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Christians, will you be Martyrs for Christ or for Israel?

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posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 12:10 PM
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reply to post by RSF77
I just read your introduction. I agree that you probably have higher than normal intelligence, judging by your response.


Let's agree that the actual scenario of having a gun pointed at you is quite different than typing on a computer,

I recently read that the guilty verdict came down on the July 28, 2006 Naveed Haq killing of Jewish Federation of Greater Seattle campaign manager Pamela Waechter. Seattle PI, December 15, 2009 Jury finds Haq guilty in Jewish Federation Center shootings: Life sentence likely in Washington state's "worst hate crime"
The story, of course, makes very little mention of the Israeli war with Lebanon Timeline of Military Operations in the 2006 Lebanon War

I was following the events of the war, in which airports were bombed, hospitals severely damaged, ambulances deliberately targeted, UN observation post bombed, killing UN observers, whole apartment building blocks destroyed in southern Beirut, millions of US supplied cluster bomblets dropped in Southern Lebanon. Mark Regev was on US television wall-to-wall explaining how what would seem to be gross violations of law of war were all perfectly fine for Israel to do. I can't find the references now, but I remember that the Jewish Federation of Greater Seattle was holding rallies in support of Israel's right to do all these things in Lebanon, and I do believe that Pamela Waechter was leading those rallies.

I think there is a line that can be crossed from speech to actual participation in war crimes. The shooter, Naveed Haq seemed to think so. I know it's a slippery slope, but that's how the martyrdom gig works. From my point of view, Pamela Waechter was a martyr for Israel's right to do anything and everything with impunity.


I wonder, have there been any instances of anyone failing to commit the act because they realized it was stupid?

Actually, I did consider going to Palestine and protesting the illegal Jewish only settlements and reconsidered. After all, Rachel Corrie has been officially written off by the US, I would just be another write-off. I think H.D. Thoreau was a little naive when he wrote that one just man going to prison unjustly could make a major difference. In a completely de-sensitized society any amount of injustice can simply go un-noticed.




posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 12:18 PM
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Why would anyone say "i'd die for Jesus"

Die for a man that existed over 2k years ago?!?! Does that make any sense? I appreciate the fact that people believe in their "man god" but seriously...get real!

Theres no actual proof he ever existed in the first place, aside from a few obsure writings in a book thats been remastered over and over again

so you might as well say "i'd die for mickey mouse"

Do you people really find your life holds such little value?

Religious brainwashing much?



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 07:58 PM
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reply to post by pthena
 


Thanks for the compliment, though I have to admit when it comes to the middle east I am a bit ignorant by choice. So much evidence of bad human nature being thrown at my face all the time and I can't stand to even think about it for long, so this may make me less intelligent concerning any ATS standards. You might say that this doesn't give me the right to say anything about the process of becoming a martyr or judge any potential ones, and I suppose it does to a certain extent, but IMHO we could all use a little anti-suicide propaganda every now and then.



posted on Dec, 31 2010 @ 11:32 AM
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Correction for Post post by pthena


I was mistaken about Pamela Waechter. She was campaign manager for fund drive activities, not the "supporting whatever Israel does" rally.


www.veteranstoday.com...
Jewish Federation board chair Robin Boehler cheered the crowd on: "This event serves one purpose: to come together as a community to show support for Israel". During the attack, Israeli forces turned Lebanon into a "free-fire zone," as Kenneth Roth of Human Rights Watch put it. They also killed over a thousand Lebanese people mostly civilians and about 30% children under the age of 13, according to UNICEF, injured thousands more and drove nearly a million people from their homes.



edit on 31-12-2010 by pthena because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 31 2010 @ 12:46 PM
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reply to post by RSF77
When I started the thread, I had an older Christian definition of martyrdom in mind.

Martyr
In its original meaning, the word martyr, meaning witness, was used in the secular sphere as well as in the New Testament of the Bible.[1] The process of bearing witness was not intended to lead to the death of the witness, although it is known from ancient writers (e.g. Josephus) and from the New Testament that witnesses often died for their testimonies.

It seems to me that the modern usage of 'fighter for religion who dies in the process' is a Sikh idea developed during Muslim vs Sikh fighting in the Punjab, from above wikipedia article.

As for ignorance of Middle East history and affairs, I must confess complete ignorance until about age 46.

The examples I use in the thread are unintentional (from the victim's side) deaths. My motive was actually to challenge Christians to think about what it is that is really important enough to die for and not be embarrassed about later. Example: "I am really embarrassed, now that I realize that I died for the right of some country to engage in ethnic cleansing! Any chance of a do-over here?" And Christians generally don't believe in do-overs.

edit on 31-12-2010 by pthena because: (no reason given)



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