The Implausability of UFOs Being Alien in Nature

Originally posted by jeddun
Facts, of which there are many I'm sure, I'll cover here are just a few key points as to why i believe these UFOs are anything but alien.

1. DNA Abductee Acquisitions:
2. DNA Bovine Acquisitions:
3. Visitation:
4. Craft Lighting:
5. Power & Diplomacy:

However, if a group of interdimensional entities had been exiled to within our isolated neighbourhood...
...because of serious intergalactic violations...
...which included the corruption of humans...
...and the isolator wants to see it 'play out' to reveal the consequences of rebellion...
...then most of your primary points would make perfect sense.

"The Implausability of UFOs Being Alien in Nature"

The distances between Earth and other solar systems. That's the only fact that makes the alien visitation explanation for some UFOs tough to fully accept.

Originally posted by SpeDeZo
reply to post by jeddun

 

There is one thing that has always made me question Alien abductions and their credibility. Direct contact with alien and human should cause biological contamination, yet there has been no such evidence so far. Alien would possibly get some native human microorganisms and vice versa. One could argue that "Aliens" had removed all biological contaminants from their environment, but that sounds unlikely. These other theorise sound just unlikely.

Actually, I think this is a common misconception. In fact there is little or no reason why an alien being would become infected with a human disease, or vice versa. In fact, they could probably walk around naked and totally exposed, carrying every disease known to their species, and likewise we could do so on their homeworld, and cause little or no danger at all to the surrounding environment.

The reason is the same reason why humans are very rarely susceptible to the diseases of other species on our own planet. A lizard in the back yard might have a disease, but you can probably pick it up and handle it all you want without catching it, because you're not a lizard. (Although it might be carrying human-related diseases, so wash your hands. But that's not the point) A tree can have a fungus growth and you can still climb it without catching growths of your own. It's because diseases evolve in order to take advantage of a specific type of organism.

In a nutshell: An alien probably wouldn't catch human diseases because their biology is different from ours. Human diseases are designed to attack the human body and the human immune system. A different type of body would probably not be at risk. Now, there could be exceptions... some diseases are more universal than others. But fear of alien contamination is more of a cause for just-in-case, worst-case precautions than a realistic concern.

Originally posted by UFO Partisan
"The Implausability of UFOs Being Alien in Nature"

The distances between Earth and other solar systems. That's the only fact that makes the alien visitation explanation for some UFOs tough to fully accept.

Tough, but not impossible. We are barely scratching the surface in our understanding of the Universe. It is actually NON-scientific to say that traversing such distances (in a reasonable amount of time) is, and always will be, impossible.

reply to post by UFO Partisan


My reasons are that there is no evidence alien life exists in the universe, no evidence that if alien life exists it is intelligent, no evidence that if intelligent alien life exists it is sufficiently advanced enough for interstellar travel, no evidence that such aliens have ever visited earth...even in the ridiculously small time frame that humans have existed on it. But we know humans exist and that military black projects are a reality...again, much more probable ufo's are man made. Which as i said doesn't bother me, the technology must be extremely advanced and could change human civilization if released to the public.

reply to post by Blue Shift


Travel through time would require more energy than travelling from another star system.

Each time someone did it, more than the entire power output of the Sun, would be required. (Hyperspace- Dr. Kaku)

So that is even less plausible.

Originally posted by Solomons
Yes, while i believe in ufo's and by that i mean seemingly intelligently controlled objects that far surpass technology we 'know' of in terms of rate acceleration and maneuverability...that does not mean i think they are alien in nature, it is far more probable that they are man made. The technology must be astounding though and deserves to be made public.

edit on 21-12-2010 by Solomons because: (no reason given)

So what about the objects flying around before the 20th century?

Are they man made?

Originally posted by jeddun
How do i close a thread?

This isn't going where i expected it to..it's becoming an opinion driven discussion..and i should know better as all the users here aren't skeptics but believers...my bad.

Not to mention none of us are qualified to even discuss it academically..I just had a few points i thought someone could help me with.

And you know what? That's exactly what people have done, tried to help you. And now that the thread is not going your way, you want to close it. That's just too funny. NO ONE on here so far has come across as a "believer" such as Michael Horn or some of the other starry eyed wonders in this scene. The posters here have very well reasoned arguments. For the most part they are showing you your own misconceptions, faulty use of logic, and unwarranted belief in your own faulty conclusions.

I also wonder at your comment that none of us are qualified to discuss this academically. That's very presumptous on your part. That may be true for your part. Indeed, I don't see anything at all in your original post or your answers that shows you to be other than superficially familiar with the field. On the other hand several posters here have provided quite thoughtful answers to your points and even suggested further information for your reading pleasure.

My humble suggestion is that you ought to pass this test with a score of 90 or above before you presume to lecture the rest of us on the nature of UFOs. Thanks.

Originally posted by Solomons
reply to post by UFO Partisan

 

My reasons are that there is no evidence alien life exists in the universe, no evidence that if alien life exists it is intelligent, no evidence that if intelligent alien life exists it is sufficiently advanced enough for interstellar travel, no evidence that such aliens have ever visited earth...even in the ridiculously small time frame that humans have existed on it.

All fair enough. Just remember that there is also no reason to conclude that such alien life, or even its visitation, is an impossibility. If you want to call it an improbability and go from there, that's fair game for discussion, I think.

P.S. This also assumes you do not consider hoards of witness reports to be evidence. In science that is usually true... though ironically, in legal matters it's the opposite. Up to you I guess.

But we know humans exist and that military black projects are a reality...again, much more probable ufo's are man made. Which as i said doesn't bother me, the technology must be extremely advanced and could change human civilization if released to the public.

edit on 21-12-2010 by Solomons because: (no reason given)

I'm glad you are saying, "much more probable." This is the way to have an honest discussion. It's people who deal in absolutes that bug me.

Though I would add: Many of the more credible UFO sightings are reported to have taken place over heavily populated areas, witnessed by many people. Does this make the "black projects" argument less probable? I suppose it's possible they are trying to spy on somebody within that area... and just aren't doing a very good job of staying out of sight. That's about all I can think of.

How do i close a thread?

As the author, you can of course request we close the thread. I will do so if you like. You can either post here, or send me a U2U, and I will do so if you wish it.

reply to post by schuyler


That's actually an excellent quiz. Would be more quantifiable if not in an essay question format though.

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
Travel through time would require more energy than travelling from another star system.
Each time someone did it, more than the entire power output of the Sun, would be required. (Hyperspace- Dr. Kaku)
So that is even less plausible.

But you're talking about if we tried it with our current technology and what we currently understand about spacetime. Hey, our current understanding of spacetime is only about 100 years old. Before we start saying what is or isn't plausible, let's give ourselves another couple hundred years to refine those theories.

After all, even Einstein said that time was a matter of perception. I'm no super genius like that guy, but I get the impression that the more we learn about how our DNA interacts with spacetime on a quantum level to generate reality, the more we'll learn about how to modify space, time, perception and reality such that we'll be able to "be" (rather than "move") from one location to another without it requiring so much raw power. What DNA does is give us each a point-of-view. How about if we were able to somehow amplify and modify that point-of-view using technology?

It's difficult to imagine, because at the moment, we have a hard time incorporating things like point-of-view into our mathematical equations -- which shows the obvious limitations of mathematics in symbolically representing reality. But, like I say, it's proven that people are clever. That's a fact. So maybe they'll be able to figure it out someday.

reply to post by schuyler

My humble suggestion is that you ought to pass this test with a score of 90 or above before you presume to lecture the rest of us on the nature of UFOs. Thanks.

I was going to link that test from the UFO Watchdog site and hadn't realised that you authored it. It's a tough one.

www.ufowatchdog.com...

Originally posted by Blue Shift
But you're talking about if we tried it with our current technology and what we currently understand about spacetime. Hey, our current understanding of spacetime is only about 100 years old. Before we start saying what is or isn't plausible, let's give ourselves another couple hundred years to refine those theories.

This was my exact line of thinking as well when I read the quote.
Our perception of the universe can not be complete and final. There has to be much more to learn than we have even imagined. This includes methods of power. How archaic is wind and coal as methods of power, but only a few years ago (in relation to all of human history) that is how we humans were travelling. 100 years ago or so we graduated to petrolium as a means of travel. What will the next 100 or even 200 years see in regards to this.

I can still remember when I would have to come home from the store to call my friend to go out and play baseball on a rotary phone, but the children of my generation will not be able to imagine a world where they can not simpy text their friend along with a picture of their brand new baseball mitt and a video of them swinging their new bat which the friend will receive almost instantly.

I think it is incredibly naive to believe that we have even a fraction of an idea of what knowledge there is to be, whether it be otherworldy or trapped in the mind of a newborn being born at this moment, waiting for the right moment to emerge twenty years or so from now.

reply to post by jeddun

If ancient manuscripts are to be believed...
...a group of interdimensional entities given the task of looking after us...
...stole our soveriegnty, fornicated with our women...
...and manipulated our genetics and the genetics of our animals...
...to produce 'giants' and chimera hybrids...
...they were effectively culled by a deluge recorded in 600+ cultures...
...but started another breeding program again shortly after...
...same stuff is happening now.

Same entities now are mascquerading as aliens.

It's all in our oldest manuscripts if you take the time to look.

I find it very difficult to believe that a person can be standing on the coast of california one day, then the following day be standing in london.
Simply put, there is no way. I don't care how strong the wind is blowing, it would take weeks to make that trip! therefore, there is no such thing as tourists.

-some guy circa 1812


What we are arguing about the core problem with extraterrestrial visitations takes into account absolutely no technological progression beyond what we know today. It is blindingly arrogant and short sighted

Originally posted by MikeboydUS
reply to post by Blue Shift

 

Travel through time would require more energy than travelling from another star system.

True.

Each time someone did it, more than the entire power output of the Sun, would be required. (Hyperspace- Dr. Kaku)

True.

So that is even less plausible.

Why do you say that? They found an energy source more powerful than the sun coming from a 14 year old boy:

www.stealthskater.com...

He was strapped in a device called the "Montauk Chair", psychotronically linked to a computer, and sexually stimulated. In this inflamed state, his telepathic powers reached stunning heights. "The energy from my erection," Cameron explains today, quite solemnly, "was used as horsepower for the Chair."

Turned out, too, that the Montauk Chair could be used to cleave dimensional wormholes and space-time portals through which the Government sent agents on missions. Sexual excitement was key to its functioning.

Problem solved!

Except for the problem of how Cameron can say that with a straight face?

Originally posted by jeddun
Facts, of which there are many I'm sure, I'll cover here are just a few key points as to why i believe these UFOs are anything but alien.

1. DNA Abductee Acquisitions: Well, this is by and large the easiest to discredit. An interstellar capable race of superior intelligence would NOT need multiple DNA biopsies done repeatedly. As all Human DNA is 100% the same why would they need any more than 1 single sample??? Surely a race such as this is capable of replicating what they need from one single sample, no?

2. DNA Bovine Acquisitions: See above..a Cow's, a Cow's, a Cow.....they (Aliens) haven't figured this out yet? I submit that It's the gasses in the bellies of these animals splitting the flesh from expansion to reveal a clean 'surgical' line of cutting....and of course animal scavengers.

3. Visitation: It is HIGHLY implausible that of all the races i read about, from the Reptoids on down to the lowly Greys, and beyond (i have read COUNTLESS different species descriptions in books and media from over the years) would all adapt and adhere to the single Mandate of 'hiding' from the Human species/world population. This just makes no sense to me, and surprisingly I've never read anyone else even mention this as It's so simple. Why would every race of Alien, from God knows where, with no connection to one another even in the Political sense, stick to the same process? Like clockwork, from reading accounts of witnesses, it would appear they are all on the same page, following the same orders of "staying out of the public eye".....strange.

4. Craft Lighting: Ok, why in Hell would any race of beings, hiding from the public, even run a single light aboard these craft? Surely they have a HUD screen where they can see anything they wish, including star system charts (reports over the years describe just this)...so why the anti-collision lights? Do they really expect to 'run into' an earthly craft whilst flying? Surely not as we've already outlined the absolute technological wonders they are capable of...so why something so SO simple as anti-collision lights???

5. Power & Diplomacy: Any race able to transverse the interstellar muck MUST have a process of Diplomacy, why is it SO hard for them to approach even one of us in power to exalt their desire to reach out to us? What are they waiting for? With their technology surely they are masters of energy and war (even a peaceful race is able to defend it's home and border).....so why so tentative with the Human race? To say "Oh they know we aren't ready" is preposterous and self-aggrandizing...only Humans think Humans are special. Especially hen this is mentioned in the same breath as "Oh the Human Earth race is unlike any other..so they are taking their time"...LOL the only place this way of thinking works is in the 3 top religions of the world.

Anyway...chew on that for a bit and once you get a clue you'll see that all these Alien craft are either mis identified natural occurrences OR Military.

Bonus: One of the oldest and most 'loved' stories by Alien believers is the Aurora Texas windmill crash in the late 1800s...proven a hoax!

Ummm.. Yeah.. No.

1. Everybody's DNA is different.. I am pretty sure I am not the same as my neighbour.

2. See above. Also, maybe there is something in cows that aliens like..?

3. Maybe they feel that we are inferior to them? So inferior that they don't need to make themselves known? When I see an anthill I don't go down and say "hi" to them, same thing really.

4. Perhaps they use light as their way of transportation? Also.. Space is dark. They need light... Simple as that.
Also, there is obviously more than one alien so maybe they need to see eachother..?

5. Again they probably see us as inferior to them.. Same as question 3

Originally posted by Solomons
reply to post by UFO Partisan

 

My reasons are that there is no evidence alien life exists in the universe, no evidence that if alien life exists it is intelligent, no evidence that if intelligent alien life exists it is sufficiently advanced enough for interstellar travel, no evidence that such aliens have ever visited earth...even in the ridiculously small time frame that humans have existed on it. But we know humans exist and that military black projects are a reality...again, much more probable ufo's are man made. Which as i said doesn't bother me, the technology must be extremely advanced and could change human civilization if released to the public.

edit on 21-12-2010 by Solomons because: (no reason given)

Just the fact that we've already found 500 planets orbiting around other stars is evidence. That's not proof of course but, as you mention, humans do exist and so do all sorts of other critters here. On a planet with an environment similar to Earth's, I don't think too many scientists would bet against some level of intelligent life forming.

As far as black projects are concerned, the line is getting a lot hazier. Not so long ago, breaking speed benchmarks was widely celebrated but when the benchmark was Mach 1 (760 mph or so) and a UFO was clocked at two or three or four times that speed by credible witness or radar, it makes you wonder. There's a reason people got so interested in all this in the first place.

reply to post by jeddun

I want some savory scientific discussion...otherwise it's ones opinion vs anothers.

As do I. Unfortunately, UFOlogy has fallen into insanity much like the majority of our society. People are using the wrong paradigm in trying to figure this out. One thing is for sure: aliens & UFOs are very likely related to bigfoot, NDE's (like ATS' own Kinglizard), reincarnation, and other events our culture views as "spirtual" or "supernatural."

"Science" began as individual observations... no one realizing for centuries that in fact magnetism and electricity were very related. Physicists are now trying to combine everything into a "theory of everything." I believe this is also the correct method in untangling the alien/UFO problem.

You are entitled to your opinion. However, your erroneous statement of 100% identical DNA makes me feel like you aren't as scientifically well read as you espouse to be. Such simple mistakes leave me little confidence in your ability to research a complex topic like aliens/UFOs....thus I left what I feel are good reading suggestions.

-SJ76