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"I have gay friends, but..." Umm... No, you don't...

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posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 12:00 PM
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Originally posted by Becoming
You can be friends with someone and disagree with certain aspects of the way they live their life.

To be a friend to someone doesn't mean that you have to accept everything about them. My best friend is hispanic and we disagree, sometimes violently (no blows yet, just words) about how illegal immigration should be handled. He accepts my opinion and accept his, even if we don't respect it.


I do not understand why some straights can't understand the difference between opinions/feelings/differences - - - and full acceptance of how a person is born.

They are not the same thing.

I get it. I really don't understand that everyone doesn't get it.




posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 12:01 PM
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Originally posted by Annee
Tell me if this makes sense. Honestly - I am trying to be fair.

You treat homosexuality as if its the principal defining characteristic of a person.
You treat heterosexuality as if its the principal defining characteristic of a person.

Is it a characteristic? Pertaining to, constituting, or indicating the character or peculiar quality of a person or thing


Again? Substitute the word with synonyms, facet, attribute, virtue, trait, property, quality, description, whatever, I don't care. Just understand the context for crying out loud.




Dr Chuck - - I do understand what you are trying to say. But the way you say things - - I can "feel" the uncomfortableness of your issue with homosexuality.

Your gay "friends" can feel it too. Its there - its real.



Trust me, my so-called uncomfortableness that you can "feel" isn't because of homosexuality, its the lack of reading comprehension. And yes, I agree its not there - its really not there.



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 12:17 PM
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Originally posted by DrChuck

Originally posted by Annee
Tell me if this makes sense. Honestly - I am trying to be fair.

You treat homosexuality as if its the principal defining characteristic of a person.
You treat heterosexuality as if its the principal defining characteristic of a person.

Is it a characteristic? Pertaining to, constituting, or indicating the character or peculiar quality of a person or thing


Again? Substitute the word with synonyms, facet, attribute, virtue, trait, property, quality, description, whatever, I don't care. Just understand the context for crying out loud.




Dr Chuck - - I do understand what you are trying to say. But the way you say things - - I can "feel" the uncomfortableness of your issue with homosexuality.

Your gay "friends" can feel it too. Its there - its real.



Trust me, my so-called uncomfortableness that you can "feel" isn't because of homosexuality, its the lack of reading comprehension. And yes, I agree its not there - its really not there.


Why the hell are you being rude?

I do not have any problem with reading comprehension. You are the one who words things awkwardly - - and doesn't get it.



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 12:25 PM
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reply to post by Annee
 


My sincerest apologies if I came out too brash. But please understand my annoyance. The topic at hand has trickled down to arguing about use of certain words. Those who choose to hold their opinions are flamed for it, let alone assumptions, accusations and quick conclusions being made about them.



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 03:25 PM
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Originally posted by wayno
reply to post by civilchallenger
 



So yes, its very easy for a "good"/"true" Christian to claim that he has homosexual friends, and yet at the same time believe his friend may end up in hell upon death due to that sexual orientation.


I would have great difficulty with a person like yourself and probably would be always trying to keep my distance from you. You see, I give no credence whatsoever to the concept of sin. So everytime you brought it up in conversation I would find myself squirming because I simply could not relate to it. I would forever be "reacting" to what in my mind is an indication of a mental disorder. I would pity you and be polite, but no, I would not see a person like you as a friend, no matter how hard you tried.

I know people who have strong religious beliefs. Some of them are good people, but so long as they cannot accept the fact that I am gay without gudgement, then they will always be kept at arms length. True friendship with them will never happen as long as I have an option.


Well, if I we were being seated at a gay bar I wouldn't offer to push in your stool for you


In all seriousness though, I was a speaking about the "True Christian" viewpoint which I don't subscribe to completely. I don't use the word "sin" except when describing what other people would say and I'm someone a lot of people would not consider a Christian, (though I do self-identify as one) due in part to my belief that homosexual sex is *not* immoral or even a bad idea.

The word "sin" is a hangup word like "conspiracy theorist", "anarchist", and "capitalist"... its better if you simply don't use the word completely because those terms mean too many different things to too many different people. There are certain words that should be avoided in most conversation and "sin" is one of them.

Personally I wouldn't think I could be friends with someone who wishes to take my property without permission because I think that is immoral. However, most people do wish to take my property without permission and I've somehow made those people my friends anyways. However, my friendship is closer with people who would never take my property without asking me first... usually people who call themselves voluntaryists. So if most people around you growing up told you "homosexuality is a sin" I think your attitude would be somewhat different, though I admit there can be limitations on that attitude of friendships in the way I can't be as close to someone who wishes to kidnap and cage me if I don't pay my weekly extortion money they call taxes.



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 03:28 PM
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reply to post by civilchallenger
 


If anyone else is able to make heads nor tails from his post, can you please fill me in... I am unable to understand the point (if there is one) .

Are you agreeing with him? Or are you still taking the same stance?



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 03:36 PM
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But I really have gay friends...and black friends..I swear



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 03:37 PM
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Originally posted by civilchallenger
In all seriousness though, I was a speaking about the "True Christian" viewpoint which I don't subscribe to completely. I don't use the word "sin" except when describing what other people would say and I'm someone a lot of people would not consider a Christian, (though I do self-identify as one) due in part to my belief that homosexual sex is *not* immoral or even a bad idea.

The word "sin" is a hangup word like "conspiracy theorist", "anarchist", and "capitalist"... its better if you simply don't use the word completely because those terms mean too many different things to too many different people. There are certain words that should be avoided in most conversation and "sin" is one of them.

Personally I wouldn't think I could be friends with someone who wishes to take my property without permission because I think that is immoral. However, most people do wish to take my property without permission and I've somehow made those people my friends anyways. However, my friendship is closer with people who would never take my property without asking me first... usually people who call themselves voluntaryists. So if most people around you growing up told you "homosexuality is a sin" I think your attitude would be somewhat different, though I admit there can be limitations on that attitude of friendships in the way I can't be as close to someone who wishes to kidnap and cage me if I don't pay my weekly extortion money they call taxes.


Well that was fun in kind of a Loop-da-loop way. I think I need a road map with points-of-interests circled in red.


Yes - I think meanings attributed to the word "sin" are defined by the user. It doesn't really have specific meaning - - except I'm sure they're all bad


Yes - I'd have a closer friendship with someone who didn't play "five finger Louie" with my stuff.

Yes - the "homosexuality is a sin" pounded into you by a bible thumping preacher and re-enforced by your own family - - - will definitely play with your psyche. Many gays themselves have to get past that too. Not all do.



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 04:24 PM
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Enough of this insulting behavior!!!


From here on out discuss the topic not other posters or their use of language. Any further instances will be subject to action.

Thank you
gallopinghordes
ATS member and mod.
edit on 30-12-2010 by gallopinghordes because: (no reason given)

edit on 30-12-2010 by gallopinghordes because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 04:34 PM
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Originally posted by DrChuck
reply to post by Annee
 


My sincerest apologies if I came out too brash. But please understand my annoyance. The topic at hand has trickled down to arguing about use of certain words. Those who choose to hold their opinions are flamed for it, let alone assumptions, accusations and quick conclusions being made about them.


Thank you. So totally accepted.

Don't get me wrong - - I admire you a great deal for having gay friends - - - even though you still have difficulty accepting same gender sex.

It is a need in society to accept difference - - new ideas - new challenges - - etc. Otherwise there is no progression.

You're in the medical field. Can you even imagine not accepting new procedures - - because they seem at odds with what you already know?

But Hey! Its a discussion board - - whaddaya gonna do?



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 09:40 PM
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reply to post by Dark Ghost
 


Sure, let's do that... let's separate the animals into groups like you suggest - however, in the mixed group, I would hypothesize that there will still be homosexual behavior between animals, since there are valid anthropological reasons for their behavior. Biology alone does not make for a successful species. Humans are a successful species not because we can reproduce, but because of our strong interlinked social structures. Homosexual behavior is part of that social structure for many animals, and the insistence of modern man that ideal relationships are heterosexual and monogamous, that those relationships are the most important and successful for the continuation of our species is a creation of bigotry and 'morality', rather than something which makes the most anthropological sense for our species.

Reproduction isn't the be all and end all of social behavior.



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 09:44 PM
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reply to post by Haydn_17
 


It wasn't the basis of my argument, it was merely a comment as a response to another poster that said homosexuality was 'unnatural'.

Also, historically humans *did* have sex with other species - there's a growing amount of evidence that suggests that we didn't kill off the Neanderthals, we bred them out.. Certain populations have a much larger amount of neanderthal dna than others, for example, and sites have been found which suggested that the two species lived in close contact in various areas of the globe.



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 09:46 PM
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reply to post by Inannamute
 


You are exactly right... For those that keep quoting or referencing animal behavior..

Remember that in animals, monogamy is not prevalent. So as humans to have only one mate is UN NATURAL!



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 09:55 PM
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Originally posted by JaxonRoberts
This just kills me. In EVERY gay themed thread, those opposed to homosexuals and/or homosexuality inevitably say something like, "I have gay friends, but...", followed by how they disagree with the gay rights movement or homosexuality in general. Well, I got news for you Skippy, if you were really a friend, you would not want that person to have fewer rights than you do, and/or have that person feel like a social outcast, and/or have anything but happiness in their lives and to be able to share that life with the person of their choice.

So the next time you feel the urge to tell us how you have gay friends right in the middle of telling us how homosexuality is wrong, unnatural or unworthy of equal rights, just remember that you are NOT the kind of friend anyone would want to have at best, and just a plain lying hypocrite at worst...

(An aquaintance is NOT the same as a friend...)


I guess I have a few gay friends but I really couldn't care about your orientation. I believe everybody should be able to do anything they want as long as it doesn't affect anybody negatively.

If you're gay, so be it. Enjoy yourself. Have the same freedoms, we're all people. I personally don't feel it's right, but I'm not gonna rub it in your face. I might discuss it to learn more about how homosexuals think and act, but it's not meant to offend you in the least.



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 11:53 PM
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reply to post by Xen0m0rpH
 



I might discuss it to learn more about how homosexuals think and act, but it's not meant to offend you in the least.


Fantastic - one of the most sensible comments in all 50 odd pages.
I like that.

OK, so, just wondering, why don't you "feel its right".
Do you mean not right for you, or anyone?
Do you accept that some people are gay and have no choice in the matter, or not?
Do you think a gay person can or should go straight?
What do you mean when you say its not "right"? Just saying its not natural won't do tho. I need reasons in order to understand your position and that of some the others on here.
Thanks in advance.

edit to add: If by "not right" you only mean its not something you would do yourself, then no problemo. That is easy to understand and I don't think anyone who is gay would object at all. The problem is that using words like imply there is something "wrong" with us, but perhaps thats not what you mean.

edit on 12/30/2010 by wayno because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 31 2010 @ 02:09 PM
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To all freedom supporters & anti-bias,

Lets have "I Love Gay Day" on ATS.



posted on Dec, 31 2010 @ 02:33 PM
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Originally posted by Resurrectio
reply to post by Inannamute
 


You are exactly right... For those that keep quoting or referencing animal behavior..

Remember that in animals, monogamy is not prevalent. So as humans to have only one mate is UN NATURAL!


The only things that are truly unnatural on this planet are drugs and pesticides.

And you put them in your mouth and swallow them.

Lack of naturality is a stupid argument against homosexuality, and surprisingly it is not primarily because it is COMPLETELY EVIDENT IN NATURE


edit on 31-12-2010 by Brood because: (no reason given)

edit on 31-12-2010 by Brood because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 31 2010 @ 02:43 PM
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Originally posted by Brood

Originally posted by Resurrectio
reply to post by Inannamute
 


You are exactly right... For those that keep quoting or referencing animal behavior..

Remember that in animals, monogamy is not prevalent. So as humans to have only one mate is UN NATURAL!


The only things that are truly unnatural on this planet are drugs and pesticides.

And you put them in your mouth and swallow them.

Lack of naturality is a stupid argument against homosexuality, and surprisingly it is not primarily because it is COMPLETELY EVIDENT IN NATURE


edit on 31-12-2010 by Brood because: (no reason given)

edit on 31-12-2010 by Brood because: (no reason given)



Thanks for being a freedom supporter. I love you Brood. My hero..



posted on Dec, 31 2010 @ 02:50 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Dec, 31 2010 @ 02:55 PM
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Originally posted by Brood
reply to post by CommonPeople
 


Your immature gay farce got old hours ago.

I look forward to the looming ban hammer.



God says, "Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.". "And be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, just as God in Christ forgave you."



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