"I have gay friends, but..." Umm... No, you don't...

reply to post by Sinnthia


If they are not fixing their own, they are not friends. Then their just lazy and its your responsibility to push them to get off their lumps.

Being born anyway is not an excuse to not change it. We're all born savage animals, but we indoctrinate ourselves with civilized life styles and reprogram our barbarian natures.

Not worried about flaws. Demanding that you fix them. But like I said, one of my best friend is a bisexual atheist and in complete contrast to me. We get along great. Then we argue about stuff. Then we have a cup of tea and slaughter mutants on video games.

hypocrisy is not bad overwhelmingly. And if you ask me, morals don't even exist. The're fabrications to justify crap and pretend you're better than someone. We're all crap in the end.

Originally posted by wayno
reply to post by PJAmerica

 

Not my place to say what is right or wrong for others so long as they do not impose there way of life upon mine.

Exactly how gay people feel. Unfortunately we are frequently accosted by churches, governments and a good many biggots who would tell us what to do and force us to be straight, or kill us, if they could.

Whilst I don't think you straight people actually ever have that problem, of gay people trying to change you from straight to gay, I do like your sentiment. I wish more of you would apply that to us in turn.

I would never point you or anyone out as "You Gay People". I feel that we are all only human and with that comes flaws and miscommunications. I sit next to a guy at a bar who is gay I don't think of him as the gay guy. He is just a guy sitting next to me who is drinking a beer. I don't identify him by his sexual orientation. That's the biggest issue we as a race have with one another.

reply to post by Gseven

And furthermore....I am upset that I can't look my friends in the eyes when they are experiencing so much heartache, and tell them what I think the root of their problems come from.

Seriously Gseven, this is starting to look like some serious "projecting" here. People project their own problems onto others. They see other people's problems only in terms of what is really bothering them, themselves.

Look into the mirror and ask yourself why this issue is such a bummer for all of your friends when in the real world the majority of gay people are getting on just fine.

I am thinking there may be reasons you're unaware of that you have a naked male as the centrepiece of your Avatar. OK, sure I've gone too far perhaps, but I think you could help others more by getting into a more positive plane of thought for yourself.
Just sayin.

Originally posted by neonitus
i've got some opinions against homosexuality, and against some the the rights they want. should that mean i cant be friends with them?

Pretty much...and I can't believe your gay friends are tolerant enough to accept you wanting them to have less rights then yourself. Must be some dumb friends you have there...

reply to post by PJAmerica


I only said "you" straight people because the first point you had made in your post was that you were straight. Since you put up that little barrier, I acknowledged it.

You are right tho. I will not argue that it is a crummy way to communicate and so I take it back.

Originally posted by wayno
reply to post by PJAmerica

 

I only said "you" straight people because the first point you had made in your post was that you were straight. Since you put up that little barrier, I acknowledged it.

You are right tho. I will not argue that it is a crummy way to communicate and so I take it back.

I took no offense. I was simply stating my approach and sentiments on such matters. We are all guilty of it at times.

reply to post by Sinnthia


I have a strong feeling that a mature discussion about the actual issue of this thread is not on your mind. You tend to prefer to make inflammatory statements in an effort to get people to say things which you can use to attack them later. I will not play that game.

I originally intended to bring to the attention of the OP that disagreeing with an aspect of somebody else's life - whether that be political, social or economical - does not mean you cannot be friends. It looks as though quite a few others agree with this. But every time it is mentioned, people such as yourself want to make it about labelling us as intolerant homophobics.

ETA: I am not a Wizard and you can come to ATS for whatever reason you wish - just be prepared to face backlash if you come with a closed-minded attitude.

Originally posted by Dark Ghost
reply to post by Sinnthia

 

I have a strong feeling that a mature discussion about the actual issue of this thread is not on your mind. You tend to prefer to make inflammatory statements in an effort to get people to say things which you can use to attack them later. I will not play that game.

I originally intended to bring to the attention of the OP that disagreeing with an aspect of somebody else's life - whether that be political, social or economical - does not mean you cannot be friends. It looks as though quite a few others agree with this. But every time it is mentioned, people such as yourself want to make it about labelling us as intolerant homophobics.

ETA: I am not a Wizard and you can come to ATS for whatever reason you wish - just be prepared to face backlash if you come with a closed-minded attitude.

edit on 25/12/2010 by Dark Ghost because: ETA

I agree with you. I have had friendships with people who live and or believe in things I am against. It's called tolerance and human civility at the end of the day. Just because people are polar opposites does not mean that they cannot form a bond.

Originally posted by Dark Ghost
reply to post by Sinnthia

 

I have a strong feeling that a mature discussion about the actual issue of this thread is not on your mind. You tend to prefer to make inflammatory statements in an effort to get people to say things which you can use to attack them later. I will not play that game.

LMAO.

Please explain to me how I make anyone say anything so I can use it against them later. I seriously think some of you suffer from some type of paranoid delusions. Well, you made a claim. Can you back it up or will you use some excuse to pretend you do not have to? The above is not only a lie but it is a weak attempt to shift the blame for people saying stupid things about spying on their neighbors while their wives sleep unsatisfied next to them onto me for somehow making them say it. That AMAZES ME. If I have that power, I kind of want to see where I have been using it so I can see how. Help me out here.

I originally intended to bring to the attention of the OP that disagreeing with an aspect of somebody else's life - whether that be political, social or economical - does not mean you cannot be friends. It looks as though quite a few others agree with this. But every time it is mentioned, people such as yourself want to make it about labelling us as intolerant homophobics.

I am well aware what your point is and was. You have posted it here where I have been reading. My point is that I do not agree and that I feel your opinion comes from an ignorant place equating homosexuality with some kind of CHOICE. Seems like a LOT OF PEOPLE agree with me on that. So far, ALL THE GAY PEOPLE agree with me on that. What do you have? The guy who spies on the lesbians next door or the one that had a crush on his little league coach but isnt gay for not going all the way with him? You can keep the ones agreeing with you.

ETA: I am not a Wizard and you can come to ATS for whatever reason you wish - just be prepared to face backlash if you come with a closed-minded attitude.

edit on 25/12/2010 by Dark Ghost because: ETA

What backlash is that?
I am closed minded?
All that and I have magical powers.
Let me guess, I must be reptillian or pleadian or something too huh?

Why have you all resorted to posts that are nothing but attacks on me as a person? That is probably the most concerning thing. You no longer even pretend to know what the topic is because you are so focused on hating me. What does that tell us?

Belief is a Choice.

Gay is a natural birth right.

Originally posted by Gorman91
reply to post by Sinnthia

 

If they are not fixing their own, they are not friends. Then their just lazy and its your responsibility to push them to get off their lumps.

I am sure your friends love you. There is a big difference between being supportive and condemning the way someone was born. Being gay is not a flaw you fix so if you are telling your friends they are lazy and need to fix it, I am sure they are not calling you friend.

Being born anyway is not an excuse to not change it. We're all born savage animals, but we indoctrinate ourselves with civilized life styles and reprogram our barbarian natures.

So would you say that being born a boy is no excuse to not have a sex change and become a girl? I suppose being born blind is no excuse for not seeing anything? What a few misplaced bad examples can do for a weak point like that. I feel like being born blue eyed is a perfectly good excuse to remain blue eyed. What have you done about your height lately?

Not worried about flaws. Demanding that you fix them. But like I said, one of my best friend is a bisexual atheist and in complete contrast to me. We get along great. Then we argue about stuff. Then we have a cup of tea and slaughter mutants on video games.

Great, I am sure he gets along well with your black friend too.

hypocrisy is not bad overwhelmingly. And if you ask me, morals don't even exist. The're fabrications to justify crap and pretend you're better than someone. We're all crap in the end.

Well, just keep repeating that your point is based on the idea that we are all just crap in the end. That ought to get plenty of support. I want to make sure I get you all on the same page since one of you wants to talk about all the people agreeing with him. Here is one more, a person that doesn't really care because we are all crap in the end and at the same time goes on about how you need to tell your gay friends they are broken and lazy.

Originally posted by PJAmerica

I agree with you. I have had friendships with people who live and or believe in things I am against. It's called tolerance and human civility at the end of the day. Just because people are polar opposites does not mean that they cannot form a bond.

Hey, I agree with you.

Unfortunately none of that has to do with someone being gay which is the topic of this thread. So yeah, dwell on that a bit. We all agree on the above statement.

reply to post by Sinnthia


I am, we are still friends. We accept different beliefs. Also, yes it is a flaw. If you go by a purely biological standpoint it is. Hell, if you go by a purely logical perspective, any emotion is a flaw. And humans seem so keen to throw away so much for it. If you go back to biology, there isn't even a biological Way to have sex that way, so it's make shifted. To quote the meme, you're doing it wrong. But we all have free will to do whatever we want. There's plenty of emotions and feelings I've felt I knew were wrong, and so they were deleted from my mind. That ranges between thoughts of murder to thoughts of gay stuff. As my less-than-"moral" friends say, everyone's a little gay, because men want a guy with "stuff" when they watch porn, and women want to see a pretty girl. So yes, it very much is a choice. We are all born with basic thought processes and the brain cannot decide what one is right and wrong. People develop religions and philosophies to answer what's right and wrong. I consider homosexuality wrong because "your doing it wrong" basically.


So no, you are not born anything. You are born a human. And humans love patters, curves, straight edges, shapes, and things. As the human brain develops, we decide what we like and don't like, and then choose to allow those thoughts or not. SO in a way, accepting your gay is kind of weak. But so is accenting you'r straight and sleeping around with everyone. They are both equally lazy.

And no, I don't see it as weak. Clearly blindness is a defect. But you can fight it. You can find a way to heal yourself with technology, see though sound, etc etc. All of which are attempting to fix the defect. Being born a boy and desiring, and then going through with, a sex op, is pretty weak. Work with what you have. And from a biological perspective, that is a chemical inbalancement. Everyone thinks about how it would be to be another gender. Just a thought that roles by. Some accept their presence, some fight it and eventually get rid of it. but choosing to be something you're not physically, like gender, and choosing to be something to be mentally, like sexual preference and the extreme there in, are two different things. One is who you are, one is who you reinforce yourself to be. So don't mix the two.

Well he does not know my black friend. But I'm sure he'd get along fine.

And yes. We are all crap int he end, but that's no reason not to try and fix it. Even though you will fail.

If people would somehow find it within themselves to mind their own damn business and not worry about what someone else does in their own bedroom behind closed doors, this world would be a much easier place to exist.

Bottom line - it is none of your business. Why try and make it so?

90% of bigotry and prejudice stems from one person never taking the time or affording themselves the opportunity to get to know people on a personal level. It's easy to say all blacks are "this" or all gays are "that" if you have never bothered to get to know anyone on a real personal level.

All people laugh, all people cry, all people experience the same joy and pain that you as a human feel. Why should you care what anyone else does sexually if it DOESN"T INVOLVE YOU?

Mind your own freakin business. That is all.

It occurs to me, finally after all these pages, that I don't have one single person I consider a friend who harbours negative thoughts about my being gay. None, so i can relate to the OP's sentiments.

I learned a long time ago to distance myself from anyone who does not have my best interests in mind. That could have something to do with it. On the other hand, I don't think there is even anyone who is a mere "associate" who has ever said anything against me for being gay.

The real world I live in is actually nothing like this cyber one here. Nay-sayers are far and few between.

Just thought I'd throw that reality out in the midst of all this theorizing. People who dislike my taste in food, or music or drugs or any number of things can still be my friend, but if they don't unequivocally accept my being gay, then they are out the door. Simple, and fast.

Don't guys take interest in lesbians?

Originally posted by Sinnthia

Originally posted by PJAmerica

I agree with you. I have had friendships with people who live and or believe in things I am against. It's called tolerance and human civility at the end of the day. Just because people are polar opposites does not mean that they cannot form a bond.

Hey, I agree with you.

Unfortunately none of that has to do with someone being gay which is the topic of this thread. So yeah, dwell on that a bit. We all agree on the above statement.

It has plenty to do with it for me. I can tolerate anyone for there personal beliefs and life style and still treat them with regard and respect without having issue. I would never impose my own beliefs onto a gay person if I had anything against them or for anyone on that matter. It's really about what we make it be. So I can agree to disagree and yet some how I wouldn't mind conversing with you and have come to enjoy your posts in this thread so far.

reply to post by Gorman91


I've been reading your posts. We aren't going to agree - so I'm calling a DRAW. I don't do "ping pong" posting.

At 64 years old I can say that I have changed my views many many times through out my life - on almost every thing. Always trying to understand life and why things happen.

My mother was a polio victim in the 1951 epidemic when I was 5. She wore a full length brace on one leg and walked with two Kenny Sticks. Its interesting how people treated her - - like they might catch it - - or that she might keep customers away if she was allowed into certain businesses. Yes - she was refused entrance to some stores and restaurants.

My views on gays comes from when I worked for 5 years at a place where most employees were gay/lesbian (even couples). I was the minority being a straight female. This was about 25 years ago - - when many (both gay and straight) were dying of aids. And the gay rights movement was really picking up steam.

I admit I was completely naive and ignorant of - - what gay is/what it is to be gay - - prior to working there.

Ya might say - - my current views/opinions - - come from a day to day "immersion".

I learned basically "people are people" - - - there is no gay "group think". They are just people - individuals - - with varying personalities - likes - dislikes - wants and needs.

The ONLY thing they had in common was they were BORN GAY!

Yes! BORN GAY!

There were days of depression - - when a friend died - - or was abused - - or denied simple rights that straights take for granted (like being with a loved one in the hospital or attending a funeral which family had banned them from).

NONE of them CHOSE to be Gay. Not one.

Originally posted by wayno
It occurs to me, finally after all these pages, that I don't have one single person I consider a friend who harbours negative thoughts about my being gay. None, so i can relate to the OP's sentiments.

I learned a long time ago to distance myself from anyone who does not have my best interests in mind. That could have something to do with it. On the other hand, I don't think there is even anyone who is a mere "associate" who has ever said anything against me for being gay.

The real world I live in is actually nothing like this cyber one here. Nay-sayers are far and few between.

Just thought I'd throw that reality out in the midst of all this theorizing. People who dislike my taste in food, or music or drugs or any number of things can still be my friend, but if they don't unequivocally accept my being gay, then they are out the door. Simple, and fast.

You are very blessed in that regard then. Not so many are able to say that with absolution. it has a lot to do with how we project ourselves in life as well and then there are just mean awful people who make up the rest of the percentage.

I am much the same in regards to people, if they are negative about who I am and what I believe in then I won't be around them. If they are good to me though then I am good to them and from that can blossom great friendships.

Originally posted by wayno
People who dislike my taste in food, or music or drugs or any number of things can still be my friend, but if they don't unequivocally accept my being gay, then they are out the door. Simple, and fast.

Good for you.

My daughter's roommate is gay - - and his family refuses to accept it. They know - - they just pretend it doesn't exist.

Its hard because he comes from a large Latin/Filipino family.

He still protects his "cover" - - even though everyone knows. He never acknowledges he is gay to anyone - - including us - - even though his boyfriend (who is out) practically lives with us too. I don't know how his boyfriend puts up with it. Its like living a split life. They'll have Christmas together - - then they go their separate ways - - cuz the boyfriend can't attend any of his family's functions.