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Who said this is right?

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posted on Jul, 6 2004 @ 12:07 PM
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Did you ever wonder why children choose the toy to play with, such as a little girl plays with a doll and a little boy with a truck? Think about that, is it right or wrong that a boy plays with a doll and a little girl with a truck? Or why does a little girl get dressed in pink and a boy in blue? This is only the beginning of my question to “Who said this is right?”

Why does society structure how human beings should act? Who are they to tell me (I) what is right or wrong. If per say I was a women writing this book you would think, “OK here is the perspective of how society puts down the female gender. And per say if I was a male writing this book you would think, “OK here is the perspective of why men should be strong and masculine. Well you’re wrong, I am I and I am who I am.

Have you ever wondered what the world would be like if men where supposed to wear dresses and females where supposed to wear pants. Keep in mind there roles have not been changed so In sense it would be natural that guys would be Landscaping in mini skirts and halter tops and women would be in suits and jeans in beauty salons. I know you are thinking “WOW” like that would never happen, but the question is why? Who said this is right, Men with pants? Women in skirts?

I am about to challenge your way of thought in Sex, Religion, Humanity, and Life and ask you to personally think about:

Why you are the way you are?
How did you become who you are?
Why we are all the way we are?
How did we become the way we all are?
Why did society dictate how we are?
How did society dictate all beings?

This is going to take you deep into your Psyche if you do not feel comfortable with challenging what you know or think you know or even how you know, what you know, I advise you not to read it. I am going to ask you to prove to yourself what’s real, why something should be one way or is it the other way or is that actually the correct way?
How open is your mind? Are you strong enough to except that something actually lead a chain reaction that makes human beings think, dress, act, believe and even live the way it wanted us too. Are you sure you want to find it?
My reasons for all these pre qualifying questions is my waiver to not be sued in instances that you have lost your mental abilities in knowing what is real anymore. I am I and I can lead you through a journey, which is fact, not fiction and is happening every day.
Have fun and remember” Who said this is right?”.

Lets talk about what is Space or what you percieve space is:

What is it? Where is it? Is it really above the Earth or is it the outer walls of an Atom. How small are we? Is it possible that what we think we see in the sky such as stars, planets, moons and the sun are just micro particles or even dead blood cells floating around in a human’s body? Or could it be possible that our Galaxy, Solar System is a made up theory to the point it was placed in a book and passed on from generation to generation so that we as human beings believe it must be true. Or did you forget he/she who wrote it in their book could have been someone like I, just trying to make you question what is real and what is not.

well now that your . is spinning I will let you, yourself, your own being choose, make a consious decision if I should write more on this subject, choose tell me. Thanks I




posted on Jul, 6 2004 @ 12:40 PM
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Originally posted by Justmytype

Did you ever wonder why children choose the toy to play with, such as a little girl plays with a doll and a little boy with a truck? Think about that, is it right or wrong that a boy plays with a doll and a little girl with a truck? Or why does a little girl get dressed in pink and a boy in blue? This is only the beginning of my question to “Who said this is right?”


Right or wrong has nothing to do with it. The parents or guardians dress these children in such a way and buy them such toys before the child even has a preference about blue/pink, toy truck/doll. Furthermore, we all tend to emulate the parent of the same gender as ourselves because they are our rolemodel for what it means to be male/female.

So who tells the parents what is the 'correct' way to raise a child? The influence of their parents before them, media, religion, education, social ranking, etc. You have been built to be how you are from a myriad of outside sources which we are often not even aware of.



Have you ever wondered what the world would be like if men where supposed to wear dresses and females where supposed to wear pants. Keep in mind there roles have not been changed so In sense it would be natural that guys would be Landscaping in mini skirts and halter tops and women would be in suits and jeans in beauty salons.


If you are speaking of role reversals then you also need to realize that it would not only be clothing, but all characteristics of what we consider to be proper male/female behavior. I seriously doubt that a man would be doing construction work in a miniskirt for the same reasons that you would not wear ear muffs if you are a racecar driver, it is impractible. A better question would be if it was considered a women's job to do heavy manual labor. I would imagine probably not thou as a man's body is generally more fit for it.



Lets talk about what is Space or what you percieve space is:

What is it? Where is it? Is it really above the Earth or is it the outer walls of an Atom. How small are we? Is it possible that what we think we see in the sky such as stars, planets, moons and the sun are just micro particles or even dead blood cells floating around in a human’s body? Or could it be possible that our Galaxy, Solar System is a made up theory to the point it was placed in a book and passed on from generation to generation so that we as human beings believe it must be true. Or did you forget he/she who wrote it in their book could have been someone like I, just trying to make you question what is real and what is not.


Space, in relievence to our perceivable interaction with it, is defined by our senses, by the way in which we 'test' its validity. The Existence of any Thing only becomes a reality through its interactions with that which it is being considered in relationship to. Read Ravings in my sig if you want to get into it.



posted on Jul, 6 2004 @ 01:34 PM
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For instance, if someone were to hand you a photograph of a tree you would be able to identify the object as a tree, but this representation of a tree is not the tree. Now if you were standing in front of the same tree that was represented in the photo, you would be able to identify what stood before you as a tree, but it is still a symbolic representation of what you believe a tree is suppose to look like. You see this misinformation is not obtained through your actual senses, but through the conditioning of your mind in the way that it translates sensory data.


Now, I like your thinking and how you percieve such entities but i am confused with one thing "sensory data"? Why is a tree a tree. yes we are conditioned to know that this symbol is a tree, but what is its true purpose? It's a living creature or so we are taught, its limbs grow with water and sunlight to survive so its form as we see it is a tree. But is its being any diffrent then ours, does it hear? Feel and have free will? I would love to pick your brain, you are a very inceptive person which I much appreciate in this place we percieve to be life but than again I not a self ego but a being asks you, if you are taught by parents, books, philosophies etc. arent you just a mimic of another being since you have not allowed yourself to choose for yourself what may or may not be real or should I say thruth??



posted on Jul, 6 2004 @ 01:43 PM
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Originally posted by Justmytype
For instance, if someone were to hand you a photograph of a tree you would be able to identify the object as a tree, but this representation of a tree is not the tree.


Justmytype, the first question I would ask is, ok i've got the photo now take me to
see the tree.

Sanc'.



posted on Jul, 6 2004 @ 02:22 PM
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Originally posted by Justmytype
For instance, if someone were to hand you a photograph of a tree you would be able to identify the object as a tree, but this representation of a tree is not the tree. Now if you were standing in front of the same tree that was represented in the photo, you would be able to identify what stood before you as a tree, but it is still a symbolic representation of what you believe a tree is suppose to look like. You see this misinformation is not obtained through your actual senses, but through the conditioning of your mind in the way that it translates sensory data.


Now this is just eerie! I once had a psychology prof that said the same thing almost verbatim. I see that you are from NJ. You didn't have a teacher by the last name of Wynn per chance did you?




i am confused with one thing "sensory data"? Why is a tree a tree. yes we are conditioned to know that this symbol is a tree, but what is its true purpose? It's a living creature or so we are taught, its limbs grow with water and sunlight to survive so its form as we see it is a tree. But is its being any diffrent then ours, does it hear? Feel and have free will?


It is as such because of how we define its existence in its relationship to ourselves. We give any said thing a Name and recognizable characteristics (gained through our sensory information) by the way that we perceive it and thus define the thing in question. This is the birth of understanding and also the reason for language. It is how we communicate and express our sensory information to others. That is not to say that the tree does not exist if it is not seen (as in relationship to us), but rather that it does not exist in OUR reality. Aliens could exist on some unknown distant planet, but they do not exist in our reality in any perceivable way. It is a bit of a twist of Nihilism and the Copenhagen Institute’s concept of reality.

Now as for the picture of a tree concept, it is of course not a true tree, but instead millions of colored dots produced by the camera that our minds find relevance to in relationship to the image of a true tree as we define its appearance. This is one of the reasons why I find post impressionist paintings (specifically Pointillism) so interesting. If you put the painting right up to your nose, you can only see millions of colored paint strokes, but if you pull away from it your mind assimilates the work into shapes and concepts that we are familiar with because of their relationship to our reality. This is why our sensory data is so important to creating what we believe is Reality although our reality is not Absolute Reality…but I am getting a. of myself again as I so often do.



if you are taught by parents, books, philosophies etc. arent you just a mimic of another being since you have not allowed yourself to choose for yourself what may or may not be real or should I say thruth??


Yes, to a certain extent. This actually gets into freewill. A good example of this is the imprinting of abusive tendencies pasted from parent to child. As the child grows to adulthood, he/she often displays the same negative traits because that has become the reality of how he/she is suppose to behave as far as they perceive it. It is actually seen as appropriate behavior to an extent even when one may realize (after the unconscious reactionatory response: reflexive behavior) that they have done something that they regretted.

So how does one escape this vicious cycle? The only way is to discover the reasoning for their reflexive behavior and change it much like finding the minuet mechanical problem why a car will not start in order to fix the automobile. This is why I believe in a limited sort of freewill. We can control our futures to some extent, but first we must learn to be mechanics and discover the reason of the things that we wish to change within ourselves.

We have all been built to be who we are, but, with the discovery of why we are who we are, we can rebuild ourselves as we wish to be.



posted on Jul, 6 2004 @ 02:43 PM
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Justmytype
I'm wondering if you speak any other languages, or are familiar with some of the elements of many foreign language's grammar...I'm familiar with German, so I'll use that as my example...each item in these languages is assigned a gender role which codes for different endings and usages...in German it's der(Masc.) die(Fem.) das(Neut.) die(Plurl.)

Since our languages stem from many thousands of years of cultural development, we inherintly associate words with pictures, just like your example with the tree...but in honesty, the true issue at hand is translation

How do we translate things we see, say, do, hear, etc...? Every culture has it's own translation of the color pink...the color blue...and that's not a negative thing - just because you are raised to associate these words with these images does not mean that you cannot transcend these cultural customs as you gain more and more knowledge, which I believe you are suggesting people should try...

The fields of linguistics, translation and cultural anthropology and have many ties into what you are probing into - try googling your ideas and see what sites you can find that relate to these fields and I bet you will find alot of answers and/or theories that appeal to you...



posted on Jul, 6 2004 @ 02:51 PM
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Originally posted by Justmytype

Why you are the way you are?
How did you become who you are?
Why we are all the way we are?
How did we become the way we all are?
Why did society dictate how we are?
How did society dictate all beings?



These are the questions that put one on the path of Philosophy. In all ages have men and women of depth contemplated them, while the shallow have ignored them.

Fiat Lvx.



posted on Jul, 6 2004 @ 03:06 PM
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Well this is an issue I often dwell on privately. How do we know that what we see really exists?


Is it really above the Earth or is it the outer walls of an Atom. How small are we? Is it possible that what we think we see in the sky such as stars, planets, moons and the sun are just micro particles or even dead blood cells floating around in a human’s body? Or could it be possible that our Galaxy, Solar System is a made up theory to the point it was placed in a book and passed on from generation to generation so that we as human beings believe it must be true.

One of my personal theories of space is that the earth and the solar system might very well be part of an atom thta makes up something bigger, and the atoms that make up us might be smaller solar systems.

Here's another theroy for you: what if we don't exist at all but are simply manifestations in some larger creature's conscince (sp?) ?. All that we are are thoughts, emotions, etc.

The problem with all of these thoeries is that there is no supporting evidence; they are simply hot air. So I have come to the conclusion that arguing what the world is is pointless; it is what we see it as being and it might very well be something totally different but the problem is that there is no objective viewpoint. The same thing (a tree for example) might, and does look totally different to, say, an ant. But the ant's perspective is just as valid as ours, and if the ant tried to do ant things with our perspective on a tree life would be very hard indeed, and the same goes for if we used the ant perspective. Each to his own, not his neighbors.

Now about cultural condition like blue and pink clothes for a newborn.... That is what culture is, an assimilation of hundreds of years of collective experience that mostly makes sense to most of the populace. Nothing more. I don't agree with most of it either but what can you do? Not much is the answer. The most obvious thing is to go live somewhere else but if you are young as I would guess you are by your tone (this is to Justmytype) emmigrating to another country is kind of out of the question. I try to just ignore what seems stupid and find people who are like minded to be around. So far it seems to work.

Why you are the way you are?
I am the way I am because of where I grew up, who raised me, the belief system(s) of those who raised me, the country I grewup in, the time period I grew up in, and because of all those who have lived and died before me who have made their either large or small contributions to society.

I will answer the rest of you questions later because I am moving on to another thread. But so far, I must say that nothing in my life has been shaken by this thread, although I appriciate your willingness to share your own self-discovery with the rest of us.



posted on Jul, 6 2004 @ 04:25 PM
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Re:Enronoutrunhomerun: No actually I only speak English sorry I was a High School Drop out had no intrest in what was being taught back then.

Re: Jonna: LOL Yes I am from the wonderful state of New Jersey but unfortunately never have had a teacher with that name. I really appreciate your insight. I finally feel as there are others out there that hear, feel and know what essence is. Thank You.

Now as stated in a previous comment that I am young. what is that? 18, 35, 50 as stated I am I, I am what I believe to be of freewill, I do not believe in a God, I am sorry if that offends anyone but to me it's just a book that someone has written and people believed in. sorta like a tree. I am and always will have control over my life, I challenge everything and always will. I do not believe in Society for the simple reason it portraits itself as like Russia in the communist days. What I have been tgaught has been aquired by self, grant the basics of making it through as a child but that was taught by my parents which was taught by society. I do not judge anyone because of what they may do or say because that shows individuality if it comes from there true self and not a mimic of anothers comment. I believe you are what you see and I am not talking about your reflection. Look at yourself then look at society, are you as they say "One of the Jones's" or are you diffrent in the way you act, raise your children, your beliefs politically or religiously? Now if you can answer these questions you do not conform to I, I has no influence from others but true reaction from what I see's within myself, I have no hatred nor love, no jealousy or spite, I am I, I believe all I physically see is a portrfait of what you want me to see. But what do I see when I look past that of which you expect me to see is an abundance of quietness, no words, no sounds, but just a peaceful array of energy spout above the ground in each and everyone. Can you see with no eyes?? of course but what do you really see, do you trust it, can you comprehend it? Try and I am sure you will find it as well.



posted on Jul, 6 2004 @ 04:49 PM
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You know - if you like movies justmytype...I've got two for you that are right up your alley - movies that question socitey and our inner most thoughts and desires which become acted out on the screen as opposed to represed in our minds...

The first one is one of my all time favs, as indicated in my sig, which is Annie Hall by Woody Allen. It's one of those movies that disregards the rules of every day life and pulls in really great examples of some hilarious scenarios like "don't you wish" and "I'd really like to" and "what if."

The other movie may be harder to find, but it also ties in well...it's called 8 1/2 by Fedirico Felini. It's a foreign film about a director who has his ensamble cast and crew all ready to produce his next movie, but the probem is he doesn't know what the movie is going to be about and he builds and builds but he goes nowhere until the day comes when he has to shoot and then everything spirals out of control and he becomes dipicted as a little caped boy leading around his band of loyals...the movie is questioning our reasoning for blindly following those who stand before us and the trickery of the mind that takes place while doing such - most film critics believe this is one of the most incredible movies ever made because it goes places few other films go....and not to mention the beautiful imagery...

I only mention these two films b/c I think they would make a great impression on you and would only amplify your beliefs further - there are a few others that come to mind as well if you're interested... If you've already seen those movies above, then maybe you know what I'm saying



posted on Jul, 6 2004 @ 04:52 PM
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Originally posted by Justmytype
Can you see with no eyes?? of course but what do you really see, do you trust it, can you comprehend it?


That is just the thing, would we understand something that goes completely against our concept of reality? You ask if one can see without eyes. As with most things it all depends on your definition of the words and ideas involved. Does a blind man see with his hands? I suppose that it could be considered as such from a certain point of view.

However what I believe it is you are really asking is can a subject or phenomenon be experienced without the assistence of our normal five senses. I believe so, but strangely enough it is not really our senses that are to blame as much as it is our predefined concepts. It is the familar reality that we cling to like a dictionary for it is not our senses that are conditioned, but rather the mental translator for what the senses bear witness to.

What if you could see without dividing one form from another, without succoming to the illusion of duality, without stapling a comfortable definition on everything? It would be like seeing with a brand new pair of eyes.



posted on Jul, 6 2004 @ 05:08 PM
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Re Enron: thanks, I'll check out the second film.

Re: Jonna

Life is a feeling, feelings are imposed by our self, our self is something which no one can dictate unless our self allows it. Thus meaning a freespirit in a sense is Life because life is a feeling etc...

what do you think?



posted on Jul, 7 2004 @ 09:41 AM
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Originally posted by Justmytype
Life is a feeling, feelings are imposed by our self, our self is something which no one can dictate unless our self allows it. Thus meaning a freespirit in a sense is Life because life is a feeling etc...what do you think?


Perhaps it is because I have not had my coffee yet, but I do not quite follow what it is that your are trying to convey. The problem, as usual, is probably that of definitions. Feelings? Do you mean sensory information? If so then yes as we interact with everything through our senses and that is the birth of how we create our reality (how we perceive existence, life). However this raw data is only the first step. Next our brains (because of our specific conditioning) translate that raw data in a way that we can understand ie in relationship to ourselves. Thus duality is created. The I and not I; the me and other.

Freespirit? As a object or action? Please elaborate.



posted on Jul, 7 2004 @ 01:46 PM
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These questions have been debated by philosophers for centuries. The Pythagoreans, and later Plato, took an abstract view of “real” reality, which transcends the reality conveyed by our senses.
This led to the rise of the philosophical school called the Sceptics, who questioned the reality of anything perceived by the senses, focusing on the underlying reality of the abstract.

The Stoics disagreed. They said there was no where “else”; and that our world (as we perceive it) is the only world there is.

Philosophers argued back and forth over what was real for thousands of years until the so-called “Golden Age of German Philosophy” was born following the Renaissance.
Immanuel Kant, perhaps the greatest of the German era thinkers, separated reality into 2 classes: the phenomenal and noumenal. The phenomenal world is that which we perceive with our senses, while the noumenal world corresponds to Plato’s world of Form, and is abstract. Thus, Kant acknowledges the existence of a transcendental reality, but then says it is useless to speculate on it because it is beyond human knowledge.

Arthur Schopenhauer agrees to a point, but says that the noumenal consists of the primal Will; according to him, Will is a duality, consisting of the Will To Live and Will To Die. Schopenhauer’s philosophy is atheistic, and is strongly similar to Buddhism.

Friedrich Nietzsche agreed with Schopenhauer’s basic premises, but did not care for its pessimism. According to Nietzsche, something transcends the Will To Live and Will To Die; for example, there are things and principles that a man would lay down his life for, even though he doesn’t will to die. Nietzsche called this the Will To Power, and believed it o be the basic motivation in humanity.

Georg W. F. Hegel takes us back into abstraction. The individual is part of a greater whole, a “World Spirit”, which operates through the process of history, and manifests itself in the State. Hegel’s philosophy is very intricate and complicated, and must be studied in depth to truly understand.

The Spanish philosopher Baruch Spinoza postulated a mystical union of the Universe; that individuality is a temporary combination of elements from Nature, that are re-absorbed into Nature at death, to make new combinations, which nevertheless remain in union with the Absolute. In a sense, Spinoza’s philosophy is similar to Stoicism.

The existentialists, which include Kierkegaard, Sartre, Camus, and possibly Heidegger and Nietzsche, say that, in the big picture, life is meaningless. It therefore becomes the duty of each individual to transform the “absurdity of life” into something productive. This suits well with Nietzsche’s idea of Will To Power.

IMO, all of these philosophers had something worth while to say, even when contradicting each other (or lampooning the others, as Nietzsche often did).

Fiat Lvx.


[edit on 7-7-2004 by Masonic Light]



posted on Jul, 7 2004 @ 05:19 PM
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Re:Jonna
Forgive me for not getting back to the board sooner but my . feels as it is going to burst and I cannot convey a clear thought if I tried. I think what I was trying to say in a nutshell is, What happens to us all in life is our own doing, we all have choices, oppertunities, feelings, thoughts etc. Its our own as "I" to live how we want to, to believe what we want to, to choose what we want to, to act the way we want to and thus makes us all a free spirit unless we "that is the human race" choose to believe everything that has been told to us through, education, books, media, parents etc.. I feel I am I because I choose to question, I choose to see the tree diffrent then most if this makes sense or not, life is a revolving living entity its just how you choose to expand or allow yourself to define it.



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