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Payed goverment disinformation shills.

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posted on Dec, 24 2010 @ 07:51 AM
(hears thrown objects hitting the walls and yelling, sticks his head in the door and finds an insult argument in play and the subject is proof of paid disinfo/propaganda positions)

There is a very active government agency,
that has an entire department which takes up almost an entire floor, (right around 112,500 sq ft)
that has massive funding, and the latest and greatest technology,
who not only gather and monitor all forms of communication but
also respond to and release all forms of information as well.
It is done anywhere you'll find people.
It is done in any scenario you will find people communicating.
It is most popular and active during pre-conflict and initial conflict situations/locations,
It is selective and deliberate in employ.
Although 'everything' is of interest, not 'everything' is tracked.
There are three internet departments within one electronic division,
Foreign, Domestic, Government.
There are then specialized departments within,
Internet forums for example.
Depending on your position and level, you will either monitor, (hundreds of employees)
monitor and respond, (dozens of employees)
or design and launch. (a select group containing very few).
Employee turnover is nil to none, the pay and benefits are amazing,
the responsibilities increase expotentially from level to level as do the stressors,
exiting the agency at elevated levels of employment is also very stressful and involves procedure and extended post employ monitoring.
No doubt that words within this post have triggered a monitor,
No doubt that words within this thread have triggered a reply,
No doubt at all that this site has incurred design/launch.
And finally, no doubt, should it be desired, my identity is fully known within minutes of me posting.
Those asking for proof that such activity exists are either genuine in their request because they really dont understand the depth of the operations going on around them,
or are monitor/reply.
One will be satisfied with a W2 or pay stub which they'll never see,
the other....................Already knows.

Below is some good informative reading,
(and no, I do not work for the national softball association)

How to detect paid disinfo agents on different Forums?
Twenty-Five Ways To Suppress Truth: The Rules of Disinformation

Note: The first rule and last five (or six, depending on situation) rules are generally not directly within the ability of the traditional disinfo artist to apply. These rules are generally used more directly by those at the leadership, key players, or planning level of the criminal conspiracy or conspiracy to cover up.

1. Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil. Regardless of what you know, don't discuss it -- especially if you are a public figure, news anchor, etc. If it's not reported, it didn't happen, and you never have to deal with the issues.

2. Become incredulous and indignant. Avoid discussing key issues and instead focus on side issues which can be used show the topic as being critical of some otherwise sacrosanct group or theme. This is also known as the 'How dare you!' gambit.

3. Create rumor mongers. Avoid discussing issues by describing all charges, regardless of venue or evidence, as mere rumors and wild accusations. Other derogatory terms mutually exclusive of truth may work as well. This method which works especially well with a silent press, because the only way the public can learn of the facts are through such 'arguable rumors'. If you can associate the material with the Internet, use this fact to certify it a 'wild rumor' from a 'bunch of kids on the Internet' which can have no basis in fact.

4. Use a straw man. Find or create a seeming element of your opponent's argument which you can easily knock down to make yourself look good and the opponent to look bad. Either make up an issue you may safely imply exists based on your interpretation of the opponent/opponent arguments/situation, or select the weakest aspect of the weakest charges. Amplify their significance and destroy them in a way which appears to debunk all the charges, real and fabricated alike, while actually avoiding discussion of the real issues.

5. Sidetrack opponents with name calling and ridicule. This is also known as the primary 'attack the messenger' ploy, though other methods qualify as variants of that approach. Associate opponents with unpopular titles such as 'kooks', 'right-wing', 'liberal', 'left-wing', 'terrorists', 'conspiracy buffs', 'radicals', 'militia', 'racists', 'religious fanatics', 'sexual deviates', and so forth. This makes others shrink from support out of fear of gaining the same label, and you avoid dealing with issues.

6. Hit and Run. In any public forum, make a brief attack of your opponent or the opponent position and then scamper off before an answer can be fielded, or simply ignore any answer. This works extremely well in Internet and letters-to-the-editor environments where a steady stream of new identities can be called upon without having to explain criticism, reasoning -- simply make an accusation or other attack, never discussing issues, and never answering any subsequent response, for that would dignify the opponent's viewpoint.

7. Question motives. Twist or amplify any fact which could be taken to imply that the opponent operates out of a hidden personal agenda or other bias. This avoids discussing issues and forces the accuser on the defensive.

8. Invoke authority. Claim for yourself or associate yourself with authority and present your argument with enough 'jargon' and 'minutia' to illustrate you are 'one who knows', and simply say it isn't so without discussing issues or demonstrating concretely why or citing sources.

9. Play Dumb. No matter what evidence or logical argument is offered, avoid discussing issues except with denials they have any credibility, make any sense, provide any proof, contain or make a point, have logic, or support a conclusion. Mix well for maximum effect.

10. Associate opponent charges with old news. A derivative of the straw man -- usually, in any large-scale matter of high visibility, someone will make charges early on which can be or were already easily dealt with - a kind of investment for the future should the matter not be so easily contained.) Where it can be foreseen, have your own side raise a straw man issue and have it dealt with early on as part of the initial contingency plans. Subsequent charges, regardless of validity or new ground uncovered, can usually then be associated with the original charge and dismissed as simply being a rehash without need to address current issues -- so much the better where the opponent is or was involved with the original source.

11. Establish and rely upon fall-back positions. Using a minor matter or element of the facts, take the 'high road' and 'confess' with candor that some innocent mistake, in hindsight, was made -- but that opponents have seized on the opportunity to blow it all out of proportion and imply greater criminalities which, 'just isn't so.' Others can reinforce this on your behalf, later, and even publicly 'call for an end to the nonsense' because you have already 'done the right thing.' Done properly, this can garner sympathy and respect for 'coming clean' and 'owning up' to your mistakes without addressing more serious issues.

12. Enigmas have no solution. Drawing upon the overall umbrella of events surrounding the crime and the multitude of players and events, paint the entire affair as too complex to solve. This causes those otherwise following the matter to begin to lose interest more quickly without having to address the actual issues.

13. Alice in Wonderland Logic. Avoid discussion of the issues by reasoning backwards or with an apparent deductive logic
which forbears any actual material fact.

14. Demand complete solutions. Avoid the issues by requiring opponents to solve the crime at hand completely, a ploy which works best with issues qualifying for rule 10.

15. Fit the facts to alternate conclusions. This requires creative thinking unless the crime was planned with contingency conclusions in place.

16. Vanish evidence and witnesses. If it does not exist, it is not fact, and you won't have to address the issue.

17. Change the subject. Usually in connection with one of the other ploys listed here, find a way to side-track the discussion with abrasive or controversial comments in hopes of turning attention to a new, more manageable topic. This works especially well with companions who can 'argue' with you over the new topic and polarize the discussion arena in order to avoid discussing more key issues.

18. Emotionalize, Antagonize, and Goad Opponents. If you can't do anything else, chide and taunt your opponents and draw them into emotional responses which will tend to make them look foolish and overly motivated, and generally render their material somewhat less coherent. Not only will you avoid discussing the issues in the first instance, but even if their emotional response addresses the issue, you can further avoid the issues by then focusing on how 'sensitive they are to criticism.'

19. Ignore proof presented, demand impossible proofs. This is perhaps a variant of the 'play dumb' rule. Regardless of what material may be presented by an opponent in public forums, claim the material irrelevant and demand proof that is impossible for the opponent to come by (it may exist, but not be at his disposal, or it may be something which is known to be safely destroyed or withheld, such as a murder weapon.) In order to completely avoid discussing issues, it may be required that you to categorically deny and be critical of media or books as valid sources, deny that witnesses are acceptable, or even deny that statements made by government or other authorities have any meaning or relevance.

20. False evidence. Whenever possible, introduce new facts or clues designed and manufactured to conflict with opponent presentations -- as useful tools to neutralize sensitive issues or impede resolution. This works best when the crime was designed
with contingencies for the purpose, and the facts cannot be easily separated from the fabrications.

21. Call a Grand Jury, Special Prosecutor, or other empowered investigative body. Subvert the (process) to your benefit and effectively neutralize all sensitive issues without open discussion. Once convened, the evidence and testimony are required to be secret when properly handled. For instance, if you own the prosecuting attorney, it can insure a Grand Jury hears no useful evidence and that the evidence is sealed and unavailable to subsequent investigators. Once a favorable verdict is achieved, the matter can be considered officially closed. Usually, this technique is applied to find the guilty innocent, but it can also be used to obtain charges when seeking to frame a victim.

22. Manufacture a new truth. Create your own expert(s), group(s), author(s), leader(s) or influence existing ones willing to forge new ground via scientific, investigative, or social research or testimony which concludes favorably. In this way, if you must actually address issues, you can do so authoritatively.

23. Create bigger distractions. If the above does not seem to be working to distract from sensitive issues, or to prevent unwanted media coverage of unstoppable events such as trials, create bigger news stories (or treat them as such) to distract the multitudes.

24. Silence critics. If the above methods do not prevail, consider removing opponents from circulation by some definitive solution so that the need to address issues is removed entirely. This can be by their death, arrest and detention, blackmail or destruction of theircharacter by release of blackmail information, or merely by destroying them financially, emotionally, or severely damaging their health.

25. Vanish. If you are a key holder of secrets or otherwise overly illuminated and you think the heat is getting too hot, to avoid the issues, vacate the kitchen.

Eight Traits of the Disinformationalist

1) Avoidance. They never actually discuss issues head-on or provide constructive input, generally avoiding citation of references or credentials. Rather, they merely imply this, that, and the other. Virtually everything about their presentation implies their authority and expert knowledge in the matter without any further justification for credibility.

2) Selectivity. They tend to pick and choose opponents carefully, either applying the hit-and-run approach against mere commentators supportive of opponents, or focusing heavier attacks on key opponents who are known to directly address issues. Should a commentatorbecome argumentative with any success, the focus will shift to include the commentator as well.

3) Coincidental. They tend to surface suddenly and somewhat coincidentally with a new controversial topic with no clear prior record of participation in general discussions in the particular public arena involved. They likewise tend to vanish once the topic is no longer of general concern. They were likely directed or elected to be there for a reason, and vanish with the reason.

4) Teamwork. They tend to operate in self-congratulatory and complementary packs or teams. Of course, this can happen naturally in any public forum, but there will likely be an ongoing pattern of frequent exchanges of this sort where professionals are involved. Sometimes one of the players will infiltrate the opponent camp to become a source for straw man or other tactics designed to dilute opponent presentation strength.

5) Anti-conspiratorial. They almost always have disdain for 'conspiracy theorists' and, usually, for those who in any way believe JFK was not killed by LHO. Ask yourself why, if they hold such disdain for conspiracy theorists, do they focus on defending a single topic discussed in a NG focusing on conspiracies? One might think they would either be trying to make fools of everyone on every topic, or simply ignore the group they hold in such disdain.Or, one might more rightly conclude they have an ulterior motive for their actions in going out of their way to focus as they do.

6) Artificial Emotions. An odd kind of 'artificial' emotionalism and an unusually thick skin -- an ability to persevere and persist even in the face of overwhelming criticism and unacceptance. This likely stems from intelligence community training that, no matter how condemning the evidence, deny everything, and never become emotionally involved or reactive. The net result for a disinfo artist is that emotions can seem artificial. Most people, if responding in anger, for instance, will express their animosity throughout their rebuttal. But disinfo types usually have trouble maintaining the 'image' and are hot and cold with respect to pretended emotions and their usually more calm or unemotional communications style. It's just a job, and they often seem unable to 'act their role in character' as well in a communications medium as they might be able in a real face-to-face conversation/confrontation. You might have outright rage and indignation one moment, ho-hum the next, and more anger later -- an emotional yo-yo. With respect to being thick-skinned, no amount of criticism will deter them from doing their job, and they will generally continue their old disinfo patterns without any adjustments to criticisms of how obvious it is that they play that game -- where a more rational individual who truly cares what others think might seek to improve their communications style, substance, and so forth, or simply give up.

7) Inconsistent. There is also a tendency to make mistakes which betray their true self/motives. This may stem from not really knowing their topic, or it may be somewhat 'freudian', so to speak, in that perhaps they really root for the side of truth deep within.

I have noted that often, they will simply cite contradictory information which neutralizes itself and the author. For instance, one such player claimed to be a Navy pilot, but blamed his poor communicating skills (spelling, grammar, incoherent style) on having only a grade-school education. I'm not aware of too many Navy pilots who don't have a college degree. Another claimed no knowledge of a particular topic/situation but later claimed first-hand knowledge of it.

8) BONUS TRAIT: Time Constant. Recently discovered, with respect to News Groups, is the response time factor. There are three ways this can be seen to work, especially when the government or other empowered player is involved in a cover up operation:
1) ANY NG posting by a targeted proponent for truth can result in an IMMEDIATE response. The government and other empowered players can afford to pay people to sit there and watch for an opportunity to do some damage. SINCE DISINFO IN A NG ONLY WORKS IF THE READER SEES IT - FAST RESPONSE IS CALLED FOR, or the visitor may be swayed towards truth.

2) When dealing in more direct ways with a disinformationalist, such as email, DELAY IS CALLED FOR - there will usually be a minimum of a 48-72 hour delay. This allows a sit-down team discussion on response strategy for best effect, and even enough time to 'get permission' or instruction from a formal chain of command.

3) In the NG example 1) above, it will often ALSO be seen that bigger guns are drawn and fired after the same 48-72 hours delay - the team approach in play. This is especially true when the targeted truth seeker or their comments are considered more important with respect to potential to reveal truth. Thus, a serious truth sayer will be attacked twice for the same sin.

posted on Dec, 24 2010 @ 08:23 AM

Originally posted by HappilyEverAfter
(and no, I do not work for the national softball association)

That sounds a little cumbersome. Far be it from me to criticize your style but wouldn't it be a lot simpler to just use the initials? NSA.

You know what they say in softball circles, "NSA, home of the double play".

Nice post.

posted on Dec, 24 2010 @ 08:47 AM
I was offered a job as one but I didn't like the health care plan.

posted on Dec, 24 2010 @ 08:51 AM
The direction of this thread seems very reminiscent of JohnnyCanucks post that what these certain posters tend to do is reduce the thread to troll vs troll.

The last 3-4 pages all had Phatpackage and the other guys arguing back and forth. Ive noticed in all of phatpackages posts, the direction seems to get aggressive resulting in name calling and a lot of 'Epic Fails' lol

I implore ATS guys to not get caught up in this trolling. There will no doubt be shills on such an important site like this, remember when it comes to sensitive issues and conspiracies you will hardly have any proof, this isnt about arguing about whose right or wrong. Its about showing your evidence and let common sense of the reader figure it out for himself. That is how people have been waking up from their 'sheep' state.

Make your own minds up. Truth Stand out Clear from Error.

posted on Dec, 24 2010 @ 09:07 AM
I work strictly on a volunteer basis. I hesitate to say on a pro-bono basis since the end result can hardly be construed as "for the public good".

posted on Dec, 24 2010 @ 09:29 AM
reply to post by nastyj

Hey nastyj!

I just joined ATS and of the few replies I have made, I have found myself doing exactly that. I am replying to the tail end of the thread. In most cases, the part of the thread that has gotten so far away from the original subject that I'm replying to the trolls and not the people who have something constructive to say. May I leave something to you and the thinkers, especially you Johnnycanuck, These are from one of your great thinkers..Marshall McKluen. "The more the data banks record about each one of us,the less we exist". "Today the tyrant rules not by the club or fist,but disguised as a market reseacher, he shepards his flocks in the ways of utility and comfort". Peace to all

posted on Dec, 24 2010 @ 09:38 AM
I've come across my fair share of disinfo agents on youtube. They're so obvious. They should be fired immediately or be made to go on a subtlety course.

posted on Dec, 24 2010 @ 09:40 AM
reply to post by Hefficide

There are 200 000 "secret agent" own by usa and england.

posted on Dec, 24 2010 @ 09:42 AM

Originally posted by psychederic
reply to post by Hefficide

There are 200 000 "secret agent" own by usa and england.

If you know how many there are, they aren't "secret" are they? Do you have a source for this claim?


posted on Dec, 24 2010 @ 09:45 AM
reply to post by pinchanze
Welcome home. Pin! Your intro missive speaks volumes. My team needs players, and if you haven't signed a contract yet we'd sure like to have you on our side. The names dillweed, but you can call me 'dee dubya'. Seems there's a group of people on this site that are hindering the movement for justice. Care to join us, the winning team?

edit on 24-12-2010 by dillweed because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 24 2010 @ 10:02 AM
ATS has grown to the point that almost everyone will see posts that they consider unnecessary clutter.
There could be better tools implemented that would create a custom view of the database but that takes machine time resources. Apparently even returning search results in posting date order requires a sort? Of course if ATS ever does implement more discriminating kill files and search engines it would reveal information about those currently anonymous lurkers that are mining ATS for information.

posted on Dec, 24 2010 @ 10:20 AM
When I first came here and heard people talk about "Disinfo Agents" and "Debunkers" I laughed it off as paranoid. Now I actually see that these claims carry some level of truth. Without a shred of doubt, there are people who come on here to disrupt the flow of threads and create confusion and disinformation in regard to certain issues. Whether these are individuals who are scared to death of confronting the truth and do these things to place the scary thought of the implications at the back of their mind, or actual "shills" that are indifferent about these issues but are on an actual payroll to spread disinformation is probably what is harder to determine.

People ask "but why would those in power waste money on these kinds of people?" The answer is simple: the more people hear the "official story" about major events repeated over and over, the less they are to question it. It also serves a psychological purpose for those divided on certain issues because it reassures them that this is all "conspiracy nonsense" and their conscience feels eased because they don't have to worry about the implications if the claims are true. Think of them as "pushing the MSM version" of events in a forum that is mostly comprised of members that are open-minded, can think critically and who are in search of the truth.
edit on 24/12/2010 by Dark Ghost because: clarity

posted on Dec, 24 2010 @ 10:24 AM
I think what we have here are hoards of people suffering delusions of grandeur; believing that what they say makes the higher powers nervous. These people like to pretend that they are playing a leading role in some high end cloak and dagger game, and that the government pays individuals at this website (and others) a lot of money to hush them up. Talk about ego! Get grip on yourselves. NEWS FLASH! The government isn't interested in you because the truth is that you know nothing and you disclose nothing other than your high susceptibility to fits of paranoia.

I'm yet to see a television news break on how something incredible has been uncovered by an ATS member. I'm sorry keyboard warriors, you ain't no Julian Assange. You're just normal people in normal lives pretending to be something other than what you are.


posted on Dec, 24 2010 @ 10:40 AM

Originally posted by InfaRedMan
Get grip on yourselves. NEWS FLASH! The government isn't interested in you because the truth is that you know nothing and you disclose nothing other than your high susceptibility to fits of paranoia.
You're just normal people in normal lives pretending to be something other than what you are.

Generally? Yes.
But there have been some pretty serious issues emerge and some serious players come forward. It's all very subtle, but the monitoring and the manipulation is there. Sometimes it's hidden in hyperbole, but the nugget is there and the job gets done.

I can think of two issues that went weird and I backed off of. And that's just me.

posted on Dec, 24 2010 @ 10:47 AM
reply to post by InfaRedMan

You seriously don't think the federal government is interested in what goes on here? Sure, there are some here that are all wrapped up in their own egos, but that doesn't change the reality that your posts and mine are being monitored if not saved and filed.
Look at the pilot that posted the youtube video on TSA security absurdities, and subsequently had his house searched, his firearm confiscated, and who knows what other punishments. That is why we are "anonymous" here, there is always that threat.
There have been some very interesting findings and research posted here that the mainstream media ignores, so it is not a measure of our importance whether the media gives ATS members any air time. The media tends to ignore anything and everything of real value.
Don't pretend you know why people come here and post.

posted on Dec, 24 2010 @ 10:51 AM

Originally posted by JohnnyCanuck
I can think of two issues that went weird and I backed off of. And that's just me.

That can simply be your perception of events...


Speaking for myself; If I truly believed in something, no one could make me back off. Especially on an internet forum, and if I had decent proof, (something more than a gut feeling), I'd let that irrefutable evidence do the talking.

Without said evidence, it's simply a battle of opinions and everyone is going to encounter someone that feels just as passionate for a theory that opposes their own.


posted on Dec, 24 2010 @ 10:57 AM
reply to post by InfaRedMan
The only innocent one I hear is you. If you believe the govt' doesn't care what's said here you are either a shill or an idiot. I'm not known for throwing that word around without justification, but it fits here.

posted on Dec, 24 2010 @ 11:06 AM
reply to post by Hefficide

You asked for proof your a disinfo agent!!!!

posted on Dec, 24 2010 @ 11:21 AM
I sure as heck don't make that much spreading disinfo.
I am paid to spread facts and common sense. Nothing to see here. Move along Sheeple...

posted on Dec, 24 2010 @ 11:52 AM

Originally posted by phatpackage
reply to post by wcitizen

My advice to you, Zamini - is do neither. Neither put up or shut up.

now he needs you to hold his hand! Provide the evidence to back your claims about "Payed goverment disinformation shills" as the OP puts it! Not too much to ask!


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