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US Army: Atheists Unfit To Serve

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posted on Dec, 25 2010 @ 02:57 PM
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Originally posted by Oldnslo

To Annee. Back in the '60s, before politic correctness, we all served together, whether straight or gay, religious or Atheist, black, white or indifferent. It did not matter as we all had the same goal in mind, staying alive to make it home to friends and family.

Even then we had a place of sanctuary, though not available 24 hours a day. It was called a bunk.



I am 64. I know how things were before the 60s. Everyone fit into the ONE box provided for them by society.

We lived in blind ignorance. The government said: "Jump" - we jumped. We did not have rights to our own medical or school records.

We were OWNED. We were not FREE.

You want to include the Native American code talkers - - - who only recently got recognition? Do you know the story of Ira Hayes?

The "Good Old Days" - - - are only Good because of selective memory.




posted on Dec, 25 2010 @ 03:31 PM
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reply to post by autowrench
 




That article blew my mind. what is the Military creating here, a Holy Crusade? God's Army?


You might have just hit the nail on the head there mate.

Who's *not* our enemies now that the cold war is over? The Soviets/Communists right?

Who's our *new* enemy, (now that the cold war is over!)? Muslims..or so they'd like us to believe, right?

Remember who fought three long crusades against the Muslims?

Yep, Christians...a 'holy army' might be exactly what they're trying for.

Who better to fight the invented enemy? It worked well before, no reason it won't work again.

And just think of all that lovely money that can be made from a protracted war on 'terror' (Muslims)

It stinks.



posted on Dec, 25 2010 @ 04:12 PM
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"You want to include the Native American code talkers - - - who only recently got recognition? Do you know the story of Ira Hayes?"

I've known about him since I was a kid in the middle 1950's. What took you so long?

"The "Good Old Days" - - - are only Good because of selective memory."

Selective memory huh? I'll take the life-styles of the 50's & 60's, even the 70's, any day, compared to what we have today. If you truly think we are better off today, after 40 years of TPTB's "Divide and Conquor" - Politically Correct routine, and the destruction of the US dollar, we'll just have to disagree. Period.



posted on Dec, 25 2010 @ 04:16 PM
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Originally posted by Oldnslo
"You want to include the Native American code talkers - - - who only recently got recognition? Do you know the story of Ira Hayes?"

I've known about him since I was a kid in the middle 1950's. What took you so long?

"The "Good Old Days" - - - are only Good because of selective memory."

Selective memory huh? I'll take the life-styles of the 50's & 60's, even the 70's, any day, compared to what we have today. If you truly think we are better off today, after 40 years of TPTB's "Divide and Conquor" - Politically Correct routine, and the destruction of the US dollar, we'll just have to disagree. Period.


I won't. Prior to the 60's revolution - - life was fake.

Safe - programmed - and comfortable - but still fake.
edit on 25-12-2010 by Annee because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 25 2010 @ 04:20 PM
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Originally posted by Oldnslo
"You want to include the Native American code talkers - - - who only recently got recognition? Do you know the story of Ira Hayes?"

I've known about him since I was a kid in the middle 1950's. What took you so long?


Huh?

You didn't mention him or that Native American code talkers were only recently acknowledged.

I did.



posted on Dec, 25 2010 @ 05:03 PM
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Originally posted by TheBirdisDone
reply to post by autowrench
 


My impression in uniform, if you wanted a smooth career was that you were best off to leave this alone, tuck your faith or lack of it in AND BE THERE TO GET THE JOB DONE. Yeah occassionally you had your devout Commander who would have his little group of believers and they would make a big deal out of it, forming their little gaggle to walk over for service, but you know this distracted - and usually these commanders where not so happily embraced by their own peers and they usually floated around at mid level supervision, these types weren't moving and shaking.

You actually remember SOME types of Protestant Christians - and the Catholics because of the work stoppage NOT the faith. I spent the latter part of my career as a full timer in an Air Guard Unit. The weekenders stopped production flow with the 2/3 hour need to attend service or mass - and by the way the guys and gals on the flightline didn't get the pass to go. That one time a month some of these weekenders were on my time for training it would stop everything. This sort of put me off when I know there are OTHER options to attend mass or service in most cases.

Also they didn't have service for EVERYONE, ie. Jews, Mormons, Buddhists, Pagans, Toaists, New Agers, etc. I guess it was OK for them to continue to work without worship. Catholics especially have multple mass options, why take 3 hours away from training time one Sunday a month?

Actually I wouldn't be a bit surprised in the case of my weekenders if this WAS THE ONLY TIME THEY ATTENDED MASS. It was a whole social thing - wander over gaffing off, stand around and gaff off a little more after service, and gaggle back in time or not for chow - usually they just went to chow and didn't come back. Sometimes this caused a problem because believe or not things do happen during those three hours away, things in which they needed to be aware. This would put me in the position of hunting them down in the dining hall. It was a whole ordeal. Yes I had to oblige them they had the right - but from 9/11 on there was such a sense of urgency in my unit a 365/24/7 tempo and that church time really cut into training that would enable some of these weekenders to be able to stand alone once deployed. Really, honestly - they were not as prepared and did not cope as well when we got over there, missing that training time made a difference.

I thought it was amusing when my unit moved the Protestant service to after work hours, but maintained that three hour mass thing . . . but this was due to where I was located geographically at the time and reflects a high percentage of Catholics in the area - when I was in the south the situation was reversed. Maybe I should also point out that most supervisors with responsiblity who might have wanted to attend got the message they were needed in their work centers.

For all of you who might have just a hard time wrapping your head around it, the devout had a hard time with war. In all my time in uniform I never met anyone that joined up to kill for Jesus. Religious service and practice could actually be a hinderance at times. I am sure there might be some in uniform just are there are some who are not, that believe in a kind of vindication of their faith in these current Wars ~ because in the current situation there is a faith aspect in the culture we are at war with. But in the past it was commies, or Nazis ~ so what it really comes down to is maintaining what ever that "OTHER" is - that other that is "evil" that we are engaging against.


COs like that were taken care of by charlie in vietnam..



posted on Dec, 25 2010 @ 05:46 PM
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Originally posted by facelift
You're confused...a Good soldier is not a programmed tool, but a rational thinker that puts his country before himself.
Sorry my friend. That used to be the definition of a good soldier. There is a new military paradigm now.



posted on Dec, 25 2010 @ 06:54 PM
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Originally posted by C-JEAN
Would it not be nice if soldiers began to think by themselves,
and see that they do NOT fight for the freedom-and-bla-bla-bla,
but that they fight for the oil indu$trie$ ???

Come on ! ! DO connect the dots ! !
See WHERE the fights are, and WHERE the petrol is ! !

Would it not be nice if ALL the soldiers of the world do a GENERAL STRIKE,
same as "normal" employees do ???

And instead of doing wars, they would build "zero point energy" generators,
with ZERO pollution, and save our planet and our lungs
from the constant fogs everywhere ???

Blue skies.


"we'd all be drinkin' that free bubble up and eating that rainbow stew..." Merle Haggard...( 196?)

Soldiers do their jobs because civilians( potus/sec def) order them to.

You don't "do" war; just like you don't "drive" a motorcycle...this polly anna pie in the sky( without any basis in reality ) thinking. makes that post a complete childish fantasy.

edit on 25-12-2010 by 46ACE because: screwed up,.



posted on Dec, 25 2010 @ 08:50 PM
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Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by TheBirdisDone
Also they didn't have service for EVERYONE, ie. Jews, Mormons, Buddhists, Pagans, Toaists, New Agers, etc. I guess it was OK for them to continue to work without worship. Catholics especially have multple mass options, why take 3 hours away from training time one Sunday a month?


I do not support that there needs to be ANY religious services in any place of employment - - which the military is.

I do support there needs to be a sanctuary and non-denominational clerics with psychology backgrounds available for any - all - and every person who feels the need to be connected to their belief. If they have a belief - - they know their belief. They do not need sermons.

There is no reason one room/hall or tent can't serve ALL. It just needs to be open and available 24 hours a day - - for off duty use.

It kind of reminds me of our 24 hour Walmart. I live in a Military base town. You see families with non-school age children shopping at 3 in the morning. They adjust their living hours to those of their work hours.



I totally agree with you and I very much like your Avatar. It brings to mind fun B-52 songs. We could ALL use a SANCTUARY don't you think?




edit on 25-12-2010 by TheBirdisDone because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 25 2010 @ 09:47 PM
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This seems a little questionable.

I have served BTW.

In my experience, the military went out of their way to make all people feel included (minus gays). They even had a Wiccan service and groups that atheists could join to be with other atheists.

This part of the survey seems like one of those surveys they have you fill out for the chaplin's service. It does not mean a damm thing. It's for personal use and for the use of agrigating to get a better hold on the unit at large (they call it the unit culture). They want to make sure they are doing anything they can to make sure they aren't letting people think that they should kill themselves.

"Unfit to serve".... laughable. This sounds like an atheist with a chip on his shoulder. Instead of whining on the internet, this soldier could have brought this to the attention of his first sergeant or to the chaplin's service itself.

The Army doesn't give a flying fff-something whether you believe in jesus as your lord and savior.... just as long as you "shut up and color"(those other veterans out there will know what I am talking about).



You're confused...a Good soldier is not a programmed tool, but a rational thinker that puts his country before himself.


Rational thinkers would never put the interests of their government ahead of their own. Duty, Honor, Country is a euphamism for OBEY.



This is yet another subtle reminder [to my eyes] that the US armed forces are secretly carrying out crusades on behalf of Christendom.


I highly doubt this. I grew up in a religious home. I lost my religion in the military. The US armed forces are secular.... they just like to appear religious so country singers will write songs about them and the religious right will keep paying taxes.



That war was obviously part of an ongoing Holy War/Jihad between Christian Europe/America and Muslim Asia/Africa.


Or pirates.




Let me make this clear to all on ATS..... people in the military are not as brainwashed as those in the civilian world. Look around ATS itself and count the former or current military personnel and you will find there are tons of us. Compared to all the civilians who stand on the sidelines and watch Orielly or Ed or just don't care, Military personnel are waaayyy more awake. The only programming a military member gets is to save his life after his government puts him in a crappy place. We are not robots. We are not a cohesive group. We are as diverse (if not, more so) then the rest of you.



posted on Dec, 25 2010 @ 10:26 PM
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Originally posted by freedish
In my experience......most of the atheists I've encountered are extremely arrogant and facetious, and prideful.



Funny how you would list these exact traits, then go on to say that you wouldn't trust someone who isn't a believer. If only Jesus had left you some sort of message about how to treat those who believe differently than you... oh wait, he did:


Behold, a certain lawyer stood up and tested him, saying, "Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?"

He said to him, "What is written in the law? How do you read it?"

He answered, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind [Deuteronomy 6:5]; and your neighbor as yourself [Leviticus 19:18]."

He said to him, "You have answered correctly. Do this, and you will live."

But he, desiring to justify himself, asked Jesus, "Who is my neighbor?"

Jesus answered, "A certain man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and he fell among robbers, who both stripped him and beat him, and departed, leaving him half dead. By chance a certain priest was going down that way. When he saw him, he passed by on the other side. In the same way a Levite also, when he came to the place, and saw him, passed by on the other side. But a certain Samaritan, as he traveled, came where he was. When he saw him, he was moved with compassion, came to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring on oil and wine. He set him on his own animal, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him. On the next day, when he departed, he took out two denarii, and gave them to the host, and said to him, 'Take care of him. Whatever you spend beyond that, I will repay you when I return.' Now which of these three do you think seemed to be a neighbor to him who fell among the robbers?"

He said, "He who showed mercy on him."

Then Jesus said to him, "Go and do likewise."


Over 2,000 years later, and people still aren't getting the message.


edit on 25-12-2010 by Torgo because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 12:56 PM
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reply to post by Torgo
 

You're right and I probably shouldn't have said what I did...I think I was frustrated with someone who was an atheist at the time and I was taking my frustration out here. The bible says to walk in the spirit but it isn't always easy. Jesus never said following Him would be. But I thank you for rebuking me brother.



posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 05:40 PM
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reply to post by DINSTAAR
 


Oh AMEN! - Thanks for bringing your obvious intellegence to this topic!!!



posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 06:38 PM
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I think you people are missing the point, the benefit of theistic believe in the army extend beyond the "can/can't think for themselves" stereotypes... Its primary value shines on the battlefield, a soldier whom believe there's an afterlife will display often more courage remark I said "often" and not "always" so atheist keep reading before hammering the REPLY/QUOTE button...

Many soldiers even war experienced ones at one time in their career will crack up they'll sit at the bottom of the trench screaming about they are all about to die, its not easy keeping cold blood when there's bullets sizzling a couple inches away from your head and your see your brothers next to you dieing one by one... The belief that there's something higher, bigger then them when all hope is lost and your are completely surrounded and running low on ammo is vital and WILL make a difference. In the end of it when a atheist sits down and "thinks rationally" like they love to say and look around, does a man's headcount realize he's outnumbered 10:1, ammos are starting to be rare and the enemy is closing in he will do anything that anyone will do when he realize all hope is gone... He'll sit down then trench and wait to be captured... Some will decide to fight to death but they are rare, and please if your a kid playing call of duty saying "I'M ATHEIST AND I WOULD FIGHT TO DEATH" and you have NO CLUE of what it is to sit in a trench bathing in your brothers blood is... just be cute and quiet... You'd likely sh!t in your pants...

Thats where the theist comes into play, that soldier sitting down who's just cracking under pressure sitting at the bottom of the trench rocking himself back and forth saying he loves his mama and doesn't want to die. If you'd be in command and would have to talk him into getting up and keep fighting because his lack of action is endangering the whole squad what would you rather him being??? a Atheist or a Theist??? Remember they but just lost all hope... the only thing remaining is God!

Its easy to give up when all hope is gone, and its easy to put up a hell of a last stand when you believe life won't just end there no matter what happens its not the end.



posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 11:17 PM
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reply to post by _R4t_
 


You are entitled to believe whatever you want.

But I sure get tired of god believers telling me what and how I think.

Its too bad god believers can't or won't understand "what one contributes to life" - "to this world" - - is what its about.

Not a reward for their actions after death.

edit on 26-12-2010 by Annee because: (no reason given)



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