Slavery Isn't Possible Without Government

reply to post by mnemeth1


Calling it a "Civil War" is a misperception. A civil war involves two or more parties fighting for control of the government. There was no fight for control of the government in the American Civil War. Several states expressed the desire to seceed. It was a Revolution. And, it was violently crushed by the Federal government. War of Northern aggression? Perhaps the latter is a more acurate desciption.

reply to post by gunshooter

Even in a barbaric civilization slavery could exist without a so called government. The strong, would dominate the weak, take on a couple slave. They do what master says or die, simple....

Heck you even see it in kindergarten. the strong bullies will attack the weak and steal their snacks. You see a more organized version in street gangs. Inner city kids will tell you point blank you belong to a gang or you are dead meat. Many of the kids do not really WANT to belong to the gang but join for self protection.

Humans are a herd animal and the Alpha Male (or Alpha Female) rules. Democracy and freedom were a more recent invention.

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

Originally posted by mnemeth1

Originally posted by captaintyinknots

Originally posted by mnemeth1

Originally posted by captaintyinknots
YOu are right on some level, but then it breaks down into semantics. Slavery can happen through force.

I would contend that it has nothing to do with governments, but everything to do with economics.

Those who have, have the ability to control those who dont. Its happened in every corner of history.

If I go to work voluntarily for someone and they pay me a wage I voluntarily agree to work for, is that slavery?

If someone comes along and holds a gun to my head every month and then takes the product of my labor a gun point, is that slavery?

The first answer is no - the second answer is yes.

Guess which one fits the definition of the IRS?

I get your point, but you are missing mine.

When one tribe overtook another, and forced the women and men into work, was that not slavery, without a government?

You are marginalizing the word to fit your definition, and that doesnt work.

I don't think so.

I think most of the world is enslaved today.

Tribes ARE governments, and if a region of tribes enforces slavery, then that is essentially the same service as a government imposing it.

edit on 22-12-2010 by mnemeth1 because: (no reason given)

Tribes are not, and have never been, governments. In fact, they are close to the opposite.

You are still marginalizing the word.

Again, you are marginalizing the word.

If we are going to get into semantics, tribes are considered a form of government.

Definition

*bold and caps mine.

World English Dictionary
government (ˈɡʌvənmənt, ˈɡʌvəmənt)

— n
1. the exercise of political authority over the actions, affairs, etc, of a political unit, people, etc, as well as the performance of certain functions for this unit or body; the action of governing; political rule and administration
2. the system or form by which a COMMUNITY, etc, is ruled: tyrannical government

A government does not have to be elected either, it can be authoritarian, a monarchy, a dictatorship, a theocracy or even a "council of elders in a forest" (this last one according to Wikipedia, but sources are cited in the footnotes.)
So the examples of kindergarten bullies and gang hierarchy ARE forms of government, though not democratic in the least.

As for the example of taking someone by force, nothing is to stop you from doing it, only it is not accepted by todays government, and if caught, would be punishable by law.
If done in the absence of any prior form of community or government (i.e. a lone hunter/gatherer) it would be akin to forming a one person dictatorship where kidnapping and slavery is accepted.

Just saying,

the Billmeister

Originally posted by thisguyrighthere
Reply to post by captaintyinknots

 

Ive never had the IRS point a gun at me.....

It has one pointed at you right now. Try refusing to pay up and see what happens.

We're all just share cropping shot here in America and every other mafia run country.

 

Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

 

Me? No one would blink an eye f I didnt pay my taxs.

Now, those that do get in trouble, still do not have a gun to their head to do it.

the penalty for not paying taxes is not death.