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Crusading in the name of Darwin

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posted on Dec, 23 2010 @ 08:13 PM
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I have posted a reply in a certain thread posing the question...

Are those who wish to use Darwins Theory of Evolution any different than those of ancient history who have used Religion in general to crusade in the name of their God ?

I have found alot of evidence for this answer over my years on the internet and I also suspect this is why Darwin gets such a bad rap from Theists in general.

I have posed a question that the Theory of Evolution can be used in the same way as religious fanatics have used Religion in the name of their own personal God (which spans quite many faiths, not just one)

Hitler and Stalin were Atheist and even in the Nazi doctrine Hitler penned his crusading rite modeled on Darwins theory. Hitler many say was a Christian but it is irrelevant because he had strayed form his faith and from true Christianity.

I have found that the percentage of these "Crusaders for Darwin" are quite young also, and most of them are self-proclaimed Atheists but Atheism and the ignorance associated with it is only a very small percent of the planets population, barely registering on the pie-graph O' faith.

I believe we need to pay special attention to these misled youth for it will be from this particular group that another Hitler may arise and that is something we really do not need in the world again. I believe we should show these sad Atheistic souls unconditional love and help them to better understand that which they do in the face of humanity. Their crusade is not that of a just crusade but that which preaches hate for the majority of the rest of the God fearing planet which I still believe to be around 95% of Earths population.

I believe these Atheists suffer from some form of delusion that the rest of us on the planet (95% of us) do understand and that if we bound together we may be able to give vision to these sad blind souls, who given time will eventually try to do harm in the name of Darwin.

thoughts ?




posted on Dec, 23 2010 @ 08:32 PM
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Darwin's work to me, expresses one underlaying and underlining point that has been the law of nature since whenever the dawn of the first day may've been which is;

Survival of the fittest.

(That is over now, thanks to welfare, and other sorts of subsidies so that even the poorest, most useless may survive today)


I think I grasp what you are at least trying to get at here. Do we want a world of 'athiests' , a godless, science-bound by the chart, by the book culture?

The answer is yes & No. We need a FUSION of spirituality and science. They are truly one in the same separated by language and interpretation.

PS Hitler was spiritual, and believed heavily in aliens. (Watch History's "Ancient Aliens, the 3rd Riech")



posted on Dec, 23 2010 @ 08:33 PM
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reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact
 


Hitler believed in the occult which means he was not an atheist.

Occultism is routed in the understanding that God is the creator.

All occult power comes from the understanding of what God created and using that knowledge in the material world.

Darwin made some decent observations and I agree that the scientific community are crusaders and put the sword to all non-believers.



posted on Dec, 23 2010 @ 08:38 PM
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"Hitler many say was a Christian but it is irrelevant because he had strayed form his faith and from true Christianity. " but then we could argue that those who use Evolution as a scapegoat for their violent desires strayed away from Evolution and the "true" form of evolution.

There is no true form of christianity as there is no true form of evolution. Christian has different denominations for different interpretations of the bible (more of a self-serve concept IMO) just as evolution has different theories stemming from the original theory.

The different here is the literal evidence. For evolution we ofcourse begin with a theory, then we attempt to reinforce that theory using "scientific" observations and experimentation. With Christianity, it is merely different interpretations of the bible. No two Christian are the same. They each warp even in the slightest, a portion of the "word of God" to suit their agenda or sensibilities. There is no reproducable evidence, and it is all based on faith. So having said that, you cannot say that Hitler was not a "true" Christian. If he said he was a Christian, he was a Christian.

I agree with everything else you say though, I see the kids using evolution or even religion as a scapegoat for their own desires that, since it goes against their own "morals" they use these concepts to attempt to rationalise their "wrongdoing"
edit on 23-12-2010 by Somehumanbeing because: (no reason given)


If you look back, most religions are created with the intention of spreading "good"-will. Along the way though, people rape it, and it becomes like what Christianity and Islam is today. There are still fragments of the original scriptures in Christianity, the rest is twisted crap to control you.
edit on 23-12-2010 by Somehumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 23 2010 @ 08:43 PM
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Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact
Are those who wish to use Darwins Theory of Evolution any different than those of ancient history who have used Religion in general to crusade in the name of their God ?

Yes.


I have found alot of evidence for this answer over my years on the internet and I also suspect this is why Darwin gets such a bad rap from Theists in general.

And by evidence, you mean opinion.


I have posed a question that the Theory of Evolution can be used in the same way as religious fanatics have used Religion in the name of their own personal God (which spans quite many faiths, not just one)

No, Evolution is not a religion in the same way schematics to create a car is not a religion


Hitler and Stalin were Atheist and even in the Nazi doctrine Hitler penned his crusading rite modeled on Darwins theory. Hitler many say was a Christian but it is irrelevant because he had strayed form his faith and from true Christianity.

Hitler was christian

Now, what he did is considered by todays standard to be not very christian, but he was doing what he thought the bible was telling him to do. Get rid of the ungodly, bring in purity.
You may not -want- him to be a christian, but that doesn't matter.
I don't want Stalin to be an atheist as I like to believe the average atheist is run by reason (hense why he is atheist), but there he is anyhow.

I could provide alot of supporting evidence for Hitler's deep christian belief, but sort of pointless, you don't read opposing arguments in a rational fashion.


I have found that the percentage of these "Crusaders for Darwin" are quite young also, and most of them are self-proclaimed Atheists but Atheism and the ignorance associated with it is only a very small percent of the planets population, barely registering on the pie-graph O' faith.

Define young. Typically atheism starts around the college age in serious lifestyle choice due to study in science and liberated from their dogmatic small towns. When you first start anything, your gung ho. Later in life, people lose friends and family, and some former atheists abandon reason due to psychological trama and hating to contemplate a non-biblical death. These are being intellectually dishonest with themselves overall, but its their choice.

Atheism is a stand against ignorance and a simple decision to find out the nature of the universe without resorting to simply screaming deities or magic elves at work.

I fail to see how percentages of anything have to do with anything. There are very few managers in a business...the world doesn't need tons of leaders, just enough to guide the crowd.


I believe we need to pay special attention to these misled youth for it will be from this particular group that another Hitler may arise and that is something we really do not need in the world again.

Yes, I believe your anti-hitler christians are patrolling already

Keep classy christians...nice work.


I believe we should show these sad Atheistic souls unconditional love and help them to better understand that which they do in the face of humanity.

Ya, erm..no thanks, we seen what "christian love" is




Their crusade is not that of a just crusade but that which preaches hate for the majority of the rest of the God fearing planet which I still believe to be around 95% of Earths population.
85% and again with the numbers game.
We have no crusade beyond loling at people demanding zeus watches you everyday and the internet is run by angel magic.



I believe these Atheists suffer from some form of delusion that the rest of us on the planet (95% of us) do understand
85%, and thats nice...well, since we are delusional, its best to simply let us be then and not use anything we make because it might be dangerous...aka, use nothing that science has provided.
hmm..still using the computer/internet? psst...that was made through scientific discovery..why are you using the tool of delusionals?
Just pray for some sort of Godnet and a angel computer or something..

no? just going to soak up all our advancements while winging tomatos? oh well, I guess thats your choice.



and that if we bound together we may be able to give vision to these sad blind souls, who given time will eventually try to do harm in the name of Darwin.
thoughts ?

Hmm..and by harm, that means simply writing books and letting people read the latest evidence on evolution, or cosmological understandings? medical breakthroughs, etc..yes

I suggest, to try and help the atheist "movement", you do as theists have always done...get bombs and guns and demand people believe in your invisible friend or kill them..after all, that is sort of the history of religious tolerance, right?



posted on Dec, 23 2010 @ 08:48 PM
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Originally posted by MavRck
Darwin's work to me, expresses one underlaying and underlining point that has been the law of nature since whenever the dawn of the first day may've been which is;

Survival of the fittest.

(That is over now, thanks to welfare, and other sorts of subsidies so that even the poorest, most useless may survive today)


I think I grasp what you are at least trying to get at here. Do we want a world of 'athiests' , a godless, science-bound by the chart, by the book culture?

The answer is yes & No. We need a FUSION of spirituality and science. They are truly one in the same separated by language and interpretation.

PS Hitler was spiritual, and believed heavily in aliens. (Watch History's "Ancient Aliens, the 3rd Riech")


agreed... I will look it up and watch it, I don't believe I have ever seen it.

in the mean time, here ya go... "Ancient wisdom"




posted on Dec, 23 2010 @ 08:48 PM
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reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact
 


I see what you are saying. Most atheist's, given an actual spiritual experience, will be the first ones to dump their belief and say "ok, something exists here that cannot be explained." Most atheists haven't done enough research into many different subjects and then place them together, such as physics, ufology and extraterrestrial beings, paranormal activity etc. I myself have always felt spiritual and really started getting into it within the last two years. I don't believe in religion because in my eyes it is what causes so many worldwide problems. Yet, I feel i've opened myself up. I've had a few prominent experiences that cannot be explained, and I know they were meant for me. I was meant to begin to understand the true concept. You are right, even if atheists say "haha your such a **** you believe in a god, loser" and so on, they haven't had that experience that literally changes you. My soul has now expanded, and I find myself, for the most part, different from my generation. Most kids my age, 19, don't care about anything but MTV, soulless Pop and Rap music, facebook and things they think matter. I've realized after experiences, past memories, and a little isolation, the true meaning to this life on this Earth is far more than that. Im a normal human like anybody else, but as you said, we are the ones that "know." Go through facts and science and combine it with psuedoscience, and once you begin to combine the two things it begins to make sense. It's like a puzzle really. I remember growing up in middle school and people saying you either believe in evolution and no God, or you believe in God and he created everything. I believe in both. I know evolution is real. I think Darwin's research was very true and important. Yet, I believe in some type of spiritual world for I have literally seen extracts of it myself with my own eyes. It boggles my mind really how people think when we die, we are nothing. We have proof we exist after our heart, brain and body are totally shut down. Even though im always skeptic, because to me anything is possible, I believe very deeply there is so much more to understand. Anyways, I believe what you say. About love, and even if an atheist is cussing at you because they are ignorant and don't care what you have to say, bless their soul to one day understand and be what a human being is supposed to be, a loving and peaceful being. Hell, even though Hitler was one of the most evil beings to walk the Earth, I bless his soul. Since eternity is real, his soul will eventually be cleansed from his evil, and he will have a chance to be a loving, peaceful soul.
edit on 23-12-2010 by FPB214 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 23 2010 @ 08:52 PM
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If only Hitler had made some sort of comments as to what he felt was the justification of the war then we could settle this..

Oh wait he did


We are a people of different faiths, but we are one. Which faith conquers the other is not the question; rather, the question is whether Christianity stands or falls.... We tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideas of Christianity... in fact our movement is Christian. We are filled with a desire for Catholics and Protestants to discover one another in the deep distress of our own people. -Adolf Hitler, in a speech in Passau, 27 October 1928


Lest we forget that he also spent a great deal of time and resources searching for the Holy Grail and the Ark of the covenant.

Sounds like a pretty committed christian to me



posted on Dec, 23 2010 @ 08:57 PM
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Originally posted by FPB214

given an actual spiritual experience, will be the first ones to dump their belief and say "ok, something exists here that cannot be explained." Most atheists haven't done enough research into many different subjects and then place them together, such as physics, ufology and extraterrestrial beings, paranormal activity etc.


I have had a few "ghost" experiences that are absurdly remarkable beyond the normal story...true wild stuff.

That made me seek out both scientific and paranormal explanations, I was not satisfied by any answer..however, I certainly was not satisfied with what theistic people were suggesting. It was absurd what they tried to have me believe.

It was actually those experiences that lead me from a fairly theistic christian to a agnostic athiest..so, the opposite of what you said happened to me.


That is the only legacy of christianity, or really any major judaic religion



posted on Dec, 23 2010 @ 08:59 PM
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Are those who wish to use Darwins Theory of Evolution any different than those of ancient history who have used Religion in general to crusade in the name of their God ?


Yes, religion relies on blind faith, evolution relies on science and critical thinking, quite different.


I also suspect this is why Darwin gets such a bad rap from Theists in general.


Theists aren't generally the most tolerable people when you question their beliefs.


I have posed a question that the Theory of Evolution can be used in the same way as religious fanatics have used Religion in the name of their own personal God (which spans quite many faiths, not just one)


Evolution describes evolution, nothing else. It's like saying I can use the germ theory the same way as religious fanatics use religion, it's just a moot point.


Hitler and Stalin were Atheist


So? Everyone's an atheist when they are born if you don't fill their mind with silly faith based fairy tales.


Hitler many say was a Christian but it is irrelevant because he had strayed form his faith and from true Christianity.





I have found that the percentage of these "Crusaders for Darwin" are quite young also


Or just critical thinkers.


and most of them are self-proclaimed Atheists but Atheism and the ignorance associated with it is only a very small percent of the planets population


Yes, the ignorance of atheism, how dare we question your faith based fairy tale and magical sky spirit that lacks any evidence whatsoever.



I believe we need to pay special attention to these misled youth


Quick! Stop those kids from thinking and questioning things!



I believe we should show these sad Atheistic souls unconditional love and help them to better understand that which they do in the face of humanity.


Atheists don't love anything? This keeps getting better and better.



Their crusade is not that of a just crusade but that which preaches hate for the majority of the rest of the God fearing planet which I still believe to be around 95% of Earths population.


Atheism is the lack of a belief in god, that's it. The only way you can preach it is if you're basically 'preaching' skepticism, which is arguably the only viable way of assessing information of any kind. It doesn't matter what an atheist as it has nothing to do with atheism. Does your lack of a belief in flying unicorns effected your life in any way? Regardless, the numbers of silly faith based believers are irrelevant, critical thinking doesn't care how many people to your fairy tale when the belief itself is basically a massive spit in the face of critical thinking.


I believe these Atheists suffer from some form of delusion that the rest of us on the planet


Yeah, it's not a delusion though, I believe it's called skepticism, try it some time. Why do you keep bringing up statistics anyways, are you aware of what areas contain the most atheists?



Project Reason


SOURCES:
Over 10% of American population are atheist:
www.atheistempire.com...

Less than 0.25% of prisoners are atheist:
holysmoke.org...

Majority of Nobel Prize winners atheist:
The Religiosity and Religious Affiliation of Nobel Prize Winners (Beit-Hallahmi, 1989)

Majority of University professors atheist:
Religion and Spirituality among University Scientists (Ecklund, 2007)

Majority of scientists atheist:
freethoughtpedia.com...

Atheist Intellectuals:
brainz.org...
www.celebatheists.com...

Atheist Celebrities:
www.celebatheists.com...

Poverty rate lower among atheists:
Society Without God (Zuckerman, 2008)

IQ higher among atheists:
www.interfaith.org...

Illiteracy rate lower among atheists:
United Nations Human Development Report (2004)

Average Income higher among atheists:
United Nations Human Development Report (2004)

Divorce rate lower among atheists:
www.religioustolerance.org...

Teen pregnancy rate lower among atheists:
www.americablog.com...

Abortions lower among atheists:
Cross-National Correlations of Quantifiable Societal Health with Popular Religiosity and Secularism in the Prosperous Democracies: A First Look (Paul, 2005)

STD infection lower among atheists:
www.timesonline.co.uk...

Crime rate lower among atheists:
Cross-National Correlations of Quantifiable Societal Health with Popular Religiosity and Secularism in the Prosperous Democracies: A First Look (Paul, 2005)

Homicide rate lower among atheists:
Cross-National Correlations of Quantifiable Societal Health with Popular Religiosity and Secularism in the Prosperous Democracies: A First Look (Paul, 2005)


Really, "sad blind souls"? From a faith based, arrogant, ignorant theist who relies solely on the lack of critical thinking in order to herd more followers into their cult?



posted on Dec, 23 2010 @ 09:01 PM
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reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact
 




Hitler and Stalin were Atheist


This is patently false as far as Hitler is concerned. Please do not lie. Hitler was a Catholic, talked about God, had Gott Mit Uns "God With Us" on the belt buckles of soldiers. The Catholic church never excommunicated. I wouldn't blame Hitler's religiosity on what he did despite the fact that Hitler mentioned his belief in God repeatedly in Mein Kampf. Regardless of what he personally believed what he did was wrong and both theists and atheists can agree on that.



Hitler many say was a Christian but it is irrelevant because he had strayed form his faith and from true Christianity.


Oh. So the fact that he was an atheist WOULD be relevant to you but the fact he was a theist WOULDN'T be.



and the ignorance associated with it


I see you claiming things like this all the time. Atheists are arrogant, atheists are thieves, atheists are ignorant. What about the atheist position is ignorant? Care to back up your inflammatory insulting generalization with some facts?



I believe these Atheists suffer from some form of delusion


You do realize that there are plenty of theists who accept and defend Evolution right? Try looking up Ken Miller, as far as I know Doctor Miller is a practicing Christian yet he has testified against Intelligent Design and knows a heck of a lot about Evolution. Evolution and atheism have no link. Evolution is only about bio-diversity it isn't about the origins of life, the origins of the Universe or the possible existence of any deities.



thoughts ?


This OP is a fallacious mess of tangled nonsense. Honestly I do not understand your motives for making these threads, all you do is make a fool of yourself.



posted on Dec, 23 2010 @ 09:02 PM
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Originally posted by davespanners
If only Hitler had made some sort of comments as to what he felt was the justification of the war then we could settle this..

Oh wait he did


We are a people of different faiths, but we are one. Which faith conquers the other is not the question; rather, the question is whether Christianity stands or falls.... We tolerate no one in our ranks who attacks the ideas of Christianity... in fact our movement is Christian. We are filled with a desire for Catholics and Protestants to discover one another in the deep distress of our own people. -Adolf Hitler, in a speech in Passau, 27 October 1928


Lest we forget that he also spent a great deal of time and resources searching for the Holy Grail and the Ark of the covenant.

Sounds like a pretty committed christian to me


This guy is just a troll...he will ignore your comment and any comment that factually shows Hitler as a christian..it goes against his "feelings", therefore, he will willfully ignore it and spread more ignorance and disinformation.

Ultimately, this thread is already done. the facts are laid out, his argument is now clearly a strawman argument..no worries, he will make another one slightly different in a hour or so anyhow to hope that somehow it will get by.

all of his threads are the same...disinformation, disinformation, lies, lies, lets kill atheists, I am not listening, strawman, the end.

I think ATS needs to step up...its one thing to have an opinion, its another to willfully and endlessly spout off threads that clearly are lies with a 3 second google search or a flip through any history book.

He is a liar...flat out..no if's, and's, or but's.

He constantly and publically bears false witness.
I guess if he is right, he is going straight to hell anyhow..meh.



posted on Dec, 23 2010 @ 09:04 PM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 


you do realize Westboro Church is a single family Church right ? a church is any union of two or more people
who's to say their union is right or wrong.. I am not one normally to judge


would you have anything else or of more variety to pull out of your bag ? the same ole pictures and rhetoric are getting a little boring...

I think SFX and MIMS are brothers like Romulus and Remus


nom nom nom !



posted on Dec, 23 2010 @ 09:04 PM
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Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
Please do not lie. Hitler was a Catholic, talked about God, had Gott Mit Uns "God With Us" on the belt buckles of soldiers. The Catholic church never excommunicated. I wouldn't blame Hitler's religiosity on what he did despite the fact that Hitler mentioned his belief in God repeatedly in Mein Kampf. Regardless of what he personally believed what he did was wrong and both theists and atheists can agree on that.


Actually, Hitler and the Catholic church had some major bad blood. He seen them as a scorn against christianity. However, there is alot of speculation that this ws on the face..interesting argument anyhow, but on the face at least, its easiest to simply say he was Christian, that way you don't fall into the hair splitting of when he cursed the catholic church...or more importantly, their power structure



posted on Dec, 23 2010 @ 09:09 PM
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Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact
reply to post by SaturnFX
 



would you have anything else or of more variety to pull out of your bag ? the same ole pictures and rhetoric are getting a little boring...


nom nom nom !



The answers you get aren't going to change because you keep asking the same questions over and over again ad infinitum and then seem surprised that you get the same answers.

If you want different answers stop making the same thread over and over



posted on Dec, 23 2010 @ 09:09 PM
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Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact
reply to post by SaturnFX
 


you do realize Westboro Church is a single family Church right ? a church is any union of two or more people
who's to say their union is right or wrong.. I am not one normally to judge

not one to judge. lol...funny
anyhow, I actually agree with WBC. They actually are reading the bible correctly. It is the church that has changed (evolved..muahahaha) through time that became a bit more sensible..the WBC however is dead on in their direct interpretations...I am just wondering why they don't also protest seafood restaurants or peeing standing up..but whatever.

I find it funny that so called christians call them not christian because they are too...christian. heh

Oh, and I do not agree with anything they say, just in the fact that they are following the nonsense correctly...like people playing monopoly correctly.


would you have anything else or of more variety to pull out of your bag ? the same ole pictures and rhetoric are getting a little boring...

Oi, I added a new picture just for this thread...see the bar graph! that took a good 5 seconds out of my life.


I think SFX and MIMS are brothers like Romulus and Remus

nom nom nom !

Brothers...naa, but we probably have read similar material.
He is far more in tune with evolutionary facts than I am...I am more general..



posted on Dec, 23 2010 @ 09:10 PM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 


Honestly it doesn't matter to me whether he was Catholic or Christian, Mein Kampf makes it clear he was a theist of some sort.

I honestly don't think Hitler had any religious motivations although he may have used whatever belief he held to rationalize his actions I don't think his actions were directly driven by his theistic beliefs. In the same way that I don't think any atheist dictators were driven by their atheism to do what they did. Cosmic seems to think that it only matters if they are atheists, hypocrisy is delicious



posted on Dec, 23 2010 @ 09:12 PM
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reply to post by Titen-Sxull
 


Do you disagree that he spent a great deal of effort in looking for religious artefacts then?

I thought that was fairly well agreed upon



posted on Dec, 23 2010 @ 09:12 PM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 


That's rare to me, but if that's the way it affected you then that's the way it affected you. Thing is, when your 6 years old, and you hear somebody literally call your name, and you remember it to this day, you say "how is their not an afterlife?", "how is this possible?" People would say to me "you need to go to a mental hospital", yet I have never heard something call my name clearly out of nothing after that day. I am perfectly fine, and was just a little boy at the time who was baffled and somewhat terrified by that experience. Yet, it happened to me. More than likely it happened for a reason, to put me in the position I am now as a human being living on this Earth. To look back now and still to this day flat out think "wtf." Thinking about that moment right now still leaves me questioning and wondering. There's only one answer to me, you live on after you die. If its true we have a soul and it is energy, energy cannot be created or destroyed, as with matter, so if it's true than by that law we live on. I also don't see how Mother Teresa and Hitler go to the same place



posted on Dec, 23 2010 @ 09:13 PM
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ok folks here is the topic and the question yet again...


Are those who wish to use Darwins Theory of Evolution any different than those of ancient history who have used Religion in general to crusade in the name of their God ?


I hate to bust up everybody's bashing and arguing but can we have a serious topic discussion for just once ?

please...



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