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What does God add?

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posted on Dec, 23 2010 @ 11:04 AM
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reply to post by freedish
 


I'd like to let you know in the politest way possible that...well...I've tried what you've said. Repeatedly.

reply to post by oliveoil
 


Do I want eternal life? Hmm...that is actually a good, philosophical question. I'd say...probably not. I mean, I'd like a ridiculously long life. I'd love to see the universe unfold over a billion years. But to be an immortal...seems...empty. Meaningless. Where's the meaning in a life that continues to infinity isolated from being able to enact any real change upon the universe?

reply to post by truthiron
 


But that's the thing...I'm not missing anything. I don't have the booze or the random women, I'm quite a moderate drinker and I'm unequivocally monogamous. I find the only emptiness in my life is in my stomach sometimes, when I need to eat.

reply to post by Bigwhammy
 


Um...I'd disagree with most of your points on a more moderate level, but as for the last piece (which I've read previously):

Oh dear sweet Tiny Monkey Jesus. William Lane Craig? Seriously? The charlatan? The fraud? The liar? The man who doesn't change his arguments even when it's been demonstrated that they've been refuted? The man who is more concerned with debates than truth? The guy who starts his debates from a pure reason level...and then says the greatest proof of a deity is personal experience?

He's a self-contradictory fool. And honestly, none of that is name calling. I just don't want to derail this thread with the pages of refutation that would be required for his bile.

reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact
 



Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
Now, I hear from quite a few Christians


ok lets back up here.. do you mean Theist ? because that covers alot of ground...


I live in a nation that's 98% Roman Catholic, 2% 'other', everyone I know is more or less Christian. I know one Ba'hai girl, a single Hindu, two Muslims, a handful of atheists, and everyone else in this country is a Christian of some sort. ATS, on the other hand, is far more diverse a place. I want something from all views.



You may be being attacked (as you see it) by Christians because you are outrightly attacking them first... Just a thought.


You keep repeating this blatant lie, please show me where I've attacked Christians.



Agnostics are way cooler, they have much grace and maturity to respect all including themselves.


You don't seem to have understood my previous explanations of how atheism and agnosticism aren't mutually exclusive terms, I will not continue with that.

However, I will say this:
You have repeatedly defamed my character, attempted to start unprovoked conflicts, spread outright bigotry against atheists, and now you're accusing me of attacking Christians? I'm sorry, but you might be addressing a mirror rather than myself.

reply to post by adjensen
 


This is more what I was looking for. This helps me understand your personal position and understanding creates harmony. Yay! Harmony! Tiny Monkey Jesus applauds you...it's a reference to a really badly made nativity scene I've seen. The attempt at making a halo looked more like a tail...

reply to post by beezwaxes
 


Answering a question with a question is very Socratic of you, I don't take offense I actually applaud it. Star for you.

Anyway, I do tend to. They tend to go on about something vague that's just 'missing', something I can just 'feel'...something I don't seem to experience myself.




posted on Dec, 23 2010 @ 12:06 PM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
I live in a nation that's 98% Roman Catholic, 2% 'other', everyone I know is more or less Christian. I know one Ba'hai girl, a single Hindu, two Muslims, a handful of atheists, and everyone else in this country is a Christian of some sort. ATS, on the other hand, is far more diverse a place. I want something from all views.


well you should be grateful to ATS being hosted an America where you may enjoy our freedom of speech... weather it be hate speech or other.

in fact I do not believe you and where you say you are form, obviously you are not truthful enough to even post it to your profile.

maybe you should move to UK ?



posted on Dec, 23 2010 @ 12:46 PM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

reply to post by adjensen
 


This is more what I was looking for. This helps me understand your personal position and understanding creates harmony. Yay! Harmony! Tiny Monkey Jesus applauds you...it's a reference to a really badly made nativity scene I've seen. The attempt at making a halo looked more like a tail...


Can't decide if that's a negative response or not, so I'll assume that it isn't, in the spirit of the season


Merry Christmas, Madness, to you and yours!



posted on Dec, 23 2010 @ 02:27 PM
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reply to post by adjensen
 


It is a positive. Tiny monkey Jesus has become a meme between myself and my friends. I was being entirely sincere. Your post helped me better understand the question I asked.

reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact
 



Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact
well you should be grateful to ATS being hosted an America where you may enjoy our freedom of speech...


Oh, we have relative freedom of speech. There's a level of censorship, but enforcement is an issue when we're in the EU and any censorship case can be taken up to the EU.



weather it be hate speech or other.


Yes, like the hate speech you routinely spew. Or are you implying that I'm responsible for propagating hate speech?



in fact I do not believe you and where you say you are form,


Well, nuts to you. I live in Malta. Towards the north. But we have a population of about 400,000 on a tiny landmass, so the geographic area is a bit..useless.



obviously you are not truthful enough to even post it to your profile.


Obviously. I mean, I put 'a pale blue dot', a reference to a beautiful monologue from Carl Sagan instead of my actual nation. I put a reference to something that is the ultimate humbling of humanity...and it's because I'm not truthful.

Ad hominem fail.



maybe you should move to UK ?


Eh, I'm planning on moving for my MA.



posted on Dec, 27 2010 @ 09:15 PM
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It's taken a long time for me to get around to answering this because the answer is so big and complex that there's no way I can tell all of it.

Combine that with the fact that I've no wish to change you in any way, Madness, or to convince you of anything, and the knowledge that you will be unable to believe anything I write about god, and I've been left with nothing to say.

However I realised there is one aspect I could perhaps convey.

In many ways my life has been blessed, I'm not complaining when I tell you I have been through hell and have had many dark times. But my childhood was more appalling than most people could imagine, and left permanent mental, emotional and physical scars. And much of my life since then has been very difficult.

My belief in god is not of an all-powerful deity standing above us all, judging us, punishing or showing mercy on his whim. As I explained in another thread, I believe we are god, having chosen these roles to play in a divine MMRPG we created for ourselves.

Believing this means I have never stopped to think "why me?"
Time has inevitably been lost in depression, grief and anguish, as events and the experiences of being so hated by those I should have been able to trust are relived, but in between I get on with life. Instead of hating or feeling victimised, my interpretation that I designed this scenario in order to learn and to grow from the experience leaves me with the determination to put every lesson, every bit of character I've developed, to good use.

My belief tells me it's important to have fun and really enjoy what life has to offer. It tells me that bitterness is wrong, because the people who abused me are part of myself as god. It tells me that this earth we live in is a special place we have brought into being to enjoy, and as a scenario for out adventures, and that it must be cared for. It tells me that each person, not to mention each animal and even each pebble, is also god, and should be cherished.

I have learnt that, no matter what is done to us, no injury scars us like the bitterness we let ourselves harbour later. Any belief which does no harm and which enables this bitterness to be avoided, is of benefit to a person who has been through great trauma.



posted on Dec, 29 2010 @ 11:14 AM
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Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

reply to post by Bigwhammy
 


Um...I'd disagree with most of your points on a more moderate level, but as for the last piece (which I've read previously):

Oh dear sweet Tiny Monkey Jesus. William Lane Craig? Seriously? The charlatan? The fraud? The liar? The man who doesn't change his arguments even when it's been demonstrated that they've been refuted? The man who is more concerned with debates than truth? The guy who starts his debates from a pure reason level...and then says the greatest proof of a deity is personal experience?

He's a self-contradictory fool. And honestly, none of that is name calling. I just don't want to derail this thread with the pages of refutation that would be required for his bile.



Let's see blasphemy, immature name calling, unsupported allegations, absolutely zero meaningful interaction with the arguments. You slander one of the top philosophical minds alive today and expect us to just take it on your own authority. Seems about par for the course for your ilk, Dawkins is afraid to debate him too. Atheism just can not hold up to scrutiny because it is logically incoherent.



The existence of God is more coherent than the alternative. It simply has greater explanatory value for the way things are. For example,in answer to questions like, “Why is there something rather than nothing?” or “How did everything come into existence?” we are left with two options. Either everything we see brought itself into being, or something outside all that we know to exist brought it all into being.

When we reduce everything to those two options, we see the problem of mechanism—how could something bring itself into being before it existed? Whatever the agent of creation, that agent would have to exist before it brought everything into being—but that begs the question of where the agent came from. Theism answers the conundrum by saying God existed before everything, and it was God that brought everything else into being.

I think that is why Bible is so emphatically clear on the nature of atheism (Ps. 14:1).



posted on Jan, 3 2011 @ 12:19 AM
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Belief in God adds meaning to existence. A universe created by God is a meaningful universe, with a point or goal for all existence.

If the universe is an accident, then there is no activity which is a waste of time, since all human activity is accidental and therefore irrelevant.



posted on Jan, 3 2011 @ 07:44 AM
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If you are feeling well, you can ask yourself or this verse is for you too:
Act 5:41 And they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name. Because talking about His Name and what He did for all human being becomes with a lot of anger by those who don't know Him.



posted on Jan, 3 2011 @ 08:14 AM
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reply to post by dr_strangecraft
 


That's an interesting way to put it. I don't know that I'm in complete agreement, at least with the totalistic perspective, but it's a nice way to sum up one of the issues. I think that even the most ardent atheist would agree that, if God (as described by most faiths) existed, he would certainly provide some universal sense of meaning, whether one agreed with it or not.

Whether biological, societal or religious, an external purpose is the only meaning that precedes and outlasts us, and, of those, only one true God could provide a meaning that is eternal, unchanging and absolute -- societies change what's right and wrong seemingly on a whim, biological needs change with evolution, polytheistic gods offer different directives from each other.

I suppose that the real argument is whether such fixed meaning is necessary, or even desirable, and the conclusion of that would be one answer to Madness' question, as it is certainly something that God, and only God, can add.



posted on Jan, 6 2011 @ 10:37 AM
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MIMS, is it correct you are in denial of things, that things you should see as bad you see as good? Don't let yourself go on here. Break the grudge. This might just be a slight development for the better.



posted on Jan, 6 2011 @ 02:40 PM
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reply to post by etherical waterwave
 


What sort of things do I see as good that I should see as bad? Science? Love? Compassion? Reason? Restraint? Tolerance? Hard work?

Care to be specific there?



posted on Jan, 6 2011 @ 06:57 PM
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reply to post by madnessinmysoul
 

Madness, I'm disappointed in you. You apparently lack the courtesy to even acknowledge a reply I put a lot of thought into.



posted on Jan, 7 2011 @ 06:12 AM
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reply to post by madnessinmysoul
 


I would go for compassion, change compassion into love. Things get straight that way. I have no clue.



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