British justice and torture: Should Shrien Dewani be handed over to SA?

On the 13th of November 2010 Shrien Dewani and his newlywed bride Anni were hijacked somewhere close to the black township of Guguletu on their SA honeymoon.
Anni was found the next day in the hijacked car, dead from a fatal bullet-wound.
Initial attention focused on SA as an unsafe tourist destination, and our high crime rate was blamed.

Subsequently, attention and suspicion grew concerning Anni's new husband, Shrien.
He was supposedly bankrupt, and despite their multi-millionaire status in Sweden and Britain, the Dewanis were allegedly riddled with debt.
Shrien (who left SA in a suspicious hurry) was subsequently charged in Britain, and extradition proceedings are underway.
To add wood to the fire, a German male-prostitute contacted Scotland Yard about his sex sessions with Shrien.

In what must be the quickest trial in SA history, the taxi driver (Zola Tongo) has already been found guilty and jailed in SA, possibly for 18-years. Shrien Dewani's guilt rests heavily on Tongo's verbal evidence so far.
www.digitaljournal.com...
SA police-boss Bheki Cele accused Shrien of being a "monkey" who tried to take our country for granted. This implies that he is already regarded as guilty.
www.tios.co.za...
The "monkey" slur rocked the country, and would have most likely gotten any white person fired.

However, rumors of torture abound.
Strange, the world cared about torture in SA under apartheid, but now they don't give a stuff.
As long as it's black on black torture there is no outcry on these allegations:
www.mg.co.za...
Two suspects claim to be tortured, and not much other "policing" expertise remains in SA.
Rumors that Shrien was involved in another murder were totally refuted.

I'm really torn on this: murderous husband, or a SA state cover-up of a brutal, regular variation on crime?
I might be wrong, but I doubt Britain will hand him over.

The 7th of December: Dewani case a landmark case in comparative British jurisprudence:


Driver sentenced after astounding testimony,
Truth?
Or can torture make people say anything?

The ANC consistently cheats (just recall the Caster Semenya case).
I'd advise a British trial.

Shrien and Anni Dewani's wedding videos.
Released this week
Supposedly shows how "in love" the couple were.
I guess this counters allegations that Anni was crying on the plane to SA, and that he treated her coldly:

I think this is an interesting subject that you raise.

As the initial Youtube clip that you posted would imply, this case has obviously made big news over here in the UK as well.


Normally, I think that the country that a British citizen may be deported to, to face justice, is taken into consideration ( especially by the suspect's defence lawyers ! ).

Certainly, if Dewani was wanted by, say, Zimbabwean authorities, then I think that the UK government would block any extradition, due to the well-documented human rights abuses of that country, supported by its judiciary.


However, where this gets interesting, as I think you've alluded to, is the potential diplomatic incident that may occur from the British government refusing to deport a suspect to South Africa, due to the potential of torture and kangaroo-court justice that he may face.

I'm not making a disparaging comment about the South African justice system; I'm just commenting on the conclusion that would be drawn from Britain's refusal to extradite a criminal suspect to SA.


This is why I think that it gets interesting: in Europe, South Africa is the ''darling of Africa'' - prestigiously holding the World Cup in the summer - and a ''beacon for democracy in Africa'' ( ok, I'm paraphrasing, but that is the sort of comment that occurs from Europeans, about South Africa ).


If the UK did refuse to extradite him for any reasons relating to potential torture or unfair trial, then that really would throw the cat amongst the pigeons, as it would highlight many problems in the Rainbow Nation.


All that being said, I hope those responsible for this poor woman's murder will be brought to justice, and I hope that they will have to eventually suffer for snuffing out Anni's life.

reply to post by Sherlock Holmes

You sum up the dilemma more cogently than I could.

It will truly be a land-mark decision either way.

I have a feeling that something will happen to exonerate Shrien, or sentiment will now be swayed that way.

I have an uneasy feeling that we will never really know the whole truth, and why that poor lady was murdered.

But hey, I've been wrong before.

Originally posted by halfoldman
You sum up the dilemma more cogently than I could.

Your kind words are appreciated, but not true, as you are a very eloquent writer.

Originally posted by halfoldman
It will truly be a land-mark decision either way.

I have a feeling that something will happen to exonerate Shrien, or sentiment will now be swayed that way.

I have an uneasy feeling that we will never really know the whole truth, and why that poor lady was murdered.

But hey, I've been wrong before.

I think that there will probably be quite a lot of ''behind the scenes'' negotiations between British and South African authorities, as well.

I saw another story where SA police were allegedly investigating a link between Dewani and the murder of a doctor in 2007. I'm not sure whether anything's come from that.

Of course, if he is considered a genuine suspect in this case, then he'll have to be extradited, but the British authorities may well ( unofficially ) put some conditions on that.


What I'm particularly astonished at, is the speed of the conviction of Zola Tongo ( as you mentioned in your OP ).

How can someone be arrested, charged, convicted and sentenced, 25 days after the crime was committed ?!


I would imagine that that wouldn't even be enough time for a lawyer to put their case together.

reply to post by Sherlock Holmes

Today they released more on her murder.
Apparently she was sedated (although no blood test proof), stabbed, and shot in the neck.
It's implied she was not sexually assaulted, although not stated clearly.
The SAP have tried to frame innocent people before.
(See the Inge Lotz case: www.mg.co.za...)
I just don't trust them.

The best units and expertise were lost under Mbeki.
Making people say stuff due to torture is not good policing.
Even if in this case they are right, a cloud of suspicion looms forever over the case.
Will he be extradited?
Possibly.
SA will play the race card, and of course he will be.

Oh how the plot does thicken.
On the 31st December 2010 it was reported that family and friends of Anni challenged Shrien in an open letter to return to SA to face the charges.
Meanwhile, Shrien was also cleared of a suspected murder connection to an Eastern Cape doctor.
www.newstime.co.za...
Today, the Sunday Times again made the case front-page news.
Anni sounded distressed in SA, and ominously informed her family that she had a "lot" to tell them after her unexpected honeymoon in SA.
This supports supposed airline staff testimony that she was ignored by Shrien, and very unhappy on the flight.
Meanwhile the Shrien-team claim that his chances of a fair trial in SA are slim.
SA police minister Bheki Cele vowed that Shrien will face the music in SA.

But, why can't he face trial in the UK?
Watch the ANC (who have ruined everything they've touched) throw their toys out of the cot if that is the decision.
Goodness gracious, you can't call incompetent people "incompetent" in the NWO!

Any semblance of Truth and Justice died in South Africa 30 years ago. Any government that tries to deal with SA and expects honesty is run by fools. The ANC will never succeed in any endeavor. They are, and always have been, Marxist thugs. Nothing less!
Zindo

Ooh, I'm so exited about this trial!
Which ever way it goes, somebody is going to be very, very, very unhappy.
I think for me it has less to do with the unfortunate murder itself, but the ANC mess will be under scrutiny for all to see!

Ooh, finally, the case hots up in Britain again.

The basic prosecuting premise is that Shrien was a bit of an over-protected idiot who was maybe gay, but certainly forced into an arranged marriage (under the threat of being disowned by his family if he refused).
Typically barbaric and undemocratic, intolerant practices from the non-Western cultures, but nevertheless.

At present they are debating post-apartheid South Africa's prison system.
How embarrassing to hear that he cannot be protected from rape, HIV and other abuses - and how sad for all those who thought the ANC would secure human rights.
Let the world hear!!!

I doubt they will hand him over.
It is inhumane.
His trial must be in Britain.
Or maybe they will, under very special conditions.
We don't want to embarrass our NWO "African angel government" now.

Well, here's the latest:
www.newkerala.com...

I guess we have a few inmates here eagerly anticipating Shriens arrival... Hehehe....

2nd

reply to post by Falcifer

Well I think he's truly in an extra-human situation.
Wheresoever he goes ...
The best they can do is throw him into four walls for ever.

Update - three days ago (10 August 2011) the British court ruled that Shrien would be extradited to SA!
He would not be held at the notorious Pollsmoor prison, but at a Goodwood facility, that was promised to be a "five-star" establishment.

The media here have been filled with reports of gang members who will make him a "wife".
If they want somebody they will get him, and he cannot be protected all the time, unless he is in constant isolation, which is basically the promise from SA. However, the scrutiny of the media will not protect him forever if he's found guilty, and becomes just another inmate serving a long sentence.
For now it seems we have an extradition treaty with the UK.

I think most people already think he is guilty as sin.
They have analyzed his body language and behavior in Britain, and experts say his constant exercising, designer clothes and smug facial expressions indicate that he has been faking depression and mental illness to avoid extradition.
It's pretty clear that he was too pathetic to come out to his family, and wanted a way to keep his inheritance while getting rid of his unfortunate bride.
Her sister now indicates that alarm bells started ringing when he constantly avoided sex with his bride on religious grounds (they first thought he was just a very good Hindu).
Anni later described him as a monster, and the way he could lie to her parents suggests he has a sociopathic personality.
Well, maybe he will find happiness as a "gangster-wife" in a SA prison.
No need to rent a prostitute called "The German Master" there.

Well, he had a personality that lacked empathy, and he probably would have killed someone eventually.
www.iol.co.za...
Things don't look good for Shrien, unless there's a new twist in the tale.
It's not the final decision yet, but it looks pretty certain that he will be extradited to be kept under conditions that are denied ordinary South Africans accused of similar crimes.