Christians, will you be Martyrs for Christ or for Israel?

reply to post by Expat888

never carried a weapon and never will. Theres always better ways to solve problems without using violence.. As to fools and idiots am refer to people too blinded by propaganda, religion, greed and all the other idiotic reasons humans slaughter each other for no reason..

In many respects I live the life of a recluse, as if I've withdrawn prematurely from the stage after experiencing and participating in some of what goes on in the world. It seems like a foolish thing to even say, but I will anyway: There are people who have much more fortitude than I do. You sir, are one of those. Thank you.

I ask you for your perspective then. If a person has already woken up to the fact that they have been participating in actions justified by propaganda, religion, (by religion I mean one accepted from someone else but not thoroughly examined), greed etc, do you find that self justification ("I did it, I'm not bad, so it must be ok") prevents a person from changing his path?

reply to post by halfoldman

I'd die for Israel, if I had to make a choice.
There are many, many unfair and wrong things, but ultimately it's a solid modern state.
I hope they never hand over power like white South Africa did.
This hate crime proves that some are fundamentalist, racist people stuck in medieval times.
I prefer a country with gay rights, and I will criticize it, but never stop supporting it as such.

Now I must admit that when I started this thread I thought it would be "a slam dunk", as George Tenet would say. I can be as naive as the next man it seems.

Even with the criticisms you have, still the idea of a modern state is worth your life. Do I understand correctly that you would consider a Jewish minority with authority over a "gentile" majority in a single state as superior and more modern than a single democratic state? I put it in terms of a single state because I don't think there is enough land or resources for two states, I could be wrong though.

As for "fundamentalist, racist people stuck in medieval times", I don't think it had to be that way. I'm learning the history as I go. It almost seems that you would consider the land better off if the British Mandate had never ended. There was a short time of flowering, before partition was implemented when resources were used to make the area a fit place to immigrate to, 1910s 1920s perhaps. If development had continued without partition maybe a transition to independence could have been possible. A lot of would have, could have, should have, I know.

reply to post by illuminnaughty

before you all become martys for israel, first take a trip to israel. were you will be spat at and abused by our nice jewish friends. Dont forget to that to our nice jewish friends that you are nothing but an animal there to be used and abused

Tours for potential donors are carefully arranged so those sorts of incidents don't occur. Off the tour routes may be different. I've seen a film clip of those behaviours before. I've got no idea how representative that would be. You better control your words though.

reply to post by pthena


Christ the LAMB follower.

reply to post by Archangelelijah

What Israels fail to realize is that they to are Christians and Christians Israelis. We are all Jewish and experience the same as eachother.

Labels can be dangerous when not properly respected. Though I may accept the first sentence on a certain level, I don't accept the second at all.

An Israelite is a member of a confederacy of tribes. Ideally, when taken to its logical and somewhat ideological conclusion it could include people of every nation, tribe, tongue, and people. That is the ideology of Christianity.

The way I understand it is Jewishness is a rejection of the concept of confederacy, whereby only one tribe truly matters, and to be in, is to be adopted into that one, all important tribe. As such, there is a vast difference between those two sentences of yours.

It seems to me, that if a cross is a positive image, then the Romans, by killing people on it, were insulting and degrading people. I fail to see much positive in that.

This just affirms my belief that the world would be a much better place without religion. People find the dumbest things to fight about. Why cant they just all agree to disagree. I mean what does it matter if my religious views are different from yours.

reply to post by EternalChef


It doesnt matter to those of us who can recognize most religions are trying to help us all. Its the petty of the species who make fights about which religious teachings 1 received and from where and not the mission to brighten ones outlook on living with others in peace..

I will die to protect my partner, children, siblings or parents, that is the only sacrifice I will make. (unless its a large group of people that my life would be saving, ie burning bus // building etc)

Christians are the scum the Earth to me. That's how I see Christianity. False teachings and plagiarism of many different faiths. I just hate Christians. Judaism is truth!

www.jewsforjudaism.org...
www.messiahtruth.com...

reply to post by pthena


Control my words? why??? Its the truth, according to the rabbis who spout this utter crap. It would much better that they control their words. Rather than say offensive things. Goyim= animal = untermensch, now where have i heard that before? wasnt there some evil people that used to call people that? Oh yes now I remember, it was those evil nazies that the goyim saved the jews from in ww 2

This concept of "martyrdom" has the potential to destroy entire civilizations.

Just a fair warning.

reply to post by xiphias


I agree. There should be no need if we all behave as 1 family.

reply to post by illuminnaughty

Control my words? why??? Its the truth, according to the rabbis who spout this utter crap. It would much better that they control their words. Rather than say offensive things. Goyim= animal = untermensch,

I'm sorry for acting officious, I was thinking of the mods, maybe even playing for their benefit. There are rules though, some of my friends have been banned. Bums me out.

Yes, the rabbis do say and teach those things, "untermensch" less than human? Many people resent that. And yes, it has been used over and over in our sordid history.

Other than those you love and care about there is no cause on earth risking your life for,I'll certainly not be a useful tool for either the propogators of the Christ fable or the Zionists both these causes can vanish of the earth as far as I care.

reply to post by ObviousTroll


So,how would you solve this christian
problem the world has?
What do you think about Jesus/Yeshua?
What is your honest opinion of the state
of Israel?
Would you be willing to die for your beliefs?

Jesus the rabbi? I believe the jewish folk consider him to be some kind of traitor. Hes supposed to be in a burning pot of excrement according to them. So any christian should consider this when they want to die for israel. Personally I dont believe in the spirit in the sky. There religius heaven would be hell to me. I would rather go to hell. In fact these religius people have made earth a hell.

reply to post by ObviousTroll
I'm going to take those remarks as expressions of your sentiments. The mission statement from

Jews for Judaism was established in 1983. It has become the Jewish community's leading response to the multi-million dollar efforts of cults and evangelical Christians who target Jews for conversion.

Jews for Judaism's preventative education is a catalyst that inspires the revitalization of the spiritual life of Jews and Judaism and at the same time inoculates the Jewish community from external influences.

That seems clear to me; Jewish Anti-Assimilation Movement. Would you agree then, that some Christians who imagine a Judeo-Christian religion are seriously deluding themselves?

Note: I don't know as much about anti-assimilation as I would like. It does seem to be a major factor in some people's thinking. I've only heard a few of the pros vs cons. I'll try to look into this further. Thank you.

Originally posted by SLAYER69

Originally posted by Expat888
Were born.. We live.. We die.. What matters is what we do with the time were here.. I prefer to spend mine helping those who need it and have done so.. If its my time to die then so be it thats life . Will move on to the next life in peace knowing I did what could to help others without taking the life of another human being.. And yes have at times been in situations like that due to helping others and am still around karma neh..

I myself have been in those situations as well....

So your assumption here is that becuase one would refuse to sit by and watch a loved one [Mother/Child/Wife] being murdered that they are incapable of helping others or living a just or honorable life? I've read many members here mention a similar stance while saying the same thing. I wonder how many of them are parents? From my experiences, very few parents would just sit and watch as someone murdered their child. Perspectives change with age, experiences and obligations.


From the earliest possible evidence in human history found thus far. There have been tools and weapons. Weapons for hunting as well as for defense. If the majority of humans had that attitude I highly doubt that we as a species would have made it this far IMO.

edit on 22-12-2010 by SLAYER69 because: (no reason given)

Am rather rusty on my english as only use it here anymore.. Will try explain further.. There are vast differences in thought/philosophy/action in eastern and western thinking .. Yes both have had wars and developed weapons in the past for survival , hunting etc. Both have had wars in past .. But overall in asia human life is valued more than in the west - most modern conflict in asia has been due to western meddling.. People here dont run around with the oh no the world is ending or the we want to rule the world and invade everyone mindsets.. People here will try to work out solutions to solve problems that dont involve violence.. Have seen many times after natural disasters people join together to help each other here - for example myanmar wouldnt let western aid in yet allowed groups from china, vietnam, thailand, singapore and malaysia in to help after they got hit by nargis.. Because the countries they allowed in went in to help only no mention was made of the myanmar government and its actions - whereas western countries were making demands of the myanmar government in "exchange" for aid.. Thus myanmar wouldnt let the western countries enter.. Things are done differently in asia.. People here plan ahead years rather than days/months as the west does.. Apologies to the op on sidetrack thread.. Hard to fully explain in english its a limited language.. Will try and write it out and pm further reply if thats allright as need to get my dictionary to look up some words.

Update:

JPost
Police believe attack was nationalistically motivated, but no terrorist groups have taken responsibility.

Police are maintaining a media blackout on the investigation on the stabbing of two women, one fatally, near Beit Shemesh on Saturday, though they said they believe the attack was nationalistically motivated and not a random act of violence.

No comments from US authorities. Media blackout. Rumblings from people in talkback section about the illegality of the women's activities(proselytizing).

I don't know what the exact laws are but: from Jewish Israel on February 18, 2010

Following an address at a church in Irvine California in which he thanked Christians for their support, Israel’s Ambassador to the United States, Michael Oren, granted an interview to journalist Dan Wooding and raised the red flag on proselytizing and messianic Christianity.

What the heck is the ambassador doing talking to Christian churches in the U.S. anyway? Just to say, "thank you for the money and the votes keeping pro-Israel politicians in office, but keep your religious views to yourself." That's my paraphrase, not a direct quote. Here's the direct quote:

But Oren actually said, “The Christian churches that are active and there are a great number of them -- have an agreement with the Israeli government that they can enjoy complete religious freedom, but that they should refrain from proselytizing.”

The concept of becoming a martyr for a god is ridiculous, nobody is going to walk up to your house and demand you renounce god with a gun, at least not very often, maybe a good time to start packing some heat? It is sad that the idea of being a martyr is seen as a good thing in some people, and the reality is blowing up a supermarket full of people (for the G man) will only leave you not around to deal with the repercussions. This only serves the purpose of influencing some political or personal agenda.

Let's agree that the actual scenario of having a gun pointed at you is quite different than typing on a computer, there is no way you can expect to get any honest answers from anyone about this on a forum. You would literally have to put a gun to their head, which could possibly be where the few people actually going door to door on this subject might be coming from. Maybe its best we just stop asking people about dying for god, some people will do it for practically nothing.

I'm picturing that little Microsoft paper clip popping up in someones head right before they let go the switch, *POP*.

Microsoft Paper Clip
I see you are trying to off yourself and a bunch of people, are you sure?

I wonder, have there been any instances of anyone failing to commit the act because they realized it was stupid?