Why some people want to live in a country but don't want to pay their taxes?

People would live in a country and pay it's taxes if they thought the country was doing a good job.
Pretty sure when the king goes around in his chariot while his country is suffering asking the peasants for taxes they wouldn't want to pay.

Originally posted by budaruskie
Those who are paying the taxes must be able to do more than just complain about the amount, how it is collected, and how it is spent. Some say we have that ability, I disagree. If you think I'm wrong prove it by affecting the tax system in any way but going to jail or paying a fine and I will change my mind. When you have no say over how much, when or how they take it, or how it gets spent (in our case paid in full to Federal Reserve) then you are just a slave, nothing more.

No, I don't think you're wrong. I agree with your statement. The problem is people forget that a government in a democracy is actually a citizen too. They're an acting official, they are not above the law. But people too caught up in elitists vs us mentality, subsconciously they actually become sheeples in the process, to the point they're too brainwashed to see the truth.

reply to post by Jazzyguy


LOL did you just do the sheeple/brainwashed speech after stating you still actually believe in democracy?

also known as the "hype a puppet, burn the puppet when the people are fed up, bring new puppet, start over and repeat each time while furthering the hidden agenda" system

You are this close to dividing by zero...

Everyone, and I mean everyone, should pay the taxes they owe, which means the taxes they are liable for. Of course, it is highly unlikely, and I means odds that run impossible to one, that the O.P. has any legal authority what-so-ever to assess any persons liability other than his own. When the O.P. makes the bold claims that "you should pay your taxes", he is either in full agreement with what I began this post with, or is in complete disagreement with this post and is arrogantly and preeningly granting himself authority he does not legally possess. Which is it, O.P.? Since you have disingenuously created a post that pointedly avoids naming the so called "Personal Income Tax" as the tax you claim "you should pay", what taxes are you talking about? Surely you are not talking about that sales taxes that are collected upon the sale of an item. What taxes are you assessing all the people you presume to lecture, and by what legal authority do you claim to have the power to access their liability?

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux

I just don't understand what the hell are you talking about. Bizarre post, sorry.

Originally posted by Jazzyguy
reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux

 

I just don't understand what the hell are you talking about. Bizarre post, sorry.

Of course you don't, because you are not interested in facts, such as law and tax liability, and are far more interested in simply speaking in generalities. Bizarre indeed.

reply to post by Jazzyguy


If you don't understand JPZ's legal rant... Then i don't understand how in the world you start a thread about Taxes.

reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux


reply to post by AnotherYOU


Sorry if I'm wasting your time really, but that's all I got. I'm an ordinary citizen not a lawyer, I assume other ats members are mostly not a lawyer also.

reply to post by Jazzyguy


Perhaps it would help if you were to educate yourself a little bit on the tax system before making a post declaring people should just shut up and pay their taxes then.

Originally posted by Jazzyguy
reply to post by Jean Paul Zodeaux

 

reply to post by AnotherYOU

 

Sorry if I'm wasting your time really, but that's all I got. I'm an ordinary citizen not a lawyer, I assume other ats members are mostly not a lawyer also.

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Ordinary "citizens" mind their own business and don't presume to lecture other people on what they should do in regards to taxes. Every person who owes a tax has a tax liability. It doesn't take a lawyer to understand this, and any "ordinary" citizen of average intelligence should be able to understand that. The question is not whether or not people should pay the taxes they are liable for, the question is should they pay taxes they are not liable for? The question that follows is that if they are not liable for any tax, why are "ordinary" citizens like you working so hard at convincing them that they are?

what if the taxes get so high, that the people can't afford to pay them?? Are they still liable? If the gov't were to decide tomorrow that every adult should pay $10,000 a year and some of us make only 9,000..... how can we pay...
and yes, I know, it would be insane for the gov't to think that they could get $10,000 from every adult...but, look at washington, do they appear to be sane to you? I would say that the people have a civic duty to pay reasonable taxes that are for reasonable spending! but, the spending now days isn't reasonable, and that healthcare law....forcing people to buy unaffordable health insurance.....isn't that kind of like the gov't putting another tax on us, with the desire to divert that money to the healthcare industry, but they are just too lazy to collect it and send it off to where they want it to be?? well, that bill IS UNREASONABLE!! so, what if I really can't afford it? what if it's a choice between the health insurance and a roof over my head...should I lose the roof, so I can have the insurance? oh, wait a minute, can't do that, can I? there's laws in many areas of the country that says I have to have a roof over my head, isn't there? maybe if I cut off the electricity....opps, nope that won't work, they'll force me out from under that roof if I do that... I have no problem with supporting a gov't that is working for the people and has reasonable expectations of it's people, but that gov't has to stop acting like it thinks we all have fruitful money trees growing in our backyard packed full of hundred dollars bills ripe for the picking!
and, why is the op so concerned about me paying my taxes??? maybe he should write letters to our elected representatives and encourage them to pay theirs instead? I mean, mine get paid, while some of them are known not to have paid in the past...
maybe if they had a little skin in the game also, instead of thinking that they are exempt from the tax laws, well, they'd be a little more concerned with how they spend our money? maybe if they led by example, well.....we americans would be a little happier with them, more willing to follow? maybe if they'd quit screwing up the economy so badly, we would have more money to give them??

We created a Federal Government to have a Federal Military to protect the States from invasion.

The Federal Military won't stop the invasion into the States, of people from around the world robbing us blind getting 100% free healthcare from the EMTALA Act, free section 8, free food stamps, free school for their kids....

We've been robbed.

In 2009 the Federal Government collected $900 Billion in annual income taxes. $400 Billion was returned as overpayment...$500 Billion wasn't even enough to pay the Annual Interest Payment on the Federal Debt.

So now the taxes we pay don't fund the Federal Government...the Printing Press does. Our taxes are getting liberated by a few elite in America who are putting them into THEIR pockets...or helping to get it into elite's pockets or Corporations pockets.

We've got more people living in our National Forests than we have living in Los Angeles...and the people living in Los Angeles...a good portion are foreigners getting free $$$$ to have apartments and get free food....free school for their kids...free healthcare from the EMTALA Act.......yet real Americans are living in the National Forest in absolute poverty....

They should denounce their citizenship so they will get treated better by our Government.

Originally posted by Jazzyguy
To run a country is not free, things cost money (even for just printing money). It's like a gigantic hotel and a hospital (since it has social responsibilites), it has facilities, it might be 5 stars, it might 3 stars, and their rates vary, but if you want to stay there, you should pay your taxes.

If you have a problem with the tax rates or their tax structure, you have every right to complain, but you still have to fulfill your obligation as a citizen, otherwise you're just a freeloader.

You still think your taxes are what pays for the infrastructure, etc, of the country? Think again! The taxes go straight into the pockets of the private banksters as interest on the loans made to the country. The right to create money was usurped by the private banksters in 1913, previously it was the sole right of the government. Taxation was around 1% before the banksters' coup.

You need to do some research on this.

Originally posted by BigTimeCheater
reply to post by Jazzyguy

 

Perhaps it would help if you were to educate yourself a little bit on the tax system before making a post declaring people should just shut up and pay their taxes then.

I actually declared no such thing, I said people should fulfill their obligation as a citizen, whatever the legal tax system in the country since every country has different tax law. This thread is about figuring the mindset of the people not about redefining what is legal and not legal. I know some may want to try to precisely do that, to justify their behaviour, but I've already achieved my goal.

I don't mind paying taxes. I just don't think I have to pay over half my salary in taxes.

source

The link above show what taxes you pay and how much. Its crazy the amount they take from you. I made 52,000$ last year so I paid 28,000 dollar in taxes. I don't feel as if I got my monies worth. We pay more taxes than any other country. Other countries where there is free health care. Not that I want free healthcare but if I am paying this much then give me something for what I spend.

reply to post by Jazzyguy

I actually declared no such thing, I said people should fulfill their obligation as a citizen, whatever the legal tax system in the country since every country has different tax law. This thread is about figuring the mindset of the people not about redefining what is legal and not legal. I know some may want to try to precisely do that, to justify their behaviour, but I've already achieved my goal.

You did precisely that in your original post with these exacts words;

you should pay your taxes

You can stutter and putter and fluster all you want, your backpedaling doesn't change what you said. You can be pretentious and claim that others are "redefining" what is legal and not legal, but it is just pretense on you part since you clearly have no idea what is legal, and not legal. In fact, by your own admission, when you are confronted with the law you claim that you "have no idea" what is being discussed, and declare it "bizarre". Ignorance of the law is no excuse.

I think that most folks, including myself, would not mind paying taxes if the government would just spend the money responsibly. If anyone were to run their business the way the government runs the country they'd be out of business (or getting bailed out with tax dollars) in no time. Responsible spending and transparency with the budget (real trasparency, not the "$30,000 hammer" kind) would be a good thing, and people wouldn't mind paying in as much.

I once read a story wherein people would figure their yearly tax liability, then figure what percentage of the budget they agreed with and pay only that percent of their taxes. I know it wouldn't fly with our current set-up, but I always really liked the idea.

Originally posted by wcitizen

Originally posted by Jazzyguy
To run a country is not free, things cost money (even for just printing money). It's like a gigantic hotel and a hospital (since it has social responsibilites), it has facilities, it might be 5 stars, it might 3 stars, and their rates vary, but if you want to stay there, you should pay your taxes.

If you have a problem with the tax rates or their tax structure, you have every right to complain, but you still have to fulfill your obligation as a citizen, otherwise you're just a freeloader.

You still think your taxes are what pays for the infrastructure, etc, of the country? Think again! The taxes go straight into the pockets of the private banksters as interest on the loans made to the country. The right to create money was usurped by the private banksters in 1913, previously it was the sole right of the government. Taxation was around 1% before the banksters' coup.

You need to do some research on this.

if YOU do some research on WHY the government does not handle the actual creation and management of the U.S. monetary system, you will see that in the beginning when the U.S. handled it's own money, that there was periods of booms and busts. these booms and bust caused havoc across the income spectrum, from the guy that cleaned out barns to the businessman that tried to sell his goods.
the problem, and the solution to it, like everything else is the regulation of power. corruption lies in all forms of government, simply by the power that comes with it.
having said that, i think there were and are honest people that have gone into government serivce and have either been bribed, or if that didn't worked threatened with bodily harm.

reply to post by Jazzyguy


Why dont you enlighten us and post specifically who has a tax obligation?

Do you have a tax obligation?

would loan money to a crack whore?

this is the number one reason why i don't finance bad investments and the US federal government is a bad investment