Solution to the Israeli–Palestinian Conflict

Originally posted by The_Phantom
I just showed you that Hezbollah called it a holy war and holy land and it is very clear that Zionist call it holy land, and Conservative Christians view it the same way.

And they are wrong. Seriously, this needs to sink through - That someone has an opinion does not make that opinion valid or factual. The Muslim extremists are peddling religion in order to recruit for their side of a land war. The Jewish Zionists peddle it because it gives a nice sense of justification and superiority for land theft. And the conservative christians just want jesus to come back and massacre all the Jews anyway.

This is no more of a holy war than the Indian wars of the 19th century; god was invoked, and invoked heavily, but it was about killing people so you can take their stuff. God and religion was just a very thin paint job on that.

Your missing the point of why the UN gave them that chunk of land, they could have given them land anywhere, they gave them that land, not because they had been their recently they hadn't lived there in a thousand years, but they were given that land because according to religious belief it was their God given home.

Actually it was because there was already heavy Jewish immigration to the territory, the British could no longer afford to manage the territory in the post-war situation, and Great Britain had previously made a deal with Jewish investors during World War 1. Again, I guess we can see the involvement of Americans in this through a religious lens - Truman is said to have enjoyed taking sole personal credit for the formation of Israel, proclaiming himself "Cyrus," after the Persian king who re-established a Jewish kingdom back in whenever.

However, whatever the reasons of the UN resolution, the conflict is still wholly about land.

A political decision based on a preexisting religious ideas. The reason I say conservative Christians are the biggest supporters of Israel is because I have watched Fox News in the past. I bet they can't go one day without praising Israel. Seriously if you want to see the religious motivations for it just watch Hannity or Glenn Beck. If you want to see why you are wrong, that it is not simply politicians that push the idea, but their entire social and religious makeup on both sides that push the violence then start with this video:

Here's the thing. Conservative christians basically desire death for everyone anyway. Their entire thing in this deal is that they're desperately wishing for the Israelis to kill off lots of Muslims, because conservative Christians hate, fear, and loathe Muslims. When Israel is then Muslim-free, the theory goes, Jesus will come back, and kill all the Jews, just like good ol' St. John says.

We can safely regard their opinion as irrelevant - you don't seriously think that Israelis or Palestinians give a flying hoot what Glen Beck or Pat Robertson thinks, do you?

But even if it was just the politicians that push it as a religious conflict onto the people it is still a religious conflict. Propaganda is useless without a subject. The subject for this conflict is religion. Either way it is still religion that is the problem and source of violence. And its the people believe in God that carries the violence on.

No. Religion is not the problem in this conflict. If both groups were completely atheistic - or more realistically, if both groups were members of the same religion, this conflict would still be in place. Why?

Land. Take away all the vapid religious arguments, and you're still left with one side of the conflict continuously trying to steal land from the other that is fighting to hold onto what they have.

I'm not saying that any of the people that view it like this have the right views, I'm just saying it is what they believe.

And I'm saying that what they believe is wholly irrelevant, because they are. We should not give a damn what Hezbollah, or the Eretz Yisrael crowd, or the apocalypse christians believe, because by holding those beliefs, they have removed themselves from meaningful discourse. None of them will consider the outlooks of another in that trio, and all three will staunchly refuse any proposal that does not hand them absolutely everything they want. Thus their position is irrational and inflexible, and should be wholly discounted, because there is simply no way to accommodate them, and no reason to desire to do so.

Basically, the more someone feels this is a "holy war," the less their opinion really matters.

I also wanted to say that I agree with sunfrat on what the solution is. My argument only is based how to make that happen.

edit on 30-12-2010 by The_Phantom because: (no reason given)

well, the three of us seem in agreement that a single state is either the inevitable or the best conclusion. My disagreement with you, is that you're saying we should lend the greatest weight to the opinions of those people least interested in seeing peaceful resolution.

"There is no reason to care enough to include them in the conversation?" What are you talking about, how are you going to remove people from the conversation that want will strap bombs to their chests and blow people up? You can't remove them from the conversation...They are the conversation. It's people like that on both sides that keep the fighting going. The people that want peace would have peace if it wasn't for the violent religious people on both sides. IF this was any other land you would be right, its just land that people will fight over, but IT IS NOT any other land. If it was then people would just get over it at some point. The people that are killing each other all call it Holy Land for a reason. The people that strap bombs to their chests do it for Allah. You could not be any more right then in your first sentence. "Just because somebody has an opinion does not make that opinion valid or factual." I couldn't agree more, you have an opinion that is different from the Zionist, it is different then Hezbollah, it is different then Hamas, it is different from the Conservative Christians that support Israel. Your opinion is based on broad sweeping arguments on how the world works, not on what the trouble makers in this conflict believe in. 'Take the religious people out of the argument?' They are all religious! No the Palestinians don't care about Glenn Beck, obviously, they care about the Koran. But the Zionists and the Christians that back them sure do care. You are never going to tell these people they don't have a say, the squeaky wheel gets the grease, and they will never be silenced. You can't tell a rouge fanatic not to be a fanatic, he will still be a fanatic and still create a conflict. However you can convince him that his religion does not want him to be that way. If one side took the moral high ground they would be helped by the rest of the world, their religious beliefs won't let them do that, so my suggestion is to change their beliefs. That can happen, I showed you the video of the son of Hamas that flat out said it was all about religion. Yet you sit there on your computer and insist that you know more then the people who are involved. He lived there, I'd say he knows more then you.