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"I have gay friends, but..." Umm... No, you don't...

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posted on Dec, 24 2010 @ 07:58 PM
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Originally posted by hdca19

Originally posted by seeashrink
reply to post by hawkiye
 

Interesting concept. I do not believe in reincarnation or the New Age movement. I will respect your opinion and I will respectfully disagree. Let me take this opportunity to say that I do not hate gays. I disagree that it is a natural lifestyle.
Seeashrink



May I remind you that anything we see around us of human biology is "natural" and being a gay male is not a choice. Do you seriously think if it was a choice that homosexuals would choose to expose themselves to the hate and discrimination that targets homosexuality? I've known since I was about 6 or 7 that I wasn't "the same" as everyone else.
I am a masters student in university and a ton of research has confirmed that there is a socio-biological casuation. You cannot simply minimize biology. Do some study if you wish to understand it more. While much more research is still needed, there is NO evidence that favors "choice" or environment over biological factors.

First, allow me to say congratulations on your academic accomplishments. By your argument, all children born with defomaties or mental illness would be natural. I don't think so. I have no doubt that in this society that there are hundreds of positive studies to justify homosexuallity. Have you studied the other side of the coin? We tend to agree and search to support what we believe is in our favor.
Respectfully,
Seeashrink




posted on Dec, 24 2010 @ 07:59 PM
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do people think this is similar to the 'i'm not racist...but.' statement? i dont think it is at all.
whilst i dont have any issues with people being gay, thay like guys/girls the same way i like girls, theres no fault in that.
if they want to marry, i'm fine with that, probably because ive no religious views. but if they want to adopt children, i would strongly disagree with that. if my 'gay friend' thinks its his right to adopt, should i shun him because i disagree, or should i pretend i dont have any beliefs so i can be PC?
its dull having friends who agree with everything you say or vice versa.
if you beleive something, dont pretend you dont just to be nice.
though i think youre dead wrong, doesnt mean we cant be friends.



posted on Dec, 24 2010 @ 08:05 PM
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reply to post by argentus
 


Thank you for a thoughtful and respectful reply. I have no intentions of injuring anyone with my beliefs and opinions. But I do maintain the right to express my views. I too was in the military and I don't doubt that there were gays in my company. I was never approached nor did it interfere with my duties. I am not a gay hater or basher, I just simply disagree that it is natural.
Seeashrink
edit on 24-12-2010 by seeashrink because: spelling



posted on Dec, 24 2010 @ 08:07 PM
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reply to post by neonitus
 


Tell me that you do not agree with the way I was born and then feel free to brag about what a good friend of mine you are.

I promise to correct you.



posted on Dec, 24 2010 @ 08:09 PM
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reply to post by Sinnthia
 


Absolutely not.
Seeashrink



posted on Dec, 24 2010 @ 08:11 PM
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reply to post by Sinnthia
 

i dont disagre with the way anyone is born, i've enought faults of my own to start pointing out other peoples.
i'm just saying i think its ok to be friends with someone whilst having an opposing opinion.



posted on Dec, 24 2010 @ 08:13 PM
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Originally posted by neonitus
reply to post by Sinnthia
 

i dont disagre with the way anyone is born, i've enought faults of my own to start pointing out other peoples.
i'm just saying i think its ok to be friends with someone whilst having an opposing opinion.



What opposing opinion is that again?

The one where in your opinion, they are wrong for the way they were born and where they tend not to agree that the way they were born is wrong? Is that the "opinion" you mean?



posted on Dec, 24 2010 @ 08:18 PM
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EVERYONE SHOULD HAVE RIGHTS. EVERYONE SHOULD BE RESPECT. THOSE WHO DONT AGREE PLEASE LEAVE. IT DOESNT MATTER IF U ARE BLACK, YELLOW, RED, GAY, STRAIGHT, WHATEVER



posted on Dec, 24 2010 @ 08:22 PM
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On the topic of whether or not homosexuality is “natural." Here are a handful of possible definitions of the word “natural" (not an exhaustive or complete list):

existing in or formed by nature ( opposed to artificial): a natural bridge.

based on the state of things in nature; constituted by nature: Growth is a natural process.

in conformity with the ordinary course of nature; not unusual or exceptional.

happening in the ordinary or usual course of things, without the intervention of accident, violence, etc.


Source: Dictionary.com

I respect everyone’s opinions, and their right to hold them, but personally, I feel that homosexuality most definitely meets those criteria, and then some. Here is why, at least in part. From Wikipedia (yes I know, not the most reliable source at times, but there are valid references and sources provided for anyone who wants to check in this case):


The American Psychological Association, American Psychiatric Association, and National Association of Social Workers stated in 2006:

“Currently, there is no scientific consensus about the specific factors that cause an individual to become heterosexual, homosexual, or bisexual—including possible biological, psychological, or social effects of the parents’ sexual orientation. However, the available evidence indicates that the vast majority of lesbian and gay adults were raised by heterosexual parents and the vast majority of children raised by lesbian and gay parents eventually grow up to be heterosexual.”

The Royal College of Psychiatrists stated in 2007:

“Despite almost a century of psychoanalytic and psychological speculation, there is no substantive evidence to support the suggestion that the nature of parenting or early childhood experiences play any role in the formation of a person’s fundamental heterosexual or homosexual orientation. It would appear that sexual orientation is biological in nature, determined by a complex interplay of genetic factors and the early uterine environment. Sexual orientation is therefore not a choice.”

The American Academy of Pediatrics stated in Pediatrics in 2004:

“Sexual orientation probably is not determined by any one factor but by a combination of genetic, hormonal, and environmental influences. In recent decades, biologically based theories have been favored by experts. Although there continues to be controversy and uncertainty as to the genesis of the variety of human sexual orientations, there is no scientific evidence that abnormal parenting, sexual abuse, or other adverse life events influence sexual orientation. Current knowledge suggests that sexual orientation is usually established during early childhood.


Furthermore, same-sex pair bonding (not just sexual behavior) has been thoroughly documented in the animal kingdom, in myriad species. That, coupled with the conclusions quoted above, certainly seems - to me at least - to suggest that homosexuality in humans is “formed by nature ( opposed to artificial,) based on the state of things in nature; constituted by nature: in conformity with the ordinary course of nature; not unusual or exceptional,” and happens “in the ordinary or usual course of things, without the intervention of accident, violence, etc.”

Therefore, by my standards and criteria at least, homosexuality more than qualifies as being “natural.”

As to the initial intended topic of this thread: while not holding such views myself (it should be evident by this point in my post that I have no qualms with homosexuality whatsoever personally,) I do believe it is possible for someone to be critical or un-accepting of someone’s sexuality while still regarding them and treating them as a friend, but in my opinion whether that friendship is mutual or “ratified” if you will, depends upon the feelings and stance of the gay person in question. If they don’t consider you a friend, or, indeed, consider you bigoted toward them, then the friendship you feel exists is somewhat moot, is it not? There is a difference between "considering someone a friend," and "a friendship" existing mutually between two people.

So while I believe things aren’t so cut and dried and that everyone is different in terms of how they define friendship - and that it isn’t my place to dictate whether someone is a “real” friend or not, since the term is highly subjective - I do personally feel that being scornful of homosexuality while regarding a gay person as a friend is at least, to me, lamentable.

That’s just my own personal opinion, however, and I respect the views and feelings of those who disagree.



posted on Dec, 24 2010 @ 08:23 PM
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reply to post by Sinnthia
 

i think we're geting our wires crossed, i'm not saying i think anything is wrong.
just saying that if i beleive something , i cant pretend i dont.
friendship is about honesty, right?



posted on Dec, 24 2010 @ 08:24 PM
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Originally posted by neonitus
reply to post by Sinnthia
 

i think we're geting our wires crossed, i'm not saying i think anything is wrong.
just saying that if i beleive something , i cant pretend i dont.
friendship is about honesty, right?


The topic is homosexuality. The topic is not whether or not you can be friends with someone who thinks the twilight movies are good. Either you feel people are wrong for being born gay or not. What are you trying to shift it to?




posted on Dec, 24 2010 @ 08:27 PM
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reply to post by Sinnthia
 
i think you missunderstood, read op and my posts again, byebye.



posted on Dec, 24 2010 @ 08:28 PM
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Originally posted by neonitus
reply to post by Sinnthia
 
i think you missunderstood, read op and my posts again, byebye.



I think you failed to make your flimsy case and are bailing out by pretending I have not read anything in a thread I have been more active in than you. Take care.



posted on Dec, 24 2010 @ 08:29 PM
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Originally posted by seeashrink

As far as those that are born with a predisposition to homosexuallity I would have to believe that it is a genetic defect.


It is not a defect - - it is a genetic difference - - like Red Hair - - black skin - predisposition to fast cars - extreme sports - artistic talent - etc.

There is nothing defective about gays. There is nothing wrong with their reproductive systems. There is nothing wrong with their intelligence. They are "normal" functioning humans (normal in quote because normal is subjective).

Something in their "human soup" makes them attracted to the same sex. How is that any different then me being attracted to "solid on the ground" men? Or some who are attracted to blond hair. Or some who are attracted to short or tall.

It is a genetic difference - - - it is not a defect.



posted on Dec, 24 2010 @ 08:31 PM
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Originally posted by neonitus
reply to post by Sinnthia
 

i think we're geting our wires crossed, i'm not saying i think anything is wrong.
just saying that if i beleive something , i cant pretend i dont.
friendship is about honesty, right?



Friendship is about acceptance.



posted on Dec, 24 2010 @ 08:34 PM
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Originally posted by Gradius Maximus

Originally posted by RelentlessLurker
reply to post by mydarkpassenger
 


well in the same way you think pedophilia "hurts" kids.

and bestiality "hurts" animals.


some feel homosexuality "hurts" society



Society can go #### itself, but then again thats just my opinion.

Separation of church and state.
Separation of intimacy and public knowledge
Separation of McDonalds and Food Industry.

Ahh, wonderful.
edit on 24-12-2010 by Gradius Maximus because: (no reason given)




And here is my only problem with Gays. If society (me) can go f**k itself, because I find you disgusting, then can you go f**k yourself because you don't think you are? What a stupid debate. Do what you want. Love who you want. I personally don't give a s**t, however, I will say it should really not be defended on the basis of "oh but look, it IS natural...." It isn't. The simple genetic makeup of your bodies is proof of that. It's just frustrating to listen to Gays piss and moan about rights, and then label anyone who disagrees with them bigots. Stop comparing your "equal rights" movement with African Americans, or Women....it's not the same ballpark. It isn't even the same sport.



posted on Dec, 24 2010 @ 08:45 PM
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Haha Jaxon.

I always love this subject, reading stuff about people that think they know what any other gay think, feels and does and their reason for it. How ignorant IMO...

I'll share my reason why I think so.

For those that say it's not natural. Wake up ! Everywhere in the animal kingdom homosexuality exists.
There are species even which are both male and female that actually impregnate each others. Species that change sex, and so on. Along with genetic mutations in all life as we know it, it is a unavoidable outcome that a certain percentage of homosexuals exist as a result of countless of possibilities.
For having homosexual intercourse I say yes it is a choice, but would you deny yourself and the person you love a sexual relationship just because you are both male or female ? Why because others say it isn't normal ?

I think a person is allowed to live his or her life as they see fit for as long as they do not harm anyone with their way of life.
I think a persons is entitled to some privacy. Meaning without someone judging, complaining or whatever it is they think is bothering them that much. Cause frankly it doesn't mean jack, and they should mind their own business and start with looking in a mirror and poder on whatever social norm they are guilty of.

For religious people I say this...
God has left us with the possibility to live our lives and make our own mistakes he also told us not to judge cause we will be judged the same narrow minded and unfair way. Or in other words... by our own standards.
Which means for most they will not like their standards much when the time comes.
You want to deny anyone the thing that they got from their creator which is also yours and what is what makes us special ? Really ? Deny their divine right as human beings ?

What I hate about the gay movement is that they are pushing my nose on their life style.
I really can't appreciate a parade with naked or semi naked gay people that dance around vulgarly and express their sexuality with the intend to confromt, show of or even shock.
I must add that I feel the same if the same event happenes with straight people.

Basically I say...

People mind your own freaking business

Sincerely

~ Sinter

PS
I might have left stuff out that also back up my ideas but only because I can't think of it right now...



posted on Dec, 24 2010 @ 08:46 PM
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And one more thought, Isn't a Gay calling a Straight a bigot, because a Straight is disgusted by homosexuality, essentially bigotry? This thread's entire premise is completely asinine.
edit on 12/24/2010 by mademyself1984 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 24 2010 @ 09:03 PM
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I really love homosexuals but not their lifestyle. When I saw I love them, I mean as a human being. My stance is that most all have been emotionally and or physically abused in childhood. Now why does everyone poo poo this reality ?I helped an ex-homosexual through some rough times with counseling who witnessed his father beating the * hit out of his mother, any vowed in his heart to NEVER be a man like that ! And subsequently went in the opposite direction of "manhood" to fulfill that vow. I have seen this dozens and dozens of times, as a matter of fact I have never met a homosexual after talking to them that hadn't had a trauma early in life and made a vow.
Now you all can say " well, you are just putting the whole issue in a tidy box" and that is ridiculous .
Everyone has the right to an opinion, I believe mine is based on research and experience.



posted on Dec, 24 2010 @ 09:07 PM
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reply to post by Annee
 


That's fake friendship. A real friendship is about accountability and correcting each other. Debate and argument, and still knowing each other to be equal human beings. If it was about acceptance, then a marine would accept his friend's going to die from that grenade and die, then the sheep is a friend of the wolf, accepting it can't do crap to change the fact he's prey.

If you don't even know what real friendship is, how could you know what more complex things mean?



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