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The Unions are out of control

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posted on Dec, 22 2010 @ 04:12 PM
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This picture is a satire of the disdain the Conservatives hold the Unions in the UK, the Bullingdon boys from Oxford University are our leaders now and they want the natural order of the rich to rule over the poor.
edit on 22-12-2010 by woodwardjnr because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 22 2010 @ 04:14 PM
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reply to post by captaintyinknots
 



So, you have met with insurance agents, and that is your proof?


Yes, as well meeting with Union reps, negotiators, and employees who reveal how other employees are abusing the system. Fired some employees from credible evidence, too.


And yes they should have a union rep on their side. Do you realize that there are people out there employed to do nothing other than prove a workers comp claim false, even if it is not? So why should they not have representation on their side, as well as against them?


Of course I realize that the insurance companies have to keep their costs down low (thus employing FT investigators), This helps keep the business' costs down too -- thus helping ensure better salaries, benefits, etc. for the satisfactory employees.

In Cali, you can go hire a lawyer without little or no cost to you to "prove" your cause if you are not making a fradulent claim, and vice-versa applies as well....


The bilingual thing? Thats racism in disguise. Nearly every state provides bilingual material. Nice try though.


Just facts. Compare the minority population, and the sheer number of alternate languages of Cali versus other states. Don't call me a racist, that's what you are essentially doing. Ad Hominem.


And being from California does not make one an expert on the state. Are you in state government? State finance? If not, your claims are as much speculation as mine are.


Read my initial post above, please.

I don't know where you are from, but you definitely do not know why Cali is referred to as "The Republic"---



posted on Dec, 22 2010 @ 04:22 PM
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Originally posted by sonjah1
reply to post by captaintyinknots
 



So, you have met with insurance agents, and that is your proof?


Yes, as well meeting with Union reps, negotiators, and employees who reveal how other employees are abusing the system. Fired some employees from credible evidence, too.


And yes they should have a union rep on their side. Do you realize that there are people out there employed to do nothing other than prove a workers comp claim false, even if it is not? So why should they not have representation on their side, as well as against them?


Of course I realize that the insurance companies have to keep their costs down low (thus employing FT investigators), This helps keep the business' costs down too -- thus helping ensure better salaries, benefits, etc. for the satisfactory employees.

In Cali, you can go hire a lawyer without little or no cost to you to "prove" your cause if you are not making a fradulent claim, and vice-versa applies as well....


The bilingual thing? Thats racism in disguise. Nearly every state provides bilingual material. Nice try though.


Just facts. Compare the minority population, and the sheer number of alternate languages of Cali versus other states. Don't call me a racist, that's what you are essentially doing. Ad Hominem.


And being from California does not make one an expert on the state. Are you in state government? State finance? If not, your claims are as much speculation as mine are.


Read my initial post above, please.

I don't know where you are from, but you definitely do not know why Cali is referred to as "The Republic"---



1)So your proof is your experience, and nothing more. That is essentially what you are saying.
2)Keeping businesses costs down does not ensure better wages, benefits, etc. History has proven that 'trickle down' is B.S., and that when the fat cats have more in their pockets, thats where they keep it.
3)Why should someone have to hire a lawyer to defend themself in a comp case? If a worker is hurt, he has a right to the benefit. The only reason they NEED representation is because if they did not have it, there would be no such thing as workers comp, which is proven by the fact that companies employ those to deny benefits at any cost. If they didnt HAVE to pay, they wouldnt.
4)It's not ad hom, and yes I am calling you racist. Claiming that providing bilingual material is the reason that state is broke is laughable, xenophobic, and yes, racist.
5)Cali can be referred to as anything you like. Doesnt change the fact that it is a part of the union, and not a singular entity.
6)I did read you initial post, and it proved my point. You are no expert on the subject. Therefore, challenging the opinion of others based on merit alone is quite an empty argument. Great try though.

edit on 22-12-2010 by captaintyinknots because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 22 2010 @ 04:23 PM
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Post amended as per remarks provided below...glad I asked.
edit on 22-12-2010 by JohnnyCanuck because: I was mistaken.



posted on Dec, 22 2010 @ 04:33 PM
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reply to post by JohnnyCanuck
 


No, no, no!

You have that wrong...read posts above, please.

I am talking about those with faulty WC claims, not real injuries.

Plus, I've worked FT for state, and worked HR for my own small businesses.

I'm sorry you misinterpreted, or I miscommunicated what I am trying to convey.

edit on 22-12-2010 by sonjah1 because: freaky spelling




posted on Dec, 22 2010 @ 04:46 PM
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reply to post by JohnnyCanuck
 



Staff belong to a number of unions...faculty to an association. Some problems were endemic and system wide, others caused by bad managers and exacerbated by an institutional refusal to write anti-bullying language into the CA.
And some management behaviour...from the top on down...can only be described as rectally sourced.


Well, I admire you for that given that probably some of those managers were in their "Ivory Towers" or "High Horses" so to speak. It is difficult to be in the middle, indeed. However, most universities in the states function highly without unions, but with large HR departments....


Are there bad union bosses and practices? Certainly...but does it follow that all union members are goons and thugs? I donno...ask your neighbour or your dad. Chances are they are/were union rank and file.


I truly wish I could ask my dad about his thoughts on the UAW, but he has passed on. He owned GM dealerships at the time -- the stress is probably what put him under.
But I don't think he would pleased with the concept of Government Motors at this time.


Does it also follow that unions should be dissolved? Well...do you really trust corporate America to look out for your best interests? I mean, how are they doing so far?


Sorry, but based on my perception: UNIONS = CORPORATE AMERICA = MANY MEMBERS OF CONGRESS = POTUS....



posted on Dec, 22 2010 @ 05:09 PM
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This anti-union propaganda is what will aid in bringing America to serfdom along with the Republican conservative lies about budgets.

The fact that America is going backwards in middle class lifestyle in terms of salary, retirement, job security, the fact of outsourcing and Unionism is indicative that the average American is ignorant and so brainwashed by the Fox News era, that the future of America is bleak.

Indeed it boils down to Op’s like this that accept republican conservative corporate based chamber of commerce nonsense about unions as they peddle their Christ Christie nonsense about the need to cut budgets, that seem to always benefit the rich and further degrade the middle and lower middle class.



posted on Dec, 22 2010 @ 05:43 PM
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Originally posted by inforeal
Indeed it boils down to Op’s like this that accept republican conservative corporate based chamber of commerce nonsense about unions as they peddle their Christ Christie nonsense about the need to cut budgets, that seem to always benefit the rich and further degrade the middle and lower middle class.


How the middle class can vote for maintaining the Bush tax cuts for the rich while their jobs go to India and China...because Mexico is too expensive!!!...is totally beyond me.

And then you see the 9/11 first responders get screwed out of proper health care for lack of funds...and this compromise bill is total Bravo Sierra...
...but I digress.

10 years ago,,,when things were a lot better...you could land a pair of Nikes in Vancouver for $9 all in. And sell them for $110 retail. And that is why we're #ed...cuz that wasn't enough.

It's not the unions...it's Wall Street (and in Canada, Bay Street).




Originally posted by sonjah1
I truly wish I could ask my dad about his thoughts on the UAW, but he has passed on. He owned GM dealerships at the time -- the stress is probably what put him under.
But I don't think he would pleased with the concept of Government Motors at this time.


There was a time when capitalism was defined by the Ford principal that you paid your workers enough that they could buy your product. Globalism has turned that on its head. Wall Street picks up the difference and the middle class is raped. That's how the largest transfer of capital in history...the post-war bought and paid for real estate passing to the next generation...is hijacked.

And we are told to blame the unions. Not bloody likely.

Howze that serfdom looking so far?
edit on 22-12-2010 by JohnnyCanuck because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 22 2010 @ 05:58 PM
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Originally posted by Misoir





Currently they are doing nothing to help the working class Americans, just another bullying group.


Yes they are! If it wasn't for SAG/AFTRA/AFoL/CIO and my local 480 the studios would pay us min. wage and disregard all the time and effort and education we worked for to hone our craft.

The bottom line/profit for stockholders always comes before the welfare of the people that do the work.

More people will Unionize as they feel the Corps cut the benefits and retirement they were promised. Cost cutting always comes at the expense of the workers. Never at the bonuses and stock options at the top.

In Unity there is Strength !
edit on 22-12-2010 by whaaa because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 22 2010 @ 06:20 PM
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S&F
Very true, the union guys do everything possible to slow a job !!!



posted on Dec, 22 2010 @ 06:23 PM
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Originally posted by MightyWizard
S&F
Very true, the union guys do everything possible to slow a job !!!


More BS, we work our asses off to provide a good and viable product. We have a stake in keeping the studios afloat too.
edit on 22-12-2010 by whaaa because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 22 2010 @ 07:11 PM
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reply to post by whaaa
 


Knowing that the Unions are necessary to spread the wealth, most of the time it is very costly .



posted on Dec, 22 2010 @ 07:30 PM
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reply to post by captaintyinknots
 



1)So your proof is your experience, and nothing more. That is essentially what you are saying.


Well, I'm not just throwing assertions out there (like you). As I've stated, I've been employed in both union and non-union environments as well as owning small businesses that are non-union. Please provide at least some sources/facts for what you are claiming....


2)Keeping businesses costs down does not ensure better wages, benefits, etc. History has proven that 'trickle down' is B.S., and that when the fat cats have more in their pockets, thats where they keep it.


It's worked for me and my family.....I guess I'm a fat cat...NOT


3)Why should someone have to hire a lawyer to defend themself in a comp case? If a worker is hurt, he has a right to the benefit. The only reason they NEED representation is because if they did not have it, there would be no such thing as workers comp, which is proven by the fact that companies employ those to deny benefits at any cost. If they didnt HAVE to pay, they wouldnt.


Once again this is a cultural difference that you wouldn't understand unless you live in Cali. There are lawyers who are willing to take a case based on percentage in the bulk of the cities. You are saying *all* insurance/workers comp providers are unethical? Calling "sweeping generalization" on that one!


4)It's not ad hom, and yes I am calling you racist. Claiming that providing bilingual material is the reason that state is broke is laughable, xenophobic, and yes, racist.


Again, Cali cultural difference. I have friends with children in public schools. Everytime they receive a newsletter from school it is written in over *10* different languages...name another city/state/country like that. I am not racist, if I were I don't thing I'd be married to a green-card holder from the middle east/arab man. I'm not saying that simply providing multilingual material is the reason the state is broke; this is one of hundreds of examples. UNIONS, UNIONS!


5)Cali can be referred to as anything you like. Doesnt change the fact that it is a part of the union, and not a singular entity.


Well, a significant amount of the population views it as stolen from Mexico.....so they think Cali is their country....Mexico....And by the way HR Laws are the ONLY STATE in the US to have a separate test to be PHR certified...so IT IS DIFFERENT!!


6)I did read you initial post, and it proved my point. You are no expert on the subject. Therefore, challenging the opinion of others based on merit alone is quite an empty argument. Great try though.


I think your sarcasm, slams, and illogical attempts to demean me are frustrating and annoying....but I don't see any proof of experience, experise, sources or *facts* on your part with this topic. Once you provide them, I'll be happy to listen to what you have to say....otherwise...7las...

I suspect you don't even live in the US, to tell you the truth....



edit on 22-12-2010 by sonjah1 because: ETA

edit on 22-12-2010 by sonjah1 because: eta



posted on Dec, 22 2010 @ 07:44 PM
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yea blame it on unions ...BLA BLA BLA ...I guess the tax structure that gives benefits to everyone from welfare to tax breaks for moochers with money !!! WTF?????

not the fact Cali is a "sanctuary" for illegals

special perks for millions ?



end the debt cancel all tax breaks/deductions and instuite a import tax balancing the currency rate



posted on Dec, 22 2010 @ 07:48 PM
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without unions, you'd still be being paid 1920 wages 3 cents an hour.

the only problem with unions is when they are corrupted and in league with the companies.



posted on Dec, 22 2010 @ 07:56 PM
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Funny how everyone skips over the part where I state how the corporations and banks are extremely evil as well…


I could rant for hours about the big bankers and CEO’s on how they are destroying America with their greed but so too are the Unions.


Oh well. Guess that was not something that would help support their flame fest.



posted on Dec, 22 2010 @ 08:47 PM
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Originally posted by Misoir
Funny how everyone skips over the part where I state how the corporations and banks are extremely evil as well…

I could rant for hours about the big bankers and CEO’s on how they are destroying America with their greed but so too are the Unions.

Oh well. Guess that was not something that would help support their flame fest.


Ok, but who speaks for the common guy? The Unions moreso than the corporations...look how business handled the economy. The unions are the ones who tried to keep the industry on this continent and keep you and your neighbour in a well paying secure job.

And a flame war? You don't think I am entitled to disagree? Am I throwing out hyperbole or talking from experience as a trained union rep? I've negotiated contracts, taken health and safety training, filed grievances when management broke workplace law...and I'm the schmuck who stands up against the labour lawyers hired by management.

I tell ya...God bless the steward!



posted on Dec, 22 2010 @ 09:21 PM
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reply to post by inforeal
 



The fact that America is going backwards in middle class lifestyle in terms of salary, retirement, job security, the fact of outsourcing and Unionism is indicative that the average American is ignorant and so brainwashed by the Fox News era, that the future of America is bleak.


"the fact of [outsourcing] and Unionism is indicative that the average American is ignorant...the future is bleak."

A little confused here.

Are you anti-union, because you contradict what you said earlier in your post?



posted on Dec, 23 2010 @ 01:13 AM
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Why not simply ban Unions from local, county, state and federal government? This would solve the problem.

Keep the private sector unions, if a union runs a business into the ground and a non-union business is successful, then natural competition will keep the system healthy. Except of course when the government stupidly steps in and bails out a company.

There's no natural competition with the government. Like the living dead a bureaucracy is difficult to kill even for a union. If a bureaucracy lives beyond it's means (high wages, pensions, double-dipping, slow workers and short hours, etc), it simply draws more from taxpayers who have no power to stop it. There are many redundant and unconstitutional agencies in the Federal government, like the department of education, the FTC, the ATF, the TSA, the Department of Transportation, etc.. The IRS could be mostly abolished with a simple flat tax. States already have those departments covered, and there's the 10th amendment.



posted on Dec, 23 2010 @ 07:35 AM
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Originally posted by dbriefed
Why not simply ban Unions from local, county, state and federal government? This would solve the problem.


No...your premise assumes that all unionised workers are lazy and all management is efficient. That just ain't the case.

A collective agreement is a mutually negotiated set of rules for the workplace and agreed upon methods of recourse.

So what's wrong with that?

And why should a good-paying job take a hit because Wall Street and the banks have fleeced you? If you spent as much time going after your lawmakers who allowed your labour force to be raped as you do the victims of this disgrace, you'd be a lot farther ahead.
edit on 23-12-2010 by JohnnyCanuck because: of spelling...can't write it all off as the Canadian way of doing it...



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