It Begins: Attorny General warns of threat from Radical Citizens

Originally posted by Solomons
reply to post by dialecticchaos77

 

They did not adhere to the ideals of communism, which you would know if you read Marx. But we are taking the topic off course, apologies to the OP.

edit on 21-12-2010 by Solomons because: (no reason given)

Spot on my friend.

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


Sorry, didn't notice it said UK under your avatar there! You give the U.S. a lot of credit, I'm humbled. Personally, I think we need to make our democracy A LOT stronger. Clearly congress has caught on that they'll make a lot more money representing corporations and lobbyists rather than average citizens, which has landed us in the mess we're in today.

reply to post by wheels


Great! Glad to hear you're ready and willing to take action. Just be careful hanging up signs; if you don't get permission to hang them, they may get torn down, but considering the nature of the signs, if you ask for permission, you may not get it!

Originally posted by T3hEn1337ened
reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

 

Sorry, didn't notice it said UK under your avatar there! You give the U.S. a lot of credit, I'm humbled. Personally, I think we need to make our democracy A LOT stronger. Clearly congress has caught on that they'll make a lot more money representing corporations and lobbyists rather than average citizens, which has landed us in the mess we're in today.

Well i hope my comments are ok, some americans get rather uppity when non americans comment on their country.

The US republic system is based of course on many English laws, we had a massive archive of laws before the settlers headed off to the new world, however the founding fathers took all of the good bits in our system and left a lot of the rubbish behind. Your political system is simply superior to ours, that's my opinion, your healthcare system is another matter.

But there are a few areas in both of our systems that have gone wrong and they're pretty much identical errors. We allowed private individuals and large corporations to fund politicians election campaigns, that's a hole that needs closing quickly, we allow politicians to have other jobs, these are often high paying jobs basically used as bribes. We allowed the rich to monopolise the political system, this is why most of the MP's in the UK and most of the senators and representatives in the USA are millionaires. And finally we didn't put systems into place that allow us to properly punish politicians for doing things wrong.

The government doesn't fear the people because they know that many of the public just don't have the will to fight in numbers.

reply to post by civilchallenger


Good post, another poster shortly after mentioned what are people actually doing about it? Someone else said, many on ATS have known about this for years, what are you doing about it?

Being outside of America there isn't a dam thing I can do about it, but what I find exceptionally poor is that everyone talks about it, yet not a lot are doing anything pro-active about it?

Sometimes you have to fight fire with fire - and by that comment I don't mean take your shot gun and blow s**t up, I mean where are the problems stemming from? I see them 2 fold, large companies and governments.

So:

1. Unite with other members/politicians etc who oppose government view. You don't have to agree, you just need to disagree with the government. Create another way/political party designed to meet a concensus to tackle the problems the current government has. Educate others, not force feed them, on the problems that have rotted current government to the core.

2. Research and identify all corporations aligned with the government, or heavily influencing government policy which puts their profits above the rights of the people. Then simple withdraw your financial support of their projects.

Double edged sword, kills government financial brokers and puts a big dent in government at the same time. There are enough people on this site who share similar views to build something. Get organised between yourselves. A true leader will rise, but everyone else needs to keep that leader in check, they aren't there to serve themselves, they are ultimately there to serve the people.

It's not hard, and the time spent discussing topics on here, could be better spent organising yourselves into true political opposition. There are many DECENT people out there who oppose what is happening, communicate through the web, your own publications, unite and come together but don't talk about how you knew this was happening years ago, just so when the time comes you can boast "told you so" - if you believe and know in your hearts what is happening, then do something about it. Work with the rules in place, peacefully working toward a new political movement that actually has YOUR peoples best interests is taken care of. _javascript:icon('')

okay why is this trending on here? you guys this has been happening for years nothing is new here

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


Here, here! Your comments are right on, in my opinion. I think some Americans get a little touchy when their country is being criticized, is all. After all, we've had it drilled into our brains that the U.S. is the best country in the world, and that it can't be improved, but I think we can see where those beliefs have gotten us.

Nationalism can be a dangerous thing when it's religiously drilled into people's brains. I had some teachers in high school who forced students to say the Pledge of Allegiance in homeroom; they would threaten to send people to the principal's office if they didn't.

reply to post by wisintel


The attack on the Free Internet, presented as rationale:

Awlaki is believed to be in Yemen, but thanks to the Internet, his reach is global, and his influence dangerous.

Authorities say his teachings and writings have been discovered on the computers of a number of radicals who have tried to carry out terror plots here in America. Holder said Awlaki is able to preach violence on al Qaeda websites, and reach new converts.

"The ability to go into your basement, turn on your computer, find a site that has this kind of hatred spewed ... they have an ability to take somebody who is perhaps just interested, perhaps just on the edge, and take them over to the other side," he said.

....As for Julian Assange and Wikileaks, Holder said "it's an ongoing investigation."

"What Wikileaks did, at the end of the day, was harmful to American security, put American agents and properties ... at risk ... and I think for arrogant and misguided reasons," he said.

There you have it, paraphrased:
"The Internet is dangerous and needs to be controlled."

Next, the official position, justifying continued "emergency measures" and un-Constitutional actions:

Holder said he still believes the "decision as to how people get prosecuted, where they get prosecuted, is an executive branch function. Even if those suspects are being held now at Guantanamo Bay. Holder said Congress should not be interfering with that.

Forget the Bill of Rights; forget the Constitution; the nation is in danger and protecting the nation requires destroying the essence of said nation: It's Constitution and Bill of Rights.


No person should be deprived of their life, liberty or property without due process.

reply to post by versus versus


They desperately do not want to know ! Like Jack Nicholson said once in a movie ( Truth , You can't take the truth ) or something to that effect . The NWO bunch knows it too! A description of a Domestic Terrorist went out to the police departments some time ago that called anyone who opposed Communism , illegal alien entering the US , gun owners , NWO or religious groups as possible Domestic Terrorist . They had to expunge it from the Internet . Also have you noticed that police departments are changing to black uniforms ? There is a reason for that . I'm sure that our blogs are being monitored and some of us might be on the red or blue list of FEMA's. Google < Operation Trojan Horse >

The entire White House, led by the Great One are stunned by the way the American People reacted to their policies, pushed through the Progressive Senate and House.

I'm telling you, the Tea Party people when they came out in force - that scared them.

Add this to the significant number of irate, ARMED, everyday citizens, passing loads of firearms access laws, laws against illegals, laws against Sharia-based law, laws permitting concealed carry, the recent Supreme Court rulings on firearms, and yes, they are scared.

The best life insurance policy Obama ever had was Joe Biden, then Nancy Pelosi, then Harry Reid.

A foursome of idiots.

They are seeing what's going on in Europe, and they know the difference between Europe and the US.

The US is heavily armed.

And pissed.

At them.

Originally posted by T3hEn1337ened
reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984

 

Here, here! Your comments are right on, in my opinion. I think some Americans get a little touchy when their country is being criticized, is all. After all, we've had it drilled into our brains that the U.S. is the best country in the world, and that it can't be improved, but I think we can see where those beliefs have gotten us.

Nationalism can be a dangerous thing when it's religiously drilled into people's brains. I had some teachers in high school who forced students to say the Pledge of Allegiance in homeroom; they would threaten to send people to the principal's office if they didn't.

The USA isn't alone in drilling it's citizens to think their country is the best one, although it does seem more open and accepted in your culture. Of course the famous quote from Oscar Wilde is "Patriotism is a virtue of the vicious" and he's quite correct. Patriotism or nationalism if you prefer is a good tool for making people do things they usually wouldn't or making terrible actions seem perfectly justified, every dictator in history has understood this concept and used it to great effect.

I have found nationalism leads to a mix of xenophobia, racism and general ill feelings in society. It's an idea propogated among some of the most violent groups in every country, whether it's the BNP and skinheads in the UK or the KKK in the US. The irony of the growing nationalist movement in the UK is that the government is using that among other things to take our freedoms. Every year they are slowly eroded.

I often think the way our liberties are taken away is like a river cutting through a mountain. If someone blew a channel in the mountain then everyone would notice, but the water slowly cutting it away is never given a second thought because the new generation doesn't realise what the mountain used to look like.

reply to post by wisintel


“What was uppermost on his mind, however, is the alarming rise in the number of Americans who are more than willing to attack and kill their fellow citizens”

Who, Where, When. Is what I’m asking. That statement is so out of context to what Eric holder is telling in the interviewer. These statements seem to come only from the media. I never heard or read anything else like this except from the media over and over again. In a statement like the one quoted above by the interviewer (media). The interviewer is grouping Awlaki type connected terrorists that are U.S citizens with ordinary everyday citizens of this country, (There is a difference). You would almost believe that your everyday U.S. Law abiding citizens are about to turn the country upside down. Eric holder did not state anything like that; the interviewer did. The interviewer does not draw line between terrorists and your average everyday citizen. The AG stated “radicalized terrorists.” The media stated “Americans who are more than willing to attack and kill their fellow citizens”
The AG is specific in this interview with answers, but the media is really twisting the questions in this interview, leading the readers and viewers to other assumptions. All in the name of ratings, this is called bad journalism.

These "radical citizens" do what they must to protect their rights. If you want to call me radical, so be it. Im an American

reply to post by Blitzkrieg2130


Eric holder is talking about real terrorists’ like the kind that train in terrorist’s camps, not your everyday U.S citizen. The interviewer is trying make you believe otherwise. Read the interview carefully.

Originally posted by wheels

Originally posted by cybertroy
Did you see this part?

"Awlaki is believed to be in Yemen, but thanks to the Internet, his reach is global, and his influence dangerous."

Hmm, let's just shut down this "terrorist." How do you suppose they might try to do that? Hmmm, the internet. I wonder if this terrorist truly exists.

ABC likes us to believe that terrorists are sprouting up everywhere. This report is a load of manure.

This article looks like it's taking aim at freedom fighters and calling them terrorists. They want to group us in along with the terrorists it seems.

Honestly, does anyone see a terrorist anywhere when they go home? When they are at work? When they are walking down the street? These terrorists largely don't exist, in my eyes. It's like "terrorism" will be used once again to strip away a freedom or two. The media is putting out paranoia, to try and create "terrorists" that don't really exist.

Troy

edit on 22-12-2010 by cybertroy because: What the heck was i posting. lol

Awlaki is the Fed's new go to guy. Any time a problem pops up, so does his name. I also wonder if he really exists, although this same fella allegedly dined at the Pentagon weeks after 9/11.

I do believe we are witnessing a shift in the Fed's focus. Once again, they are looking inward. Instead of bearded men in caves, they are trying to get us to fear an even more invisible boogeyman...."Be careful, a terrorist could be standing right NEXT to you. He could even be sleeping in the same BED!"

Pretty soon they'll be telling us not to leave the house.

Unfortunately, this is what the media is good at. Fear, fear, and more fear. Getting us to fear our own brothers, instead of the real people we should be wary of. The media is constantly exaggerating, and adding things to stories., or leaving things out, or perhaps outright lying. Here we are fearing the "terrorists," when it's the corrupt people in our government, the FDA, the FED, those guys are the real ones we need to watch out for. But, mainstream media doesn't hardly touch that stuff.

Troy

Originally posted by wisintel

...What was uppermost on his mind, however, is the alarming rise in the number of Americans who are more than willing to attack and kill their fellow citizens. "It is one of the things that keeps me up at night," Holder said.

"You didn't worry about this even two years ago -- about individuals, about Americans, to the extent that we now do. And -- that is of -- of great concern."

abcnews.go.com... show=GMA

This is actually healthy. The federal government should be afraid of citizens. Citizens created government, and we have the right to throw it off our backs if we choose to. "When a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security." - Declaration of Independence

What needs to change, is that we citizens are now overly afraid of the increasingly over-reaching, over-controlling, intrusive and despotic government spawned from internal career bureaucrats and temporary but extremist elected officials.

Having re-read the Declaration of Independence, I found references to states rights in the last paragraph particularly interesting:

We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these united Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States, that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. — And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor.

Let's see how it reads if we remove the colony references to update it, and replace British Crown with Federal Government:

We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People, solemnly publish and declare, That these united and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States, that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the Federal Government, and that all political connection between them and the Federal Government, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. — And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor.

Pity our representatives in Congress don't represent the will of the citizens. They're now referring to the government when they state 'the people', in Orwellian-speak.

Originally posted by kennylee
Eric Holder and TPTB are just plain stupid. The Citizens are not turning on each other but on a tyrannical government. If he is worried so much about the Citizens, then one way for them to resolve all this is for all of them to step down and resign. That would take care of the biggest part of the damn problem IMO....

Yup, and seek psychiatric help for his paranoid delusions...
He said himself this fear keeps him up at night. So he's sleep deprived to boot. He's just every which way to messed up, not fit to serve, and a potential menace to society.

It Begins: Countdown to the Singularity. Everyone has a bit part in this analog~digital transformation. I think it began with the Total Lunar Eclipse December 21,2010. At this point, everyone should know the part they will play in 2011 and they will execute that program according to the awareness they have for Matrix equations. Just another glitch. What year is this??

Originally posted by starless and bible black
Holder...isn't he jewish?

If the nwo gets their one world government, in fact, then the jews will be in power, because they love power.

They really ought to know better.

I see the Jew hater Nazis showed up to this thread... Sigh! What the hell does being Jewish have to do with this? Nothing! There are people from all backgrounds in power oppressing the masses quit parroting Nazi/skinhead BS that has no basis in fact! I am sick of mentally challenged Nazis using these threads to spout the BS hate rhetoric!

reply to post by lapi7

Oh Please...I've been reading this "We're not going to take it" and "Patrick Henry" and "United we stand" BS for years now.
None of you so-called "Patriots" are going to do a damn thing except sit on your fat butts and spew your "Revolution" rhetoric on blog sites.

Yeah, right! So what have you and all of your so-called Patriot Militia been waiting for…Armageddon?

BUNK & BULL!!! Over the past decade I’ve seen perhaps millions of “Revolution, Militia, Patriot, Liberty, “We the People” TALKERS!!! You TALK & TALK & TALK & RANT & RANT & RANT on blog boards about “rising up” and “overcoming” and “revolution” and “taking down the elite” & “We the people will not be stopped” and "I'm with you...count me in" and "Yeah, RIGHT ON MAN!! We're locked and loaded and ready to bring down those corporate elite bastards!!!" …etc. BULL#, BULL# and more BULL#!!!

But never once have I seen ANY REAL ACTION from any of you so-called American Patriots!!! I don’t even see people “protesting” in the streets over much less horrid situations like we did in my day.

I understand this sentiment and feel this way sometimes too. However I don't think this is entirely correct. Here is why; First we must remember that that it took 20 years of talking and stirring up the American people before they were ready for the revolution back in the 1700's with men like Thomas Paine writings pamphlets like Common Sense and Samuel Adams Join or Die Slogan etc. So there has to be a lot of talk first.

Today the dynamics are much different. One thing patriots today do not have is a majority sentiment of the people needed to be successful. Even though only about 3% of Americans actually fought in the American Revolution there was are majority sentiment among the population in favor of independence. If Patriots militias moved against the government at this juncture it would divide the country bitterly and most likely the majority would still favor government mostly out of ignorance, apathy, and anger that their lifestyle was interrupted. So it is wise for militias mot to make their move yet.

So we are still in the information stage and the government recognizes that which is why they are moving in the direction of restricting communications especially the Internet. Also the government is much more sophisticated in its manipulation of the people today. When the colonies rose up King George just sent troops intending to crush any rebellion with shear force. The government knows that to do something like this today would only be throwing gas on the fire of revolt. So they are careful not to do anything to drastic all at once so as not to spark a nationwide revolt. Their MO is to keep things localized and use the media to paint whom they attack as whacko nut jobs etc.. They will continue to do this as it has worked well for them. this is also why they are smearing patriot groups now to justify when they might need to attack and abuse them.

There is always a possibility some militia somewhere would take up arms however the outcome would not be certain as I said above since the majority would most likely not support it. People are waking up so the information part is working and rhetoric like this thread is discussing is evidence of that. The thing is if we can get a majority sentiment we would likely not need to use force.

So I say keep flapping those gums on the Internet and blogs etc. it is having an effect on several levels. From hard core ready to fight patriots to entry level tea partier that have just barely realized something is seriously wrong even though they don't fully understand just how deep the rabbit hole goes. It may not be fast enough for most of us but eventually it will reach critical mass and effect great change if not in our lifetime then in our children's and grand children's!

Sorry for this OP. WOW! Looks like I stirred up a hornets nest mentioning the word communism. Some of you claim it was never implemented "correctly"; and that what's going on in this country has NOTHING to do with communism. Yet, the tactics some in our gov. are ramping up are EXACTLY the same as has been used by every commie regime. How does that work? Commies, fascists, socialists, corporatism.....They are all cut from the same cloth. I don't care what Marx wrote. Words are fantasy, actions are reality. So tell me how awesome communism is based on EVERY COMMUNIST NATIONS ACTIONS. Sorry mods, just returning the flack.