reply to post by IAMIAM
"Who did Christ critisise, rebuke, or punish?
He critisized the Pharisees and the Sadducees because they held themselves up over others as the sole arbiters of God's word. More so, they did it
for personal gain.
Who did he punish? No one."
He criticised the disciples in Mark 16:12-18 for their unbelief and stubborness. He then told them, “Go into the whole world and proclaim the good
news to every creature. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever doesn’t believe will be condemned." Jesus did not punish
anyone, but He certainly warned of coming judgement.
If he is not referring to judgement, what can He mean by condemned? Jesus also criticised Herod and referred to him as "That fox". In addition to
the reasons you listed for why Jesus criticised others, He criticised powerful people for ignoring the biblical principles of justice, faithfulness,
"Violence only begets further violence my friend. You cannot do violence and claim it is doing good. Christ could have used violence to save his
life. It may have even lead to inspiring the jews to revolt. He may have even earned a Kingdom for the Jews and driven the Romans out had he resorted
to violence. Is this the Kingdom Christ had in mind?"
Violence is sometimes a necessary thing. Dealing with morals and what is right is not cut and dry, and it is not easy. If violence is necessary to
stop the harm of someone who is innocent, it is justified. God instructed man to use violence in certain situations. There were prophets in the Old
Testament that Jesus said were good and holy people, that had to resort to violence. While Jesus taught love, it would be remiss of us to boil
everything down to nothing but peaceful feelings all the time. Mark 3:5 "He looked around at them in anger, deeply distressed at their stubborn
hearts." Jesus was a man and had emotions. The Bible says do not let your anger lead you to sin. It doesn't say that being angry is wrong. By
the way some people speak, you would think that Jesus never did anything that wasn't 100% "nice".
Yes, Jesus could have used violence to save His life, but that wasn't God's plan for him. God had a bigger plan than saving a single kingdom.
Jesus dies so that we may all be saved. Further, it is one thing to allow oneself to be killed if done for a holy reason. That may be good and
moral. It is not moral to stand around and watch innocent people be harmed because one doesn't want to commit an act of violence. Again, things are
not so cut and dry. Different situations require different reactions.
Jesus said, “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to turn ‘a
man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law---a man’s enemies will be the members of his own
household", in Matthew 10:34-36.
If you look at the definition of "pacifist", you can see that Jesus was not a pacifist. Revelation 19:15, speaking of Jesus, "Out of His mouth
comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. He will rule them with an iron scepter. He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of
Too often people try to make it sound as though Jesus was a pacifist, never angry, etc. This is not the case, as the Bible speaks of judgement, wrath
and anger on numerous occasions. It is not right to diminish these passages.
"What is Satan but the temptation to do harm to each other?"
The fallen angel Lucifer, who indeed does tempt us to do harm to each other, and ourselves.
"Can't you see this Holy war even in your own reply?"
Indeed I can. I haven't been commanded to sit back and watch as people spread false teachings. Nowhere in the Bible do I get that message. I feel
compelled to speak against that which I believe to be false, and I do.
"This is a twist on Christs own teachings and the interpretations of others. Christ taught that we are ALL Gods Children. That we are to love each
other. Christ was the Son of God, so are you. Does the divine spirit not inhabit all life?"
Can you explain how what you quoted me saying was a twist on Christ's own teachings? No, I don't believe the divine spirit inhabits all life. This
is why, "Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out
into the world. This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God,
but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is
already in the world. You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the
world. They are from the world and therefore speak from the viewpoint of the world, and the world listens to them. We are from God, and whoever knows
God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood."
Jesus made it very clear that we are not all blessed with the Spirit.
"If that is the crux of the Bible, then I do not believe Christians understand Christ's teachings at all. Perhaps carefully reading the Gospels
would shed some light. Pay particular attention to phrases such as, the least of you shall be the greatest, the kingdom of God is within you, heaven
is right before your eyes but you do not see it, love one another, most especially his commandments - Love God with all your being and your neighbor
as yourself. Notice there were no exceptions in his commandments."
I think that if you think the "Beatitudes" are the central reason for why Jesus came to earth, I believe you are mistaken. That is essentially what
you listed there. You seem to imply that I advocate not loving someone. That is not the case. Just because you have a disagreement with someone, or
are upset with someone, doesn't mean that you do not love them. Luke 19:10, "For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost." 1 Timothy 1:15
"The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the foremost." 2
Corinthians 5:19 "that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the
message of reconciliation." Of course John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not
perish but have eternal life." Jesus Himself talked about His own death numerous times before it occured. He knew why He was sent here. Teaching
us, and reminding us of God's Commandment's was part of it. Jesus was sent here to die on the cross to save us all from eternal damnation. Notice
the verses that say Jesus came into the world to save sinners, through His death on the cross. If you don't think that's the crux of the Bible, we
can agree to disagree.
"I thought Christ was the most important message in the Bible, not as saviour for HE never made the claim, but as teacher."
Are you saying that Jesus never claimed to be our savior through His death on the cross? John 8:24 "I said therefore to you, that you shall die in
your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you shall die in your sins." John 14:6 "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to
the Father, but through Me." Matthew 26:26-32, at the "last supper", Jesus makes it clear that He will be killed so that we may be saved. John
11:25 "Jesus said to her, 'I am the resurrection and the life. The one who believes in me will live, even though they die;'"
Jesus made it very clear who He was. He claimed to be the Son of God, a forgiver of sins, and our savior.
Thank you for your responses. I truly enjoy your kindness, even if I do not agree with everything that you say. God bless you.