tax gasoline heavily at the pump.

It would have had a terrible impact on the banks as fewer and fewer consumers would have needed so much credit card credit because they wouldn't have been spending 10 to 25% of their take home pay on gas and heating and cooking oil and wouldn't be so inclined to borrow.

It could have had a significant impact on corporate wages too, as well guess what if gasoline is 12cents a gallon, yeah you can take this job and shove it and I will drive the 100 miles each way to a company that pays me 5.00 more an hour because I come out ahead with the cheap cost of gas.

Iraq became a huge liability having that much oil and a strong authoritarian leader who could have used it for revenge.

Don't think he wouldn't have, gasoline was pennies a gallon in Saddam Hussein's Iraq.

Oil factored in heavily to Russia at the time too as it was transforming to democracy and it's own oil exports would have been worthless in such a scenario and communism might have roared right back.

Oil factors heavily into China, making China dependent on Oil makes China a slave to who ever controls the oil and that ain't China!

Conversely this is a huge part of the problem with Hugo Chavez.

Fortunately the Venezualan Crude is so heavy there are very few refinaries that can process it and most of them are in the U.S., but if Venezuala had light sweet crude anyone could refine easily, oh would that be a whole different story.

When you get right down to it, oil is a tax, that's what it's been set up to be, and price fixing it is of paramount importance.

Never understimate the power of oil, but yes, there were and are things in Iraq that a lot of people (the Vatican, Israel, Islam itself) would like to never have see the light of day.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Again...

You are 100% percent on the money with your description of oil and the impact that it has on the entire world and its resulting economy, both microscopic and macroscopic, as a whole.

We literally live both day in and day out balanced on the razor's edge of the the oil trade.
Everyone.
Not one person is either bold, arrogant, or stupid enough to see themselves as above or immune to this issue, expect possibly those who feel accepted as the special chosen few.
(And they are delusional as all get out through centuries of inbreeding)

The technology available to make this world a living utopia has been and continues to be suppressed for untold number of years and "reasons of international importance", and contrary to most official deflections, it has not been by either accident or incompetence that these patents and information has "supposedly" been lost or misplaced, as most uncritical minds would pass on such a meme of tripe.

An event of immense importance for the lives of the plebes is close at hand.
The smell is in the air.

I would love to meet you in person and have your brain
You are right he wasn't born in December but on March 20th, almost 2 hours before sunrise.

If i were to guess, I would put Yeshua's birth at October 31st. After moving Christ's birth to inculturate the pagans, the catholic church being the way it is, they probably decided what better way for people to "celebrate" the real birthday of the Messiah than a holiday dedicated to the dead.

reply to post by ProtoplasmicTraveler


Dear Proto,
Wonderful thread which I just fell upon. Thanks again for such a well written summary.

I knew most of this already my friend, but it's nice to have the gaps filled in.

Be well,
T

reply to post by JohnSmith880


There are some interesting threads on phonetics here on ATS that get into these things.

You might want to try a ATS search using phonetics as a key word and see what you come up, so you can enjoy what some other members have shared on the subject.

If memory serves there are some intriquing threads on that subject.

Thanks for posting.