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US Army: Atheists Unfit To Serve

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posted on Dec, 24 2010 @ 10:47 AM
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reply to post by whaaa
 


I heard this on the radio yesterday. I think it is just an excuse to reduce the Christian population.

Good way to get out of the military, though, should they impose a draft.




edit on 24-12-2010 by GirlGenius because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 24 2010 @ 10:48 AM
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Originally posted by mike184ever
reply to post by Annee
 


read your own posts...and btw its about a guy in the army


I know what the thread is about.

I have no idea what your last post was about.



posted on Dec, 24 2010 @ 10:50 AM
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Originally posted by FarArcher
I seriously doubt that this is what disqualifies him as fit.

Sounds like a misdirection on the part of the soldier.

To the contrary, I much rather share the point in combat with an atheist than a freak who's looking forward to the next transition.

The atheist is more likely to be careful and not draw unwarranted attention to our situation, whereas the one who's looking forward to the next transition will not hesitate to draw unnecessary fire.

And I've been shot at a whole lot.

Never really got comfortable with it.


"never got comfortable with it"...i almost spit out my morning coffee...dry wit keeps me coming back, thanks for a macabre moment of humor.



posted on Dec, 24 2010 @ 10:52 AM
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reply to post by whaaa
 


Well I have seen reseacrh that proves that those that have a faith fare better than those who do not by a factor of 10 percent. I also remeber seeing it in time magazine a few years ago. War can generate intense adversity for individuals anyway. Being an atheist my show a greater tendency for a lack of resilience necessary for survival and execution of orders according to the military. Anyway the military is a law unto itself.


edit on 24-12-2010 by tiger5 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 24 2010 @ 10:59 AM
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I, for one, believe that US pols are unfit to 'serve'. They have shown their form of theism, and that is nothing less than the love of money, subjugation, and power. Since these luciferian villains believe it is their right to expand their personal powers using the egregious misuse of technology, and do in fact control where their little god lovers point their weapons, this is nothing but another propaganda technique. They are so Godless, that they believe they can con God. They are in for a surprise.



posted on Dec, 24 2010 @ 12:49 PM
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Originally posted by mike184ever
reply to post by TheBirdisDone
 


exactly....better know your mission statement and general orders and never question them. Keep your head on striat.
Now to the point. A soldier doesnt serve for the money, not in a time of war. So its for God and Country right. Well not in his case. Which goes back to your point of what is his understanding of the mission statement and general orders break down. ie ,his country.....there is no God part to fall back on,is there. The guilt felt that keeps most people from commiting atrocities. yeah I think you nailed it


Actually many soldiers do serve for the money, the educational benefits and the health insurance. Some get in and discover it is not for them - but might have a sick child that would never be provided health care outside of tri-care so they stay for the benefits. Quite a few of these stories in the ranks. Also I hate to bring this up but there is more to the military then the Army - and not all people who serve or see combat are "soldiers" - I served in the Navy and the Air Force. One thing I can say about the Navy is you are trained to adapt and overcome across that service based on the limited amount of people that fit onboard a ship. Make no mistake about it there are some brillant minds in the Navy.Yeah there are a lot of dumb looking squids that go on shore leave in shorts with black sox and athletic shoes too, but even those guys might be amoung some of the smartest people you would hope to meet - they are just nerds. But yes, the Navy needs it's paint peelers too - they are called undesignated seamen and they usually do one hitch only.

I also want to say I don't know ANY people in the Air Force that don't think for themselves - in fact the exact opposite and at times to the determent of getting the mission accomplished, or even in a few cases individuals thinking they were smart enough to show off in a cockpit resulting in a loss of Aircraft. This is referred to as pilot error, sometimes it is pilot showboat error. I worked in a career field where you had to be quite intelligent, and have a clean record for the job/clearance - so maybe I was isolated from all these soldiers most posters on this thread claim can't think for themselves and are all in it to kill for Jesus. It seems many posters here know what they know about the military from watching movies or knowing some Army guy at the end of the block, who probably only managed to serve 2 years before something happened - usually a government screw over - and he aint the brightest bulb so you just lump em all in that catagory.

I can't blame anyone for this. I heard so much disinfo about the service growing up from my own family, like if you couldn't do anything else you could always join the service. I was absolutely continually amazed a the level of intelligence I ran into in fellow service members. Of course you have your situations that make the news that make us all look like murdering, raping scum with the intellegence of a toad. Let me tell you that stuff rubs the fur the wrong way for us too!

Something else . . . that I notice. I have been to War a couple of times, served 21 years and I don't have bling all over my vehicle, don't talk sh*t about it at the VFW or to anyone that will listen or have a wall in my home decorated with all my awards. (The "I Love Me wall" - you military posters will know what I mean!) I don't claim to be special forces or unique in anyway. I am a person who served. I can't even tell you what all my fruit salad with boogers is for. (ie. my Ribbon Rack) Some people that are "blarring" it all over town with stickers or service plates did only 4 years and they talk too much which doesn't help Joe Civilian get a true picture of what the military is all about. There is so much more to military service then the first 4 years. The dumb ones don't usually stick around because the job becomes more demanding especially when you move into a supervisory role.

But I raise my hand here from the "back of the room" to let you know that I as one service member did not join so I could kill for Jesus. I joined because of a genuine interest in being "serious" and went into a very "serious" field of work after finding I could not find much that was serious in the outside world or on my college campus. I was also interested in a lot of the topics on this site and knew the only way to discover some of the answers was to join up myself, open my ears, buy the beers and observe - and let me tell you it was a very interesting career.
edit on 24-12-2010 by TheBirdisDone because: clarity

edit on 24-12-2010 by TheBirdisDone because: (no reason given)

edit on 24-12-2010 by TheBirdisDone because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 24 2010 @ 02:13 PM
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Originally posted by freedish

Originally posted by unityemissions
What I find ridiculous is that people think being an atheist automatically makes someone not have "spiritual" values. What is morality but spiritual values? The majority of atheists I've encountered are much higher in moral fiber than theists.


If you believe in 'spiritual values', then you believe in a 'spirit realm'. And if you believe in a 'spiritual realm' than you believe in 'spirits'. And if you believe in 'spirits' then you believe in a creator of spirits because there is no logical or scientific data to back claim up other than faith. And then I would say welcome to Christianity, Jesus is our savior.


These are bizarre, illogical assumptions that have no basis in reality. I understand that you're blinded by your beliefs, but please try to attempt a more rational approach in the future.

I am agnostic, and highly spiritual. Any form of morality is spiritual in nature. In a broad sense, spirituality means but the desire to be in service of others, even if at the expense of ones self. There is no need to involve anything other than what is, physically to rationally explain this.

Our species has evolved to learn the values of helping each other out. We have learned that to do so may work out in a synergistic way. It is most easily expressed instinctively as maternal and paternal support of parents for their offspring. The family unit is strong when it holds these instinctual values in heart and mind. Over time, we learned to expand this perceived family unit to ever widening community structures. This is a natural progression of our species, and entirely logical.



posted on Dec, 24 2010 @ 02:21 PM
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Originally posted by unityemissions
I am agnostic, and highly spiritual. Any form of morality is spiritual in nature. In a broad sense, spirituality means but the desire to be in service of others, even if at the expense of ones self. There is no need to involve anything other than what is, physically to rationally explain this.


If you're calling for a rational explanation, why then are you calling "spiritual" that which is otherwise defined by the term "empathy" or, as you put it: "morality"? Though I find "spiritual" a useless word anyway (mostly because it's defined differently by everyone), why are you attributing aspects to the word that have absolutely nothing to do with the root of the word: "spirit"?


Spiritual
–adjective
1.
of, pertaining to, or consisting of spirit; incorporeal.


Spirituality is 'service to others even if at the expense of ones self'?



posted on Dec, 24 2010 @ 02:27 PM
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reply to post by traditionaldrummer
 


Because it's the only way in which the term makes any actual sense to me. I don't much care for traditional definitions, usually. I prefer direct experience and understanding of the reasons such words are used amongst the majority of people. Not necessarily how they intend to use them, but what they truly mean behind what they say, regardless of being consciously aware of this, or not. Does this make sense to you?

Also, I think the correct term you're looking for is compassion, and not empathy.
edit on 24-12-2010 by unityemissions because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 24 2010 @ 02:38 PM
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Originally posted by unityemissions
reply to post by traditionaldrummer
 


Because it's the only way in which the term makes any actual sense to me. I don't much care for traditional definitions, usually. I prefer direct experience and understanding of the reasons such words are used amongst the majority of people. Not necessarily how they intend to use them, but what they truly mean behind what they say, regardless of being consciously aware of this, or not. Does this make sense to you?

Also, I think the correct term you're looking for is compassion, and not empathy.
edit on 24-12-2010 by unityemissions because: (no reason given)


Sure, compassion would work also. Humanist/ism would also work. I only find it odd because if someone were to describe themselves as "spiritual" your definition would definitely not be anything close to what I think is implied in the word. And in many ways I think your definition describes certain aspects of myself, though I'd never call myself "spiritual". Oh well... sorry for the tangent....



posted on Dec, 24 2010 @ 03:00 PM
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Originally posted by whaaa


Sgt. Justin Griffith, Fort Bragg, NC. The US Army distributes a mandatory survey called an SFT, which stands for “Soldier Fitness Tracker”. The purpose of this survey is to measure an individual soldier’s competency in four areas, Emotional, Social, Family and Spiritual. Justin is an atheist, as well as a highly dedicated soldier, but according to the SFT, he is “unfit” to serve specifically because he is a non-believer.

I can understand the Army's stance. If a person dosen't buy into the current popular paradigm and rejects authority;
How can you make a good soldier that is programed to follow orders. The army isn't a place for critical thinking and debate. However if there had of been more critical thinking by the top brass concerning our current wars; we wouldn't be in the sad shape we find ourselves in.


This is wonderful.
Now if all parents bring up their children as atheists, there will be no more wars



posted on Dec, 25 2010 @ 04:48 AM
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reply to post by mike184ever
 


There is nothing in that oath which states that you protect and serve God.
You swear an oath of allegience to the constitution and the president.
God is used as a witness to the oath and nothing more.



posted on Dec, 25 2010 @ 05:33 AM
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Originally posted by BlackOps719
It is much easier to convince a man to take a persons life if you can convince them that it is god's will, or that they are fighting on the side of god. This tactic is nothing new under the sun. In fact it has been a necessary tool of war mongers since the days of Zeuss and Appollo.

The military doesn't want free thinking men and women, they have no interest in those who are well versed and not easily manipulated. They want soldiers who will do as they are told, and if this means killing men, women and children half way across the world they don't want people who will question "why".

Because "god" says so, that's why.



I disagree.

I think it would be much easier to convince a soldier to commit murder by telling him or her that there is *no* god.

After all, 'god's' supposed position on murder of a fellow human being is pretty established isn't it?!

'Thou shalt *not* kill' pretty much sums that one up.

The religious controllers *cannot* have it both ways, either god has given *crystal clear*, completely unambiguous instructions on the topic of humans murdering other humans, or he/she hasn't!

It is *not* written, 'Thou shalt not kill, unless your commanding officer orders you to, then go ahead, kill and maim as many of the bastards as humanly possible'...it's simply..'Thou shalt *not* kill'.

If a devout believer becomes a soldier, it's pretty much a given that soldier will hesitate, and possibly refuse to murder another person, for fear of divine retribution or eternal damnation of his or her soul for breaking the will of their god.

A *non* believer on the other hand, although just as humane or morally directed as the believer may be, will not have such impediments to murdering, no fear of a god taking revenge for going against his (or her) word..no sacrificing of the soul and eternal damnation, no worries about any of that stuff.

Not that they might not hesitate at the crucial moment, they might, but for very different or less reasons than the religious guy might have.

When i was in the British Army, it was clear they wanted both those that would/could follow orders issued, but also wanted individuals that would be able to think and act independently of command.
Robots need not apply basically.

That is why the British army is the best army in the world...it's about quality personnel and training. The only thing the British army lacked and still lacks, is top notch equipment. It's a crying shame that our army is sent into battle with sub standard kit and equipment...but that's pretty much how it always has been over here.

The US army on the other hand, has probably *the* best equipped army in the world. The quality of the training and the apparent desire for automatons rather than thinking soldiers is not the best.

If the US adopted our standards and training, coupled with their equipment and kit, they would be the best in the world.

Either army, would fight irrespective of being atheists if the personnel were convinced their loved one's were in peril from the enemy. Thinking that the whole 'god' business, is just a perverted business wouldn't matter in the least.



posted on Dec, 25 2010 @ 08:33 AM
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reply to post by jimmyx
 


Jimmy I am with you on this FarArcher guy. Either he is 12 and talking paintball or he smoked out in AIT and got fired. Just not a very mature position. Really, because a guy believes in god he is ready to die and move on so he does the heric save the whole war manuvor.
Look mr. Farpaintballer its not hard to find where the Atheist rule came from in the military, we arent fighting Commies anymore and if our whitehouse keeps the same guy in living there, we will be commies pretty soon. Either way the Atheist will get to stay once a big stink has its day in court. Jeeesus only a christian can act under fire,MY BACK SIDE.....FarNurfShooter, hey man, its America,you can say anything you want.......talk about spitting coffee,good one Jimmy



posted on Dec, 25 2010 @ 08:56 AM
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reply to post by whaaa
 


That article blew my mind. what is the Military creating here, a Holy Crusade? God's Army? When I was in the Army, I was openly a Wiccan, everyone in my Company knew it. I never got any teasing or hazing about it at all, in fact, I was not the only one. Church was optional, one did not have to attend.



posted on Dec, 25 2010 @ 01:08 PM
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reply to post by autowrench
 


My impression in uniform, if you wanted a smooth career was that you were best off to leave this alone, tuck your faith or lack of it in AND BE THERE TO GET THE JOB DONE. Yeah occassionally you had your devout Commander who would have his little group of believers and they would make a big deal out of it, forming their little gaggle to walk over for service, but you know this distracted - and usually these commanders where not so happily embraced by their own peers and they usually floated around at mid level supervision, these types weren't moving and shaking.

You actually remember SOME types of Protestant Christians - and the Catholics because of the work stoppage NOT the faith. I spent the latter part of my career as a full timer in an Air Guard Unit. The weekenders stopped production flow with the 2/3 hour need to attend service or mass - and by the way the guys and gals on the flightline didn't get the pass to go. That one time a month some of these weekenders were on my time for training it would stop everything. This sort of put me off when I know there are OTHER options to attend mass or service in most cases.

Also they didn't have service for EVERYONE, ie. Jews, Mormons, Buddhists, Pagans, Toaists, New Agers, etc. I guess it was OK for them to continue to work without worship. Catholics especially have multple mass options, why take 3 hours away from training time one Sunday a month?

Actually I wouldn't be a bit surprised in the case of my weekenders if this WAS THE ONLY TIME THEY ATTENDED MASS. It was a whole social thing - wander over gaffing off, stand around and gaff off a little more after service, and gaggle back in time or not for chow - usually they just went to chow and didn't come back. Sometimes this caused a problem because believe or not things do happen during those three hours away, things in which they needed to be aware. This would put me in the position of hunting them down in the dining hall. It was a whole ordeal. Yes I had to oblige them they had the right - but from 9/11 on there was such a sense of urgency in my unit a 365/24/7 tempo and that church time really cut into training that would enable some of these weekenders to be able to stand alone once deployed. Really, honestly - they were not as prepared and did not cope as well when we got over there, missing that training time made a difference.

I thought it was amusing when my unit moved the Protestant service to after work hours, but maintained that three hour mass thing . . . but this was due to where I was located geographically at the time and reflects a high percentage of Catholics in the area - when I was in the south the situation was reversed. Maybe I should also point out that most supervisors with responsiblity who might have wanted to attend got the message they were needed in their work centers.

For all of you who might have just a hard time wrapping your head around it, the devout had a hard time with war. In all my time in uniform I never met anyone that joined up to kill for Jesus. Religious service and practice could actually be a hinderance at times. I am sure there might be some in uniform just are there are some who are not, that believe in a kind of vindication of their faith in these current Wars ~ because in the current situation there is a faith aspect in the culture we are at war with. But in the past it was commies, or Nazis ~ so what it really comes down to is maintaining what ever that "OTHER" is - that other that is "evil" that we are engaging against.



posted on Dec, 25 2010 @ 01:35 PM
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Originally posted by TheBirdisDone
Also they didn't have service for EVERYONE, ie. Jews, Mormons, Buddhists, Pagans, Toaists, New Agers, etc. I guess it was OK for them to continue to work without worship. Catholics especially have multple mass options, why take 3 hours away from training time one Sunday a month?


I do not support that there needs to be ANY religious services in any place of employment - - which the military is.

I do support there needs to be a sanctuary and non-denominational clerics with psychology backgrounds available for any - all - and every person who feels the need to be connected to their belief. If they have a belief - - they know their belief. They do not need sermons.

There is no reason one room/hall or tent can't serve ALL. It just needs to be open and available 24 hours a day - - for off duty use.

It kind of reminds me of our 24 hour Walmart. I live in a Military base town. You see families with non-school age children shopping at 3 in the morning. They adjust their living hours to those of their work hours.



posted on Dec, 25 2010 @ 02:19 PM
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Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by mike184ever
reply to post by traditionaldrummer
 


study the theory of .... define theory...like my theory of a deity........much the same,No? No Proof,Yes .....Take your soldier boy's case to congress, where they still pray.


No. A scientific theory is not the same as the layman's idea of a theory being simply an idea or hypothesis. A scientific theory is a fact. It explains certain processes and predicts new discoveries. It is the graduation point of the sciences. Like I said, you probably should brush up a bit on basic scientific knowledge.


"A scientific theory is a fact." Ah, maybe you can run that by me again. A theory is just that, and in no way is it a scientific "fact". Got an extra brush?

To Annee. Back in the '60s, before politic correctness, we all served together, whether straight or gay, religious or Atheist, black, white or indifferent. It did not matter as we all had the same goal in mind, staying alive to make it home to friends and family.

Even then we had a place of sanctuary, though not available 24 hours a day. It was called a bunk.



posted on Dec, 25 2010 @ 02:28 PM
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Originally posted by facelift
reply to post by whaaa
 


How can you make a good soldier that is programed to follow orders.





You're confused...a Good soldier is not a programmed tool, but a rational thinker that puts his country before himself.


It's that simple...and as to the SFT - complete crap...




if he puts his country before himself he will turn his gun on the senate and all the other zionist stooges.



posted on Dec, 25 2010 @ 02:39 PM
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Several studies have shown CLEAR differences in those whom are religious, (source = google.com) and those whom are not. The non-religious group always came out the CLEAR winner in the intelligence department.

...SO... obviously if atheists were considered "unfit" for the Army, than CLEARLY it is because the Army desires the non-thinking types to be in their clan.

It is simple to create killing machines free of any concern, grief, or guilt when they make great candidates for the religious brainwashing including that they are doing the "deeds" and "work" of "God", and that this "God" is smiling down upon them even when killing women and children if they are of a different religion. Add the "God" brainwashing with the country patriotism/pride, etc and you have the complete package.

Non-thinking dummies, make good killing machines...



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