US Army: Atheists Unfit To Serve

alstefanelli.wordpress.com...

Sgt. Justin Griffith, Fort Bragg, NC. The US Army distributes a mandatory survey called an SFT, which stands for “Soldier Fitness Tracker”. The purpose of this survey is to measure an individual soldier’s competency in four areas, Emotional, Social, Family and Spiritual. Justin is an atheist, as well as a highly dedicated soldier, but according to the SFT, he is “unfit” to serve specifically because he is a non-believer.

I can understand the Army's stance. If a person dosen't buy into the current popular paradigm and rejects authority;
How can you make a good soldier that is programed to follow orders. The army isn't a place for critical thinking and debate. However if there had of been more critical thinking by the top brass concerning our current wars; we wouldn't be in the sad shape we find ourselves in.

costofwar.com...

It probably goes back to conscientious objection.

What I find ridiculous is that people think being an atheist automatically makes someone not have "spiritual" values. What is morality but spiritual values? The majority of atheists I've encountered are much higher in moral fiber than theists.

reply to post by whaaa


How can you make a good soldier that is programed to follow orders.





You're confused...a Good soldier is not a programmed tool, but a rational thinker that puts his country before himself.


It's that simple...and as to the SFT - complete crap...

My oh My oh My - and what will they do with the Solider who loses his faith because of War - which is NOT at all uncommon. Will they determine that this "loss" was caused by an underlying personality disorder or will they grant that perhaps PTSD caused by the mulitple traumas of War may have induced said solider to question their faith? What a sticky whicket.

Would it not be nice if soldiers began to think by themselves,
and see that they do NOT fight for the freedom-and-bla-bla-bla,
but that they fight for the oil indu$trie$ ???

Come on ! ! DO connect the dots ! !
See WHERE the fights are, and WHERE the petrol is ! !

Would it not be nice if ALL the soldiers of the world do a GENERAL STRIKE,
same as "normal" employees do ???

And instead of doing wars, they would build "zero point energy" generators,
with ZERO pollution, and save our planet and our lungs
from the constant fogs everywhere ???

Blue skies.

It is much easier to convince a man to take a persons life if you can convince them that it is god's will, or that they are fighting on the side of god. This tactic is nothing new under the sun. In fact it has been a necessary tool of war mongers since the days of Zeuss and Appollo.

The military doesn't want free thinking men and women, they have no interest in those who are well versed and not easily manipulated. They want soldiers who will do as they are told, and if this means killing men, women and children half way across the world they don't want people who will question "why".

Because "god" says so, that's why.

I seriously doubt that this is what disqualifies him as fit.

Sounds like a misdirection on the part of the soldier.

To the contrary, I much rather share the point in combat with an atheist than a freak who's looking forward to the next transition.

The atheist is more likely to be careful and not draw unwarranted attention to our situation, whereas the one who's looking forward to the next transition will not hesitate to draw unnecessary fire.

And I've been shot at a whole lot.

Never really got comfortable with it.

This is yet another subtle reminder [to my eyes] that the US armed forces are secretly carrying out crusades on behalf of Christendom. Conspiracy theorists that see Washington, London and Rome as part of a triad of co-conspirators will see what I mean and explain it better than I. All that I can contribute is this; remember that the first foreign war fought by America was against the Muslims on the Barbary Coast. That war was obviously part of an ongoing Holy War/Jihad between Christian Europe/America and Muslim Asia/Africa.

Guess some things never change.. Got alot of hassle back in the 60s due to being buddhist and refusing to carry a weapon when was in... and even with having did 4 tours in vietnam got passed over for promotion because wasnt christian..

Where exactly did it say he was unfit to serve or that his atheism would even be an issue with joining?

As an atheist I'd have to agree. We don't want cognitive, rational people in the military who can identify B.S. when they see it. If you're willing to believe people are born of virgins and rise from the dead you're also likely to believe that killing people for your country and your god is acceptable also. The numbskulls can go fight while the thinking individuals can stay home and work to progress the nation.

Does it say anywhere that an atheist gets kicked out of he scores in the "red bar"? No, it doesn't. Do you think maybe there's more to it than just being an atheist? I know many atheists in the armed services. It's kind of like when my employer forced us 'top' managers to take the Myers Briggs test. My boss was really into to going around saying, "You feel this way because you are an INTJ." I told her, fine, if that helps her categorize the world for herself, but I think casting astrology charts would be just as valid.

Companies (and armies, I guess) do this kind of silly stuff all the time. One fad leads to another. Quality circles, Total Quality Management, Who moved the cheese? One minute Manager. PHB's sometimes feel inspired by this stuff when almost every worker knows it's nonsense. If a score like this were used in a soldier's FITREP and he was denied re-enlistment that would be one thing, but there is no evidence, at least so far, that this is taken that seriously.

Originally posted by traditionaldrummer
As an atheist I'd have to agree. We don't want cognitive, rational people in the military who can identify B.S. when they see it. If you're willing to believe people are born of virgins and rise from the dead you're also likely to believe that killing people for your country and your god is acceptable also. The numbskulls can go fight while the thinking individuals can stay home and work to progress the nation.

Well there ARE cognitive, rational people in the military that can identify BS when they see it - they are the ones that come home with the worst cases of Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. Also "intelligence" is not service specific - there is a lot of variety in the service as far as branch, mission and agenda goes. I can promise you there are some speciality jobs in the service that demand very high IQ.

Some of the most intelligent folks I've known in life wore a uniform, even - gasp - whisper - Ivy League graduates! Be they pilots, computer nerds, Navy Nukes or cryptologists. Yeah there are some low intelligence types to be sure that unfortunately end up peeling paint off ships or on the front lines. But to generalize that several hundered thousand people (millions over the last decade) that wear or have worn a uniform can't think for themselves is stretching it a bit don't cha think?

Originally posted by TheBirdisDone
But to generalize that the several hundered thousand people that wear a uniform can't think for themselves is stretching it a bit.

Indeed it was, and admittedly I was stirring the pudding with my comments. There are plenty of veterans in my family who are most assuredly not unintelligent. Let's just say that the state has always recognized there is value in religious beliefs... and its military can benefit from it in many ways.

My lack of religious belief never interfered with my military career. Actually, the only interference came from the keyboard jockey who had a difficult time typing "NONE" for religious my preference. My clearances were approved easily, and I had some nice assignments.

reply to post by facelift


Yet, the military is full of plenty of programmed tools, like those that don't see Iraqis as human beings.

If anything, the MENTAL health of a soldier is far more important than their spiritual beliefs.

reply to post by unityemissions

The majority of atheists I've encountered are much higher in moral fiber than theists.

I was just about to say the same thing.

The hypocrisy in the religions I have encountered has turned me completely off any religion. Morality has nothing to do with religion but you will never convince the religious that someone could behave ethically without being afraid of retaliation by a "higher being"

reply to post by The Sword


Yet, the military is full of plenty of programmed tools, like those that don't see Iraqis as human beings.





Wait - I think your generalization sucks...yes, the military has within it's ranks twisted individuals.


But to say the military is full of them reeks of poo poo - please tell me you generalized incorrectly...





If anything, the MENTAL health of a soldier is far more important than their spiritual beliefs.


Agreed...

Originally posted by facelift
reply to post by whaaa

 

How can you make a good soldier that is programed to follow orders.

You're confused...a Good soldier is not a programmed tool, but a rational thinker that puts his country before himself.


It's that simple...and as to the SFT - complete crap...

A soldier isn't a programmed tool? Hmmm, I didn't know that. What are all those drills for? They aren't supposed to have thoughts of their own. They are there to take orders and obey...for the most part.