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High-Level Masonry

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posted on Dec, 21 2010 @ 07:21 PM
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It is apparent that a portion of Secret Societ conspiracy theorists believe that there is a cabal of 'higher-level' Masons somehow controlling or manipulating lower-level Masons, either through coercion or deception. I would like those that adhere to this theory to explain to me, and the forum in general, what constitutes a High-Level Mason.

Is it there degree? If so, and in your opinion, what, if any import does this have in relation to Masonry on the whole.

Is it their soical status?

Is it their political status?

Or is it some other designator that you feel applies?

I would be also obliged if you could provide names of the people in question so as to debate their perceived 'High-Level' status and its relationship to Masonry.

 




posted on Dec, 21 2010 @ 07:36 PM
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reply to post by AugustusMasonicus
 


A High-Level Mason is a mason that have reached the top of his order, that being York or Scottish Rite etc.
Now do not confuse this with the Higher Echelon, that we also talk about, because the Higher Echelon, is what some refer to as the Illuminati (NO we are not talking about the Bavarian Illuminati, but for lack of better word, we chose to call it Illuminati) Since obviously the Higher Echelons name would either be none-existent (clever tactic) or unknown to us (Us= conspiracy theorists)

A High-Level Mason, could also be holding degrees in other orders, like Knights Templar or Rosicrucians, but really any higher order, that requires membership of one of the lesser lodges. (I know in theory, you could become a MM from a blue lodge and then join the Knights Templar, I have yet to see a single case of this happening though)

Therefore I speculate that the higher echelon (the one we cannot see) would have degrees like every other secret society that we know about.
The connection to Masonry, is in the secrets, rituals, symbolism etc. And thats IT, there might be indirect connections, because a High-Level Mason also holds degrees in masonry, but no direct connection between the secret societies!

I can bring you some names, but for now, lets get this very good thread started.

S+F for you!



posted on Dec, 21 2010 @ 07:39 PM
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Ok I will throw in a name to get the ball rolling: Rupert Murdoch!



posted on Dec, 21 2010 @ 07:50 PM
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Originally posted by Schrödinger
A High-Level Mason is a mason that have reached the top of his order, that being York or Scottish Rite etc.


But why would a person who is the head of an appendant body have any sway over Masons who are not invloved with that body? Ronald Seale, who is the Sovereign Inspector for the Southern Jurisdiction, has no influence over Scottish RIte members in the North, let alone Blue Lodge Masons in the South.


Now do not confuse this with the Higher Echelon, that we also talk about, because the Higher Echelon, is what some refer to as the Illuminati (NO we are not talking about the Bavarian Illuminati, but for lack of better word, we chose to call it Illuminati)


I think this is a case of semantics. When I refer to 'High-Level' Masons I am refering to what is common pratice by conspiracy theorists of claiming 'High-Level' Masons run the Fraternity for their own ends. You can call them High-Level or Higher Echelon, I see no differentiation for the sake of this discussion.


Since obviously the Higher Echelons name would either be none-existent (clever tactic) or unknown to us (Us= conspiracy theorists)


This is a rather convenient situation for conspiracy theorists and puts them in the position of being able to make nebulous claims with out any substantiation.


A High-Level Mason, could also be holding degrees in other orders, like Knights Templar or Rosicrucians, but really any higher order, that requires membership of one of the lesser lodges. (I know in theory, you could become a MM from a blue lodge and then join the Knights Templar, I have yet to see a single case of this happening though)


Which Knights Templar are you refering to?



edit on 21-12-2010 by AugustusMasonicus because: Networkdude has no beer



posted on Dec, 21 2010 @ 07:52 PM
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Originally posted by Schrödinger
Ok I will throw in a name to get the ball rolling: Rupert Murdoch!


I am not aware of the fact that Rupert Murdoch is a Mason. Can you please direct me to where you may have come across this information?



posted on Dec, 21 2010 @ 08:00 PM
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All I know is there is a lot of conjecture and presumptions of who and what the Masons are. I hold no opinion either way and simply see them as fellow Human beings in their own quests for knowledge and understanding in life and as with every organization on this planet at either micro or macro levels there will always be an individual/individuals within it that seemingly have malevolent intentions to the rest of the people outside. My 2 cents.



posted on Dec, 21 2010 @ 08:01 PM
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reply to post by AugustusMasonicus
 


You are misunderstanding something!
I am exactly saying that the Sovereign Inspector for the Southern Jurisdiction, has no DIRECT influence over Scottish Rite members in the North!
It's like the problem with the media, journalist aren't told what they aren't allowed to ask, since that would just be obvious, instead they are "guided" into "thinking" in a specific "mindset" another word is; self-censorship!

And it is not a case of semantics, the higher echelon is a name I use instead of Illuminati (because that name is just polluted, and cannot be mentioned in a debate, without someone insisting that the Bavarian Illuminati is extinct (which I agree with by the way)

So a High-Level Mason could be a member of the Higher Echelon, it is not an absolute.

Yes it might seem "convenient" that the theory involves a secret society not visible to the public, but that is the premise for this theory none the less.

I am refering to the Poor Fellow-Soldiers of Christ and of the Temple of Solomon aka Knights Templars!



posted on Dec, 21 2010 @ 08:12 PM
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Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by Schrödinger
Ok I will throw in a name to get the ball rolling: Rupert Murdoch!


I am not aware of the fact that Rupert Murdoch is a Mason. Can you please direct me to where you may have come across this information?


Would you please direct me to your source claiming he is not?

I am just making an assumption, that he when studying at a Masonic College*1, was introduced to fraternities*2, and from there learned about secret societies. (Freemasons, being the direct route to take)

Is it that far fetched to believe that one of the most powerful people of the earth, tries to better himself as a human being, seeking membership with his enlightened brothers in Freemasonry?

You never mentioned that we where only allowed to mention public person KNOWN to be masons!


*1 Oxford
*2 Delta Chi



posted on Dec, 21 2010 @ 08:12 PM
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Originally posted by Schrödinger
You are misunderstanding something!
I am exactly saying that the Sovereign Inspector for the Southern Jurisdiction, has no DIRECT influence over Scottish Rite members in the North!
It's like the problem with the media, journalist aren't told what they aren't allowed to ask, since that would just be obvious, instead they are "guided" into "thinking" in a specific "mindset" another word is; self-censorship!

And it is not a case of semantics, the higher echelon is a name I use instead of Illuminati (because that name is just polluted, and cannot be mentioned in a debate, without someone insisting that the Bavarian Illuminati is extinct (which I agree with by the way)



I am glad you clarified that. However, you did mention earlier that a 'High-Level' Mason is one who has reached that top of his order. Ronald Seale has done just that. Are you saying that 'High-Level' Masons acutally have no influence over the Craft and that it is generated from an unamed group that you warily refer to the Illuminati (for lack of a better name)?

If so, how can one prove this as without names and affiliations it is all rather amorphous?


So a High-Level Mason could be a member of the Higher Echelon, it is not an absolute.

Yes it might seem "convenient" that the theory involves a secret society not visible to the public, but that is the premise for this theory none the less.


But to me the theory is hollow without any further substantiation. It is all predicated on inuendo and supposition.


I am refering to the Poor Fellow-Soldiers of Christ and of the Temple of Solomon aka Knights Templars!


I did not know they still existed. There is a Knights Templar order in the York Rite.



posted on Dec, 21 2010 @ 08:15 PM
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I am tired its 4 in the morning here.

I was referring to The United Religious, Military and Masonic Orders of the Temple and of St John of Jerusalem, Palestine, Rhodes and Malta! NOT the Poor Fellow-Soldiers of Christ and of the Temple of Solomon!



posted on Dec, 21 2010 @ 08:19 PM
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Originally posted by Schrödinger
Would you please direct me to your source claiming he is not?


You want me to prove a negative?

There a list upon list of 'famous' Freemasons as Masons are proud of anyone who was a member of the Fraternity and went on to success in life. Someone of Murdoch's status, head of an international news orginization, would have most certainly made the list. Additionally, there would have been members who would have sat in Lodge with him and could have vouched for his membership.


I am just making an assumption, that he when studying at a Masonic College*1, was introduced to fraternities*2, and from there learned about secret societies. (Freemasons, being the direct route to take)


I was unware that Oxford is a Masonic institution. What makes it so?


Is it that far fetched to believe that one of the most powerful people of the earth, tries to better himself as a human being, seeking membership with his enlightened brothers in Freemasonry?


No, not at all, many have gone on to great success in life while Masons.


You never mentioned that we where only allowed to mention public person KNOWN to be masons!


It would make it easier to have a rational discussion, as if we were to go in the other direction the next poster could claim that Lady Gaga was a Mason.



posted on Dec, 21 2010 @ 08:20 PM
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Originally posted by Schrödinger
I am tired its 4 in the morning here.


No worries.


I was referring to The United Religious, Military and Masonic Orders of the Temple and of St John of Jerusalem, Palestine, Rhodes and Malta! NOT the Poor Fellow-Soldiers of Christ and of the Temple of Solomon!


Thank you for clarifing.



posted on Dec, 21 2010 @ 08:21 PM
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Originally posted by Epsillion70
All I know is there is a lot of conjecture and presumptions of who and what the Masons are. I hold no opinion either way and simply see them as fellow Human beings in their own quests for knowledge and understanding in life and as with every organization on this planet at either micro or macro levels there will always be an individual/individuals within it that seemingly have malevolent intentions to the rest of the people outside. My 2 cents.


This is a very sound opinion and I tend to agree. There will always be the occasional bad apple, but it should not be reflective on the whole.



posted on Dec, 21 2010 @ 08:22 PM
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reply to post by AugustusMasonicus
 


No that is not what I am saying, of course they have influence over the craft, they are highly respected and honored members of the association and community. Saying they have no influence would be false, however there is no direct chain of command. It is not like a 33 degree mason can command a 13th degree mason, just because he "out ranks" him for lack of better term (yes I know you claim that the degrees are honorary degrees, but I disagree there, thats for another thread though)

If I could prove it, it would not be a theory, now would it?
I have written around 100+ pages of articles on exactly this matter, connecting the dots I have found from ancient mystery schools to modern secret societies. I do not believe there are some thought of unbroken chain dating back to Sumer or Babylon, but a chain of ideology, ideas and thoughts, rituals and symbols!

If you took the time to read some of the articles many of us has written, you would not be saying it was unsubstantiated, you could say however that it was a conspiracy theory about secret societies.



posted on Dec, 21 2010 @ 08:27 PM
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reply to post by AugustusMasonicus
 


You wan't me to bring you proof, knowing very well that I cannot prove that he was a Mason, I just believe he is connected to the secret societies one way or another
(emphasis on believe)
I know the list, and there are many famous masons not on it


You weren't aware that Oxford where built by masons? (Never said it was a Masonic Institution)
Wow, well I will provide you with evidence of that claim!



If you deny that masons build this, well I guess we are done here


Fair enough, you only want Masons, which have publicly acknowledged they are Masons. Your thread your rules, however you are limiting our playing field here



posted on Dec, 21 2010 @ 08:29 PM
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Originally posted by Schrödinger
No that is not what I am saying, of course they have influence over the craft, they are highly respected and honored members of the association and community. Saying they have no influence would be false, however there is no direct chain of command. It is not like a 33 degree mason can command a 13th degree mason, just because he "out ranks" him for lack of better term (yes I know you claim that the degrees are honorary degrees, but I disagree there, thats for another thread though)


Well, technically you can give orders to a subordinate degree, the caveat is most members do not remain at said degree for long and rapidly (sometimes in a weekend) reach the 'top' of their respective appendant body.


If I could prove it, it would not be a theory, now would it?


So I can safely assume that, in your opinion, not one Mason who is known to be so is considered a 'High-Level' Mason and is part of this conspiritorial cabal?


I have written around 100+ pages of articles on exactly this matter, connecting the dots I have found from ancient mystery schools to modern secret societies. I do not believe there are some thought of unbroken chain dating back to Sumer or Babylon, but a chain of ideology, ideas and thoughts, rituals and symbols!


Please link a few and I promise to read them. I would prefer articles not already located on this website.



posted on Dec, 21 2010 @ 08:33 PM
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Originally posted by Schrödinger
You wan't me to bring you proof, knowing very well that I cannot prove that he was a Mason, I just believe he is connected to the secret societies one way or another
(emphasis on believe)
I know the list, and there are many famous masons not on it


If you feel you must list them just know that it will be seriously scrutinized.


You weren't aware that Oxford where built by masons? (Never said it was a Masonic Institution)
Wow, well I will provide you with evidence of that claim!



If you deny that masons build this, well I guess we are done here


Ah, operative Masons. Your pun is well taken.


Fair enough, you only want Masons, which have publicly acknowledged they are Masons. Your thread your rules, however you are limiting our playing field here



I do not want to overly constrict anyone, the free-flow of discussion is what I most want. Please see my above comment on who may be perceived as a non-Mason.



posted on Dec, 21 2010 @ 08:33 PM
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Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus
So I can safely assume that, in your opinion, not one Mason who is known to be so is considered a 'High-Level' Mason and is part of this conspiritorial cabal?

Please link a few and I promise to read them. I would prefer articles not already located on this website.



I would not be safe in my assumptions when dealing with me
But no, you can't! Of the top of my head I cannot mention one, that does not mean I haven't stumbled upon one!
My focus isn't really on Freemasonry alone, I see a connection between all secret societies. Freemasons just get allot of flack because you are kind of in my line of fire here :p

My articles where mainly posted here, they where posted elsewhere as well, but I assure you they where all conspiracy sites likes this

Still want the links? I could just link you the most relevant ones, U2U me if you are interested


EDIT: Come to think of it, I am actually pretty sure we have debated this before! In a thread I made :p Deja vu?
edit on 21-12-2010 by Schrödinger because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 21 2010 @ 08:35 PM
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Not going to get into the whole "are Masons evil" argument, but to forestall the back and forth like a bad tennis match, I shall help out and toss out a couple names of known Freemasons. Whether or not they are part of the Evil Overlord Cabal is up to individual researchers.

George Washington. First President, rather famous Mason. Did quite a bit of good for us, not so much for England.

Franklin Delano Roosevelt. President. New Deal, new war.

Laurel and Hardy. Comedians, vaudevillians and film celebrities. Sons of the Desert, according to popular lore, is supposed to be rife with "secret Masonic symbols". Funny guys.

John Glenn. Astronaut. Pretty good at being the first to walk on the Moon, pretty bad at remembering scripted lines. Supposedly put a Masonic flag on the Moon. Can't wait to hear about that lodge...

Michael Richards. Comedian (bad) and actor (worse). Two claims to fame : Cosmo Kramer and heckling hecklers.

These were just a few that I felt safe tossing out there - again, not claiming they're evil, per se, but these are recognized Masons. (There are too many pics of GW wearing his apron, MR has admitted he's a Mason, if I'm not terribly mistaken the Lodge in DC has a replica of the flag JG planted, and there are too many tales of FDR and L&H.)

Again, not choosing a side, just providing some names for both to use as they see fit.



posted on Dec, 21 2010 @ 08:35 PM
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Originally posted by Schrödinger
Still want the links? I could just link you the most relevant ones, U2U me if you are interested


I appreciate the invite but I would prefer that you link them here in case anyone else may be interested. It may further others exploration of the topic as well.



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