It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Why are you so surprised when a soldier snaps?

page: 1
5

log in

join
share:

posted on Dec, 22 2010 @ 09:30 AM
link   
Today's society really blows my mind.

Please understand before I start, in no way do I advocate, nor condone war let alone the actions of soldiers who step "too far".

In the past, when wars were fought. enemies were vanquished, decimated, destroyed.
They were literally scraped off of the map.
We knew that our soldiers killed, raped and pillaged. It was just the way things were because that is how it happened. War is brutal, it is hellish and it has nothing but apathy for anything in its path.
Man is an animal.
You know that.
I know that.
We just happen to be at the top of the food chain at the moment and have a better understanding of how to inflict terror and pain.
(Yes. I know that we are capable of much, much more.)
Over the course of the past hundred years or so, society has attempted to breed out the "Alpha Male" factor and feminize the male model while keeping the convenient macho affectations that keep the reproductive cycle flowing.
But...
We still have wars, which means we still have a need for able bodied soldiers.
So, we bring the new feminized man back into the ranks and attempt to breed the killer "Alpha Male" back into them.
Temporarily.
But... what most do not understand is... The "Alpha Male" wasn't bred out. We just covered it up with old spice, turtle neck sweaters and dumbed it down with prozac and lite beer.
It's still there people. It is there in all of us!
But it is the audacious face that society puts on when a soldier commits an atrocity that simply makes me shake my head.
You can't tell someone to kill, (something which awakens the "Alpha Male" with a vengeance mind you.) and then be shocked when that "kill" command awakens the monster that lives IN ALL OF US and then that random person begins committing horrible acts.
Then... We bring our soldiers home, people who we have instructed to kill and maim, then we tell them to get jobs, find families and above all, that killing thing we had you doing? no more of that ok? Here's some college and a few bucks, now get out there and be good!
But they are not always good, are they?
Most reintegrate with society just fine and do well with the hero status that we bestow upon them.
Others though, are not so lucky.
Some, where the Alpha Male has ferociously awakened, cannot sooth that savage beast.
I am sure that they try to fit in, but it doesn't always work and then they snap.
And what do we say?
Nothing.
Crickets.
But we will prosecute them with a vengeance without ever accepting that...
In the end...
It is our own fault.
We are a repressive society that is right at home with pretending that what we SEE, what we have DONE... is not our fault.
But, it is.
This puritanistic, head in the sand mentality has got to stop.
But it won't.
We are human and we are stupid.
We will not stop until we have destroyed ourselves.

We have created this morass that we so complain about.
You cannot send one out to kill and than react with shock and angst when a beast comes back.

Believe it or not, I am a very positive person.
I have been to the source and came back with much...
But, you would not know that from this fatalistic rant.
And, going against my rule on "voice no argument without a solution"...
I have no answer for you, other than... wake up!

We need to stop thinking in the forms of money and start thinking of the future of the human race.
Because, I believe the our survival is in doubt.

Your thoughts?




posted on Dec, 22 2010 @ 09:51 AM
link   
Where do I start? That's my first thought.

First of all, when I was in the military in the mid '80's, they taught us how how to kill, sure. But they also let us know that this was a job. A business. Don't take it personally. There's an old saying: "Killing is our business, and business is good." The guys who snap, they take it personally. They dropped the ball. They made it into some kind of personal crusade. They failed to remember at some point that it's a job, and that's it.

Secondly, it doesn't surprise me. It disappointments me, but it doesn't surprise me.You have weak people in all walks of life, in every corner of the globe, and that, in my opinion, is why the human race is going to hell in a hand-basket.
edit on 22-12-2010 by InTheShadows because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 22 2010 @ 10:16 AM
link   
reply to post by freshwreckage
 


The way soldiers are bred has always been an interesting topic. Many of us know that the percentage of soldiers who would actually shoot someone in the open, during WW1, was very low on both sides of the war (something like 20%). Since then, this "problem" has been resolved through intense training such as the what the OP refers to.



posted on Dec, 22 2010 @ 11:09 AM
link   
reply to post by freshwreckage
 


Freshwreckage, you didn't say in your OP, but did you serve in the US military, or another country's?

I think I have a over-simplistic explanation for this, but I will put it forth anyhow.

If you served in the US military, then it seems to me that because you did your "job" for "us;" which we should all appreciate and revere, then the military continues to isolate us from the dangers of this world's realities.

Think about it; other than the 9/11 incidents, most Americans have NO IDEA what a real war is about as they have been insulated from attacks.

I know other individuals who have lived through wars as civilians overseas, and suffer from PTSD, nightmares, etc.

Sometimes I think your average American is coddled, and spoiled on these terms....

Those soldiers who "snap" would receive greater empathy from others....if the others weren't so "protected."

Peace and blessings to you, and all who have served!

edit on 22-12-2010 by sonjah1 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 22 2010 @ 11:26 AM
link   
i think most americans do sympathise whith a "snaped" soldier we know about the dark atrocitys of war... hell i dont blame or judge a soldier for going off his rocker
but if he ever evan as much as threatnd my family God help that man cuz im go after him whith evry thinging in my legal limits EVRYTHING
its true that alphamale is alive and well w/ most of us men.
-jplaysguitar
edit on 22-12-2010 by jplaysguitar because: spllng



posted on Dec, 22 2010 @ 11:57 AM
link   

Originally posted by InTheShadows
First of all, when I was in the military in the mid '80's, they taught us how how to kill, sure. But they also let us know that this was a job. A business. Don't take it personally.

That's exactly what the OP is talking about. Brainwashing. The Government frames the narrative before the inevitable happens.

They train the soldiers that if anyone does anything out of the ordinary ("goes crazy") that it's because they took it "personally", that they didn't treat it like "business". Basically, they place the blame on the soldier's personality. This is the feminization he was speaking of.

The military wants to retain and nourish the "kill" on the battlefield, but after the battlefield they want the "kill" to disappear.

Of course, this is a complete fantasy.

The reality is that on the battlefield, killing isn't "business". It's personal. Soldiers fight on the battlefield precisely because it is personal. They fight to protect their buddies, their friends. Soldiers don't fight against "terrorism" or for their "country". Soldiers fight for love of their squad, platoon, etc. To protect them or gain vengeance against their death.

The government knows this, the soldiers know this, the military academics know this. But to protect themselves, the Government will brainwash the soldiers into thinking that if they follow their natural human drive after battle (to continue using killing as the tool to solve issues affecting their personal situation) , that they (the Gov't) are not responsible. The Government wants to distance itself from these inevitable occurrences and characterizes what the soldiers do in battle as "courage" and in the private sector as "crazy".

For the most part, the Government's brainwashing seems to be quite effective, as soldiers don't snap nearly as often as they would otherwise, and both the former brethren soldiers and public at large seem to conform to the Government's narrative for the most part.
edit on 22-12-2010 by harrytuttle because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 22 2010 @ 01:09 PM
link   
Yes.
I was in the military but, not during any wartime.



posted on Dec, 22 2010 @ 01:24 PM
link   
War makes you snap. What is worse is when they find out they went to war for the wrong reasons. The vast majority of soldiers fighting "terrorism" today don't know the real mission is to secure the natural resources, the occupants of Iraq and Afghanistan be dammed. They come home to find out they are not the good guys in the war, but the evil invaders. This is far worse than a few guys 'snapping".



posted on Dec, 23 2010 @ 03:43 AM
link   
Some of the things that drive them to snap.
1. Getting spit on and called babykillers when they returned..
2. Shoved aside by the government when no longer of use .. And no assistance to reintegrate or help for problems that resulted from service.
3. Unable to get job as people woulnt hire combat vets.
4. Unable to get higher education due to hatred of vets on campus.. All of which have happened.. I speak from having went through it.. Luckily was smart went abroad and furthered my education along with worked.. Many werent so lucky..



posted on Dec, 23 2010 @ 03:48 AM
link   
reply to post by brianmg5
 
5% just because

95% to not get shot themselves



posted on Dec, 23 2010 @ 03:51 AM
link   
War is a "Snap!",some #ing #head decides to send his young ignorant,programmed post pubescent boys to do his bidding.

They Dunno any better,and I Dunno,is it that much of a #ing accident that they don't?.

War is just "Wrong"............

Been there,Done that,not doin it again.



posted on Dec, 24 2010 @ 10:16 AM
link   
"War is wrong"

Since it is something that humans have does since our dawn...
Could it simply be something that is inherent to our genetic makeup?
And... if that is the case...
Is it still wrong?



posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 11:18 PM
link   
Why is it that people think that the Alpha Male has to be a barbarian? The Alpha Male is the toughest and the leader of the pack. The leader of the pack is the one that the other males look up to and try to emulate. There's a difference between being strong and being a narcissistic jerk; there's a difference between being a leader and a tyrant. If the Alpha Male is supposed to do things like rape and pillage, then I think it's a wonderful thing that we've tried to breed him out; he's obviously detrimental to the advancement of our species.



posted on Dec, 31 2010 @ 01:10 AM
link   
"The "Alpha Male" wasn't bred out. We just covered it up with old spice, turtle neck sweaters and dumbed it down with prozac and lite beer."

I always watch for that one in the crowd too....Still wondering how to reajust back into society.



posted on Dec, 31 2010 @ 01:27 AM
link   
It's because today with modern transportation, soldiers are allowed zero transition time from full combat to home. A soldier needs ten days to two weeks of inactive down time, quiet time, time with his brother soldiers to sort things out.

When they bring soldiers from combat operations home on aircraft, they do the soldier and the soldier's family a great disservice.

Which means what could have been pretty much handled in a non-active environment in two weeks will now take decades to overcome. Then there are a few who are on the edge and the least thing can push them back into the full assault mindset.



posted on Dec, 31 2010 @ 02:31 AM
link   
reply to post by freshwreckage
 


That was a beautiful post, sir. Sums up my feelings on the matter almost exactly. You cannot create a killer and expect that killer not to do what he or she was created for. You can't expect something to go against its nature when that nature is awakened. A bear is a bear, a duck is a duck, an apple tree is an apple tree and no matter how you dress it up an apple tree only grows apple. While humans are complex creatures (yet not as complex as we like to believe we are), once that killswitch is flipped it is hard to turn it off again. Killing is an instinct like breathing, eating, #ing and sleeping and like any instinct its difficult to deny especially when aroused. Those that turn these kids, these men and women, these people into killers should be responsible for those killers instead of sweeping them under the rug and pretending that they don't exist. These soldiers were in a warzone. Everyday of their lives over there is and was spent in wondering whether today would finally be the day the died or the next or the next or the next. Have any of you felt like that? Have any of you lived day in and day out with the specter of death poised over your heads, never knowing when that scythe would strike the life from your body, but being almost certain that it would come and soon? Have any of you watched friends, comrades, die and being able to do nothing about it? Have any of you seen a dead child, its body torn to shreds by automatic weapons fire or reduced to pulp by an explosive? Have you smelled the urine and the fesces and the blood and gore that cling to places of death? And you say that those people who let it become "personal" are weak. You say killing is a "business". Battle is the heat of the moment it is kill or be killed. It is survival of the strongest, the most cunning, the luckiest. All men become monsters during those moments and their only goal is to survive and get their comrades to survival (if that even registers at the time). It is instinct, it is necessary, it is survival and all animals will do almost anything to live another day. Right and wrong cease to matter at that point. Civilization does not exist. All that exists is you, the enemy, and the looming of the grave. They may sign up for war under a sense of justice or nobility or whatever other higher human emotion or ideal motivates them, but there, on that battlefield, they are not fighting for me, or you, or any country or idea. They are fighting simply to survive. And you people expect them to come home all hunky dory and pretend that didn't happen? War is insane, its stupid, its vile and 99% of the time it is completely and irrevocably unnecessary, but worse than that is what you expect from these soldiers. Granted, some of the them do come home just fine out of sheer force of will alone (and the support of loved ones), but alot do not. Alot cannot overcome those baser instincts, the most powerful of those instincts. How many of you could go ten days, let alone thirty without eating? How many of you could go a week without sleep with no chemical aid? How many of you could go without sexual release of some kind for any significant amount of time? How many of you could deny a biological imperative? Not many. Don't say others are weak when you yourselves are weak.
I am not saying humans are complete monsters or any other such self-hating, nihilistic, psychobabble, but simply that WE ARE ALL ANIMALS and going against ones nature is very difficult at best.



new topics




 
5

log in

join