Why some people want to live in a country but don't want to pay their taxes?

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux

No, I never tell people to shut up, that's what he said.

Your post is weird, look here.

Originally posted by Jean Paul Zodeaux
Everyone, and I mean everyone, should pay the taxes they owe, which means the taxes they are liable for.

Precisely. That's what I said in my original post.
But then

Of course, it is highly unlikely, and I means odds that run impossible to one, that the O.P. has any legal authority what-so-ever to assess any persons liability other than his own. When the O.P. makes the bold claims that "you should pay your taxes", he is either in full agreement with what I began this post with, or is in complete disagreement with this post and is arrogantly and preeningly granting himself authority he does not legally possess.
Which is it, O.P.? Since you have disingenuously created a post that pointedly avoids naming the so called "Personal Income Tax" as the tax you claim "you should pay", what taxes are you talking about? Surely you are not talking about that sales taxes that are collected upon the sale of an item. What taxes are you assessing all the people you presume to lecture, and by what legal authority do you claim to have the power to access their liability?

After you said everyone should pay their taxes just like what I said then suddenly you go bipolar on me then talk about personal income tax and sales tax or consumption tax or whatever. It's not a bold claim, it's a statement just like your own statement that everyone should pay the taxes they owe, liable and so on.

Originally posted by jlafleur02
I don't mind paying taxes. I just don't think I have to pay over half my salary in taxes.

I completely agree.

I hate the concept of this topic. It should be changed.

Just like I hate the concept of a monetary system. It should be changed.

reply to post by Jazzyguy


Well, here is the problem. No matter how much you pay, you never own anything and can never truly rest you're head. Unavoidable taxes creates a big work prison where you are not allowed to be self sufficient.

Okay Peeples, I've come across many threads about this issue-"TAXES, Legal or Not". I am not claiming to be an authorative on this subject but have researched and acquired the knowledge to know more than the majority.

It's simple in one fact that if you signed a W-4 form or the like, you have voluntarally(sp?) agreed to having your monies taken from you. Another fact, if you take atvantage of ANY government program, be it welfare, foodstamps, SS benifit, unemployment (the root of this word is'key'), etc.,you again signed a 'contract' to relinquist your assets.

A tax on income is not economically or legally a tax on its source." However, wages, salaries, commissions, and tips (sources) are considered to be "income" for an individual when he lists them as "income" on an IRS tax return form. When he signs the tax form under penalty of perjury, he has made a voluntary oath that his wages, salary, commissions, and tips listed on the return are "income" and that he is subject to the tax."

Now I agree that our Public Services should be paid by a tax, so a portion of my generosity is to be expected for said services. Remember that the Government IS NOT a buisness for profit thus the deficit but their operating cost keeps getting more and more. Hmmm...why is that?

If you're interested in actually knowing a little bit about this instead of " I heard..." go to this link-


freeyourmindonline.net...

VICTORY TAX
"The REAL truth about federal income tax & why income tax was started"


Now if that stimulated you (oh baby, oh baby, oh.. )

usa-the-republic.com...

www.taxhistory.com...


www.constitution.org...

Taxation is a form of violence. The government, and every single person who supports it, is basically putting a gun to my head and forcing me to pay up. If I don't, I'll be harrassed, fined, and eventually incarcerated where I'll be subjected to direct violence of all sorts.

If I don't agree with what the government spends its money on, I shouldn't be forced to pay for it. But you're going to put a gun to my head because I disagree with you and won't cooperate? That is a violent act. Violence is irrational--it doesn't solve any problems (except in self-defense). That is what is wrong with taxation.

Why don't you go do what you're going to do, and I'll go do what I'm going to do. As long as no one gets hurt--and I guarantee you it won't be me doing any hurting--why do you care if I pay taxes or not? If you want all these government "services"... fine. YOU pay for them. I don't use them and find them totally unnecessary.

There is no "social contract" simply by virtue of my being born. I didn't agree to any of this. I'd leave, but where would I go? There is no place on Earth free from the shackles of the state (people who legitimize their authority through violence). I was born into a system from which there is no escape, and I for one would appreciate it if you left me alone with your "taxes". I'll leave you alone. Are you willing to reciprocate, or are you going to continue supporting the thugs with the guns?

Tax is a racket, government is nothing but a Pimp. In almost any country to own land you must pay racket to the Pimp or your land will be wreck't, if not by him then by some other Pimp. Sometimes, another Pimp will come to your land and wreck it just to prove a point - you better watch it. That's how the world runs. Armies are nothing but Pimp's thugs, they make their assets pay the racket or otherwise... The UN is a Mafia, a world organisation of Pimps - Mafia lord is usually the biggest and strongest Pimp, the one with biggest fur coat and weirdest looking hat, a role model for all other Pimps. Therefore if you want to live somewhere but don't want no Pimp on your head you're in for some big trouble mister. But its fine like this, imagine what would happen if we had Pimps letting the leash off of us? It would be chaos!

The OP is correct. People should pay the tax their government levies on them. If you must, grudgingly pay it while advocating that the tax code be changed, but pay it all the same.

Tax on PROPERTY, is SLAVERY.

What is PROPERTY?

Property can be defined as anything that one possesses. Does one possess real estate if they are required to continually pay a tax on it? No, they are only leasing that property. Hence only in some states does property ownership actually occur in regards to real estate and houses. (in the US)

Does one own a vehicle if they are required to pay registration for it? Does one actually OWN the vehicle? Or do they just own the TITLE of the vehicle which one is required to pay a yearly usury fee to be allowed a contractual usage of that vehicle upon public roads. Hell, you even have to license (another contractual obligation) yourself to become a "driver" or an "operator" of the "motor vehicle" which you do not even own.

Does one own their very self? If ones self is defined as what one does personally or that one exists, does this mean when you contractually agree with someone to provide them labor, for an exchange of currency, does that make you no longer owner of your own self? It would seem the government thinks so. It would seem the OP thinks that the government owns all citizens.

Why else would he be telling everyone to pay the king his due percentage of Property and Labor?

You must believe that when born into the world you have an obligation to give your betters a percentage of your life. Well to some of us, do not believe we are slave or indentured servants.

We may believe that every man, woman or child has the GOD given right to personal Responsibility and Personal Property, including the very ownership of our own lives, let alone our own destiny.

Samuel Adams said it best "If ye love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen.”

Cry Freedom!

Originally posted by jimmyx

Originally posted by wcitizen

Originally posted by Jazzyguy
To run a country is not free, things cost money (even for just printing money). It's like a gigantic hotel and a hospital (since it has social responsibilites), it has facilities, it might be 5 stars, it might 3 stars, and their rates vary, but if you want to stay there, you should pay your taxes.

If you have a problem with the tax rates or their tax structure, you have every right to complain, but you still have to fulfill your obligation as a citizen, otherwise you're just a freeloader.

You still think your taxes are what pays for the infrastructure, etc, of the country? Think again! The taxes go straight into the pockets of the private banksters as interest on the loans made to the country. The right to create money was usurped by the private banksters in 1913, previously it was the sole right of the government. Taxation was around 1% before the banksters' coup.

You need to do some research on this.

if YOU do some research on WHY the government does not handle the actual creation and management of the U.S. monetary system, you will see that in the beginning when the U.S. handled it's own money, that there was periods of booms and busts. these booms and bust caused havoc across the income spectrum, from the guy that cleaned out barns to the businessman that tried to sell his goods.
the problem, and the solution to it, like everything else is the regulation of power. corruption lies in all forms of government, simply by the power that comes with it.
having said that, i think there were and are honest people that have gone into government serivce and have either been bribed, or if that didn't worked threatened with bodily harm.

And who do you think had a hand in creating the previous booms and busts? Problem, reaction, solution.

Originally posted by jimmyx

Originally posted by wcitizen

Originally posted by Jazzyguy
To run a country is not free, things cost money (even for just printing money). It's like a gigantic hotel and a hospital (since it has social responsibilites), it has facilities, it might be 5 stars, it might 3 stars, and their rates vary, but if you want to stay there, you should pay your taxes.

If you have a problem with the tax rates or their tax structure, you have every right to complain, but you still have to fulfill your obligation as a citizen, otherwise you're just a freeloader.

You still think your taxes are what pays for the infrastructure, etc, of the country? Think again! The taxes go straight into the pockets of the private banksters as interest on the loans made to the country. The right to create money was usurped by the private banksters in 1913, previously it was the sole right of the government. Taxation was around 1% before the banksters' coup.

You need to do some research on this.

if YOU do some research on WHY the government does not handle the actual creation and management of the U.S. monetary system, you will see that in the beginning when the U.S. handled it's own money, that there was periods of booms and busts. these booms and bust caused havoc across the income spectrum, from the guy that cleaned out barns to the businessman that tried to sell his goods.
the problem, and the solution to it, like everything else is the regulation of power. corruption lies in all forms of government, simply by the power that comes with it.
having said that, i think there were and are honest people that have gone into government serivce and have either been bribed, or if that didn't worked threatened with bodily harm.

This is the funniest thing I've heard all year, are you serious?? You are the one who needs to "do some research," or just read a history book.

You think the imposition of a central bank helped solve the boom-bust cycles, seriously your kidding, right? You do realize that since the Fed was put into place we've had the three worst depressions of this country's history, one of which we're living through right now. Not to mention the real estate bubble, the .com bubble, the toxic derivatives just to name a few.

You think that giving a private international bank the ability to coin the monies for a nation, which it then LOANS to the nation, AT INTEREST, is "regulating power?"

Or is giving that central bank the ability to levy an unconstitutional income tax on the nation's citizens to pay the interest on the money loaned "regulating power?"

The "actual creation and management of the U.S. monetary system" is one of the only powers the US government does have as outlined by the constitution. The founding fathers did that for a reason, to keep us out of the clutches of the private, international banking cartel.

They actually fought a war to separate themselves from the central bank of their day. It was called the "Revolutionary War," sometimes referred to as the "American Revolution," you should read about it some time, it's quite an interesting story.

Originally posted by Jazzyguy
To run a country is not free, things cost money (even for just printing money). It's like a gigantic hotel and a hospital (since it has social responsibilites), it has facilities, it might be 5 stars, it might 3 stars, and their rates vary, but if you want to stay there, you should pay your taxes.

If you have a problem with the tax rates or their tax structure, you have every right to complain, but you still have to fulfill your obligation as a citizen, otherwise you're just a freeloader.

Look up the Gracie Commission report, 100% of our tax dollars go to the banks, not towards running a country.

Look at middle eastern countries who don't tax their citizens, they give them money. They use the resources of the country for the people, and our government hoards our resources to enslave its people.

Taxation is robbery...

Originally posted by RKWWWW
The OP is correct. People should pay the tax their government levies on them. If you must, grudgingly pay it while advocating that the tax code be changed, but pay it all the same.

Go for it. I'm on strike, no taxes from me. And no I don't get gov. benefits. When you are FORCED to have your earnings TAKEN from you, inspite of the trillions of debt, failing bridges, roads, infrastructure, social services etc., what makes you think it's being allocated properly? If you are currently working, pay taxes and are aware of the epic failures of our gov't, you're a pussy. You're allowing this to happen. You're no better than the drug dealer "selling drugs to help fund terrorists"(where have we heard that one?) You are financing your doom and afraid to do anything about it. YOU'RE AFRAID! You're afraid of a little discomfort, you're afraid of breaking away from the status quo. You're afraid of your own government knowing damn well they're gonna come for you. That's why people won't do s*%t about it. It's 2010 but we are in 1984.

Originally posted by clameater

Originally posted by RKWWWW
The OP is correct. People should pay the tax their government levies on them. If you must, grudgingly pay it while advocating that the tax code be changed, but pay it all the same.

Go for it. I'm on strike, no taxes from me. And no I don't get gov. benefits. When you are FORCED to have your earnings TAKEN from you, inspite of the trillions of debt, failing bridges, roads, infrastructure, social services etc., what makes you think it's being allocated properly? If you are currently working, pay taxes and are aware of the epic failures of our gov't, you're a pussy. You're allowing this to happen. You're no better than the drug dealer "selling drugs to help fund terrorists"(where have we heard that one?) You are financing your doom and afraid to do anything about it. YOU'RE AFRAID! You're afraid of a little discomfort, you're afraid of breaking away from the status quo. You're afraid of your own government knowing damn well they're gonna come for you. That's why people won't do s*%t about it. It's 2010 but we are in 1984.

It's true that I'm afraid of the government. Who, in their right mind, wouldn't be?

Originally posted by aliengenes
first off: i never asked to be born
secondly: no one has the right to demand anything from me
thirdly: i don't owe anyone anything and pay as i go
fourthly: what i earn is mine and any tax i pay is included into whatever i purchase and that's all their ever going to get....period

if you choose to support a system that only works to destroy you, that's your privilege. i have better things to do than get caught up in it and be enslaved by it

edit on 24-12-2010 by aliengenes because: (no reason given)

AMEN, don't forget that the tax we pay repays the interest on the debt we have accrued that we owe to the International Banks, this is the key thing everyone forgets.

These TAXES enable the entire charade, the police state, the xray scanners, the WARS, huge covert and military spending, extravagant airlines for federal officials, etc. etc. etc.

This is why they have the IRS back up their taxes. TAXES REQUIRE VIOLENCE. Literally people don't realize but TAXES are where they get their power from, and that is why they are so heavily enforced.

Though: if everyone stopped paying taxes, I'm sure they'd manufacture some financial crisis to get the sheep filing ASAP. Or figure out some way around the problem. Smart folk we are dealing with here.

the only thing governments do is create debt. without the government our debts would only be our own and no one elses. without our money and hard work governments don't exist. the government is nothing more than a welfare state, all by its little lonesome, milking the tax payer solely for its private agenda

by our naive ignorance we pay for our undoing

reply to post by wildshoetwt

don't forget that the tax we pay repays the interest on the debt we have accrued that we owe...

The profit of the federal reserve is given back to the US treasury annually.

...to the International Banks, this is the key thing everyone forgets.

The federal reserve is run by the board of governors, who are government employees, appointed by the president and confirmed by the senate, doesn't sound too international...

TAXES REQUIRE VIOLENCE

Enforcement of any action requires violence when one side stops fulfilling their side of a deal. Paying your bill for a meal at a restaurant requires violence if you refuse to pay, for example.

I'm sure they'd manufacture some financial crisis to get the sheep filing ASAP

Or inform the country that the government is collapsing, that will end well...

the country wont collapse if the government does, it will adapt and overcome as we always have. the government produces nothing but debt and regulation....NOTHING

reply to post by Jazzyguy

After you said everyone should pay their taxes just like what I said then suddenly you go bipolar on me then talk about personal income tax and sales tax or consumption tax or whatever. It's not a bold claim, it's a statement just like your own statement that everyone should pay the taxes they owe, liable and so on.

Even though you quoted me directly, you still turn around and attempt to say I said what I did not say. I said everyone should pay the taxes they owe, not that everyone should pay their taxes, there is a distinct difference in this that doesn't require an intelligence above average to understand.

Your disingenous last sentence above; "liable and so on" reveals much about your ignorance on tax liability. It is farily presumed that you have never even bothered to look at the tax code regarding the so called "Personal Income Tax" let alone actually read it. You are speaking out of ignorance, and have made this clear to much more than just I in this thread.

If you are not willing to read the tax code, then you will always find those words written by people who have "weird" and "bizarre", and tragically it is not at all weird or bizarre to find ignoramuses spouting off about topics they know nothing about in this day and age of a dumbed down populace.

Here are a few legal facts for you:

1.) You do not have any legal authority to assess any persons liability for the so called "Personal Income Tax" except for your own.

2.) Every tax has a subject.

3.) In the United States, all taxes are either direct taxes, or indirect taxes.

4.) Either the "income tax" is a direct tax or it is an indirect tax. If it is a direct tax it must be apportioned among the several states. If it is an indirect tax, and if you had ever bothered to read the actual statutes regarding the "income tax" you would know that it is an indirect tax, it must be uniform across the several states. These are the principles of Constitutional taxation.

5.) The 16th Amendment makes clear that Congress has the right to lay and collect taxes upon income as an indirect tax, which is further evidence that the so called "income tax" is an indirect tax, and not a direct tax.

6.) Direct taxes are either capitation taxes, or taxes upon property. Indirect taxes are taxes laid upon some taxed activity.

7) No where in the tax code, regarding the so called "Personal Income Tax" has a tax been laid upon the activithy of earning income. Thus, if one is liable for an "income tax" they must be engaged in some other activity specifically named by the code that has made them liable.

These are facts of law, not merely uninformed opinions that hope to rely upon rhetoric such as "citizen" in order to make a case. Either you are willing to learn the law, or you're not. If you are not, your opinion, while you have a right to have one, and certainly to express that opinion, is just that, merely an opinion.

As a side note, one does not have to be a citizen in order to be laible for a tax.

Question: Why must you pay money to print money? It doesnt make sense. Dont we in the US have a token economy? Money is just a piece of paper, it has no real worth. Were just conditioned by the govt to believe that it is worth something. Money shouldnt matter, as the only reason were using it is cause its more reasonable and productive than just trading goods. If we printed all the money we wanted there wouldnt be any poor people.

reply to post by Jazzyguy


The US government isn't supposed to run the country, it is only supposed to make sure that peoples rights and the law are not violated. If the government only did what it was chartered to do, then they wouldn't need much money at all.

FDA, FCC, DEA, BATFE...pretty much any "regulatory" agency is unneeded.

FDA, why?
If a company puts out a bad consumable or medicine, it gets sued to hell and back.

FCC, same thing. Bad product, interferes with other devices, dangerous. Get sued.

DEA shouldn't even exist...period. If someone ingests a "drug", as long as they don't hurt anyone or infringe on the rights of others...they haven't committed a crime. If they do infringe or commit a crime then local law enforcement can handle it.

BATFE is a complete violation of the 2nd amendment and shouldn't exist...period.
SHALL NOT INFRINGE

These agencies let bad products and services out into the American public all the time and constantly fail at protecting us like they are supposed to anyways. They are failures.

Same with the alphabet soup agencies, FBI, CIA, SS, HS...all that crap. Unneeded. Taking less federal taxes from people would mean more money they could give to their states for better law enforcement. I would concede only the FBI, and then only with great limitations.

And then there's all the Black ops and secret projects, how much of my tax money funds that?
Why should I have to pay for something I'm not allowed to know about?
Black projects are illegal by their very nature.

Long story short, if the government did only what it was supposed to...then some minor taxes would be okay. But they forcibly extort about 30%+ of a persons income, so the more people who can get out of paying taxes the better. It'll eventually force the government to downsize (good for us less corruption), or forcibly rob us and get attacked by 200,000,000+ armed citizens (good for us revolution).