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"I have gay friends, but..." Umm... No, you don't...

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posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 10:45 AM
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reply to post by DrChuck
 



Disagreement or disapproval means neither condemning or persecuting, its an opinion.


What you are pointing out is that, like everything, between "disagree" and "hate" there is a continuum of opinion. The more intense or extreme the opinion, the more likely opinion will be backed up with some sort of negative actions.

There is a continuum between friendly and bosom buddies too. I am friendly to different degrees with different people at different times. Even the longest of my friendships can be challenged by circumstances. There are all kinds of shades and degrees that change with time and circumstance.

This thread takes a philisophical stance that being judgemental over one's birth status, being born gay vs straight, is a no go, and makes true friendship neigh impossible. Yes, we can function on various levels, work together, study together and maybe even "party" together. In a crisis we will surely help each other.

In normal, everyday life, we will at the end of the day be nothing better than aquaintances.




posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 10:48 AM
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Originally posted by DrChuck

Originally posted by Annee
reply to post by DrChuck
 


You know that joke?

The Lone Ranger says to Tonto as they are surrounded by "Indians".

Tonto: What are WE going to do.

And Tonto responds: What do you mean WE.


Oh please. You and your gay crusade. So now since I disagree or disapprove of homosexuality I'm gonna burn my friends in a witch hunt?

You treat homosexuality as if its the principal defining characteristic of a person. Did you know that gays also have additional attributes and dispositions that distinguish them individually? Such as political viewpoints, moral perspectives, religious preferences, etc?



Crusade?? Are you listening to yourself? And you honestly think a gay person would be friends?

Treat homosexuality?? Again - with this attitude you honestly think a gay person would be your friend?

What I know is People are People. There is NO dividing factor.

PEOPLE - have additional attributes and dispositions that distinguish them individually.

At one time Leprosy and Seizures were deemed Evil - of being possessed by the Devil himself.

There are many god believers today who can think for themselves - - and are not bridled by ancient taboos and misguided ancient text of a time when less was understood.



posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 10:53 AM
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Originally posted by DrChuck

You say you could never call yourself a real friend of a gay person without fully accepting them as Equal in all ways. Yet you reject the equal right of someone to hold a contrasting opinion.


That makes no sense at all.



posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 11:06 AM
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To DrChuck:

You have a right to any opinion or thought you like.
If you express it publicly I have a right to rebut it if I disagree, and visa versa.

You don't have a right to my friendship; except on my terms.
There were blacks who got good at "Yes, Massa ...." and I'm sure there are gays today willing to be subjected to all sorts of things too.

Not all are, or need be on the front lines. Hopefully they are making their contribution in their own way.



posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 11:13 AM
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reply to post by Annee
 


Most ignorant comment on here.
Makes perfect sense to a normal person.



posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 11:32 AM
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reply to post by adifferentbreed
 


The true definition of IRONY... A guy named "adifferentbreed" classifying himself as normal.. Talk about confused!

WOW... You think that hers was the most ignorant comment on here?
What about this one?


It's not about having less rights, considering gays probably have more rights than me.


or this one


as for dogs, your correct they are not human therefore do not need rights.therefore its for the "lover" of said dog to decide if they want to go that route, i dont think consent would be needed (forgive me i dont know the interworkings of a beastiaholic's mind. i can only guess.)


Aren't you just trying to be dramatic? Or are you so simple, that you read the last page and made your broad statement?

Why don't you expand on your brilliant observation and inform us on how you feel about the topic..

I didn't look at your post count, but this reeks of the 20 post sprint.
edit on 12/29/2010 by Resurrectio because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 12:45 PM
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Originally posted by DrChuck

Oh please. You and your gay crusade. So now since I disagree or disapprove of homosexuality I'm gonna burn my friends in a witch hunt?

You treat homosexuality as if its the principal defining characteristic of a person. Did you know that gays also have additional attributes and dispositions that distinguish them individually? Such as political viewpoints, moral perspectives, religious preferences, etc?



Originally posted by Annee
Crusade?? Are you listening to yourself? And you honestly think a gay person would be friends?


Yes I said "crusade", because you treat this matter as if its the most important issue a person can have. And you suggest that anyone who holds a different opinion on this matter is evil, or unrighteously denying and stripping homosexuals of their rights.

Look at your posts your condemning me for using certain words for crying out loud, while your real problem is with my opinion.


Originally posted by Annee
Treat homosexuality?? Again - with this attitude you honestly think a gay person would be your friend?


Again with the trivial nonsense. What was so wrong with this one? Am I not allowed to use the words "homosexuality" and "treat" in the same sentence?

Or are you the one on the witch hunt, probing for any reason, however trivial, to accuse me and persecute me for my opinions?


Originally posted by Annee
What I know is People are People. There is NO dividing factor.
PEOPLE - have additional attributes and dispositions that distinguish them individually.


Yes, homosexuals are people too. Where in my posts did I state otherwise?

Let me rephrase my sentence so you can understand. PEOPLE have additional attributes and dispositions beyond their sexual preference/orientation that distinguish them individually. OK?


Originally posted by Annee
At one time Leprosy and Seizures were deemed Evil - of being possessed by the Devil himself.

There are many god believers today who can think for themselves - - and are not bridled by ancient taboos and misguided ancient text of a time when less was understood.


Your comparing apples and orange my dear, those are diseases and medical conditions, homosexuality is not. Unless your trying to imply that homosexuality is a disease.
edit on 29-12-2010 by DrChuck because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 01:00 PM
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Originally posted by adifferentbreed
reply to post by Annee
 


Most ignorant comment on here.
Makes perfect sense to a normal person.


I've read many of your posts - here and in other threads.

I'll just leave it at that.



posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 01:09 PM
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This topic seems do be going into the direction of becoming a very black and white issue when friendship is itself an area of grayness. The concept of being a friend is a relationship that is between two people on their own terms. And other people's opinions of how a fiend is defined can and will most likely be different from another person's opinion.

In the context of the OP, yes, people can have friends who are homosexual and still at the same time have reservations or disagreements about their friend's lifestyle because what created that friendship was established in terms with acceptance of each person's opinions. An outsider's opinion shouldn't be used to negate a friendship (in the context of the OP) because that friendship doesn't adhere to their own standards of who can be a friend or what is a friend. Only the two friends should be able to end their friendship with each other if it becomes apparent that the opinions of either one shows that because of such opinions the friendship is no longer a mutual healthy relationship.

I wonder how it is that people are still going at it over this issue when at the end of the day we all do the same thing: eat, poop, sleep, get our jollies from something (within the boundaries of the law) and be all around miserable.

Just to add:

I can not stand it when someone uses the phrase "I have _____ (friends/family/coworkers)" so to show they have some authority by providing a blanketing statement about a person/group that is something that person/group may not agree with the "friend".



posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 01:13 PM
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Originally posted by DrChuck

Yes I said "crusade", because you treat this matter as if its the most important issue a person can have. And you suggest that anyone who holds a different opinion on this matter is evil, or unrighteously denying and stripping homosexuals of their rights.


Because my posts are specific to the thread subject? If I was in a UFO thread - my posts would be about UFOs.

Equal Rights are Equal Rights for Every Human. Fact - Statement. There is no Opinion.

The dramatics and opinions you bring to this discussion are yours.


Look at your posts your condemning me for using certain words for crying out loud, while your real problem is with my opinion.


No.



Again with the trivial nonsense. What was so wrong with this one? Am I not allowed to use the words "homosexuality" and "treat" in the same sentence? Or are you the one on the witch hunt, probing for any reason, however trivial, to accuse me and persecute me for my opinions?


Again with the dramatics.

If you can't comprehend the problem with "TREAT homosexuals" - - nothing more I can say.



Originally posted by Annee
At one time Leprosy and Seizures were deemed Evil - of being possessed by the Devil himself.

There are many god believers today who can think for themselves - - and are not bridled by ancient taboos and misguided ancient text of a time when less was understood.



Your comparing apples and orange my dear, those are diseases and medical conditions, homosexuality is not.


No I am not. Its not that they are diseases. Its about ignorance.



posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 01:14 PM
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Originally posted by wayno
reply to post by DrChuck
 



Disagreement or disapproval means neither condemning or persecuting, its an opinion.


What you are pointing out is that, like everything, between "disagree" and "hate" there is a continuum of opinion. The more intense or extreme the opinion, the more likely opinion will be backed up with some sort of negative actions.

There is a continuum between friendly and bosom buddies too. I am friendly to different degrees with different people at different times. Even the longest of my friendships can be challenged by circumstances. There are all kinds of shades and degrees that change with time and circumstance.

This thread takes a philisophical stance that being judgemental over one's birth status, being born gay vs straight, is a no go, and makes true friendship neigh impossible. Yes, we can function on various levels, work together, study together and maybe even "party" together. In a crisis we will surely help each other.

In normal, everyday life, we will at the end of the day be nothing better than aquaintances.


Well presented. But I must respectfully disagree. Of all the attributes and predispositions a person has, why must sexual preference be the only one to be accepted? Why is it being treated(on this thread) as the most significant and principal quality of a person?

What I have been trying to say is that - sexual orientation is nothing more than one of the few defining attributes a person has. Sexual preference is not the principal defining characteristic of a person. It is trivial compared to ones moral stance, behavior towards others, etc. And although I might not agree with homosexuality, it plays no role in my choice of friendships, its trivial, I am friends with the person not their sexual orientation.



posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 01:18 PM
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Originally posted by wayno
To DrChuck:

You have a right to any opinion or thought you like.
If you express it publicly I have a right to rebut it if I disagree, and visa versa.

You don't have a right to my friendship; except on my terms.
There were blacks who got good at "Yes, Massa ...." and I'm sure there are gays today willing to be subjected to all sorts of things too.

Not all are, or need be on the front lines. Hopefully they are making their contribution in their own way.


I have never said otherwise on all your points in this post.



posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 01:33 PM
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I will say that I greatly appreciate anyone accepting an openly gay person as a "friend" - - even if they have difficulty accepting gay orientation.

Its a start. And progressing in the right direction of society acceptance.

I grew up with a disabled mother. She had a full length brace on one leg and two Kenny Sticks. She contracted polio in the '51 epidemic when I was 5. (my father couldn't cope and split).

So I grew up with a mother that was "different" and I am very aware of how people reacted and treated her.

Some went overboard trying to protect her.
Some tried to be PC - - but you could see the truth in their eyes and their body language.

I will always appreciate those who just fully accepted her as a Person - - without any indication that there was anything different about her.

There were incidents of "I am your friend . . . but". Those "friends" were not a part of our lives for long.

But I still appreciate those who made an effort - - - even the ones who always had a "but" attached.



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 07:16 AM
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reply to post by davespanners
 


Yeah, people who say things like that are lying out their ass, and they clearly have an agenda. Everyone who is gay is an angel! I had a gay roommate for two years, and he has the most psychotic, destructive personality on the planet. Those who he was attracted to as well. They did drugs of all sorts wantonly, and they were extremely dismissive of any viewpoint other than their own. It was so easy to play them too. It is like there was a radio station in their . to which they were listening, and if you babbled the same tune, they LOVED you. I have met wonderful gay people as well, but there is a certain type that uses the card society has now granted as carte blanche to be self-important, manipulative little bitches.



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 08:51 AM
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reply to post by DrChuck
 


You seem like a basically good person, but when you say something like this:

And although I might not agree with homosexuality ...

my blood curdles and I just want to scream a blue streak!!

That is how important this issue is.

What the hell is there to agree with or disagree with? Attraction to the same sex is not a choice; therefore there is nothing to agree or disagree about. You don't "agree" about someone being born with red hair do you???

Is it disagreeable to you that a gay person chooses a same sex partner? That would be stupid because being gay, they have no option. One who is bi has options. Gay people don't. Straight people don't.

Do you think that they should just abstain from sex because you don't "agree" with the way they do it?
Man, you could never be my friend because I would consstantly be getting pissed off at the things you say.



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 09:04 AM
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Originally posted by orwellianunenlightenment
reply to post by davespanners
 


Yeah, people who say things like that are lying out their ass, and they clearly have an agenda. Everyone who is gay is an angel! I had a gay roommate for two years, and he has the most psychotic, destructive personality on the planet. Those who he was attracted to as well. They did drugs of all sorts wantonly, and they were extremely dismissive of any viewpoint other than their own. It was so easy to play them too.


What age was your roommate?

I've known plenty of straight guys who act exactly the same way.

Again - - Gay is not a Group Think. Other then having one thing in common - - they are individuals.



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 09:08 AM
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reply to post by wayno
 


I wouldn't get upset with Chuck.. He is just annoyed that he enjoys pooping on several different levels. It is unexplainable to him.. I am kidding chuck.. I am not one of the people that believe that all homophobes are closet homosexuals. Some people aren't able to accept it.

Chuck.. You should stop saying you "disagree" with homosexuality. Just come out and say it.. It grosses you out. The thought of being intimate with a man creeps you out to the core. Instead of saying you disagree with it, just come out and say it disgusts you. That would be easier to swallow (pun intended) than "I disagree" Like homosexuality is a thought or a choice.



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 09:21 AM
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reply to post by Resurrectio
 


Hmmm, does being grossed out by the thought of myself being with another man mean that I disagree with homosexuality?

I most certainly wouldn't say that I disagree with it, or with homosexuals having equal rights, but I can say that I find the idea of being intimate with another bloke really "icky". I couldn't do it.

Not having a go, just clarifying your point of view!

But I still maintain my position that people don't have to like everything a person does for them to be friends. My best friend is as gay as the day is long and I would die for that guy, but if another one of our mates thought that being gay was "wrong", I seriously doubt it would end any friendships. Our friendships go beyond sexual ORIENTATION (see? I'm learning.).

The fact that there's still people out there that would be so prejudice against gay people seriously blows my mind.



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 09:29 AM
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reply to post by Resurrectio
 


Um, 20 post streak I think not. Why is it, on every pro homosexual thread, only thier opinion matters? Everyone who disagrees should change their beliefs to placate them. Never has there been a more one sided arguement on here. Perhaps the simpleton is you as you fail to see the obvious.



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 09:31 AM
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reply to post by Toy_soldier
 


Comprehension brother, comprehension...
That was directed at a member that has continually used the verbiage "disagree"

Hence "Reply to"
edit on 12/30/2010 by Resurrectio because: Add comma





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