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What if the rapture is different than how it's portrayed in the 'Left Behind' series?

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posted on Dec, 21 2010 @ 11:49 AM
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To be honest i do not want to speculate. For me it´s a mystery, but if it happens will happens. Anyway here is some info about Rapture, that you might wanna look at it.


Taken from this Source. What is "The Rapture"

These ideas are popular with groups who are enchanted, even obsessed, with speculation about the Second Coming and who have convinced themselves that they see in current events signs that His return is near. These speculations form part of a broader ideology called “dispensationalism.” Dispensationalists come in all shapes and sizes and what we say about one may not apply to all. Still we can list some general characteristics which virtually all dispensationalists share. The name comes from their division of history into eras or “dispensations.” They believe that the Bible outlines the whole course of mankind’s religious history. Each stage in God’s program is a dispensation, and in each dispensation God relates to the world and His chosen peoples in a different way. Some dispensationalist schemes encompass all human history; others include only Christian history since the time of Christ. Most often these systems are based on a symbolic interpretation of the “letters to the seven churches” of Revelation 2 and 3, with each church standing for the Christianity of a particular period. (Since dispensationalism is Protestant in origin its “Church history” is strictly Western. The dispensations take into account almost nothing of Orthodox history after the period of the early councils which we share with the West.) The dispensational system includes the future as well as the past. Thus dispensationalism presents a detailed program of events leading up to the Second Coming. Two of the events in this master plan are the Rapture and the Great Tribulation.



Proponents of the doctrine of a pre-Tribulation Rapture claim that it rests on Scripture and has always been a part of Christian teaching. The truth is that it dates from about 1830 and was largely the creation of John Nelson Darby, a one-time Anglican priest and founder of a sect called the Plymouth Brethren. He contributed much to the dispensationalist scheme, and in particular he was the first to include the Rapture among the catalogue of phenomena of the last times. The Rapture’s recent origin is one of the things which should make us skeptical. Neither the Apostles nor the Fathers expounded any such teaching (nor, for that matter, did any of the notorious heretics of the past). Even Darby’s circle, although they claimed to find support for their teaching in the Bible, did not maintain that they had arrived at this doctrine through study of the Scriptures, but that they had received it through a revelation. According to its supporters the pre-Tribulation Rapture is an extremely important part of the Christian message. Yet it was unknown before 1830.



Let us summarize what we have found so far. St. Paul does speak of a sort of rapture, in the sense of a carrying up into the sky of the righteous at the time of the Second Coming. The Fathers generally agree on that. But St. Paul and the Fathers see this as an event which accompanies Christ’s return and immediately precedes the Judgment and the establishment of the Kingdom. The Rapture which Darby and Scofield taught and which Lindsey, Walvoord, and others still teach, is different from that. They talk about it as a separate happening, part of a decades long program of events leading up to Christ’s Coming. The dispensationalists see the Rapture as the disappearance of the faithful from the earth before the Great Tribulation and many years before the Judgment. This is foreign to the Apostle and to the Tradition. St. Paul mentions no period of affliction and persecution following the Rapture.


Hope that helps.

Peace




posted on Dec, 21 2010 @ 02:21 PM
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reply to post by Myrtales Instinct
 


So are there secrets in the bible? I would say yes. Being I ran across a couple of them. And I'll toss you one to prove it.

Oh and on that rapture thing it appears to happen at the time the 6th seal of Revelation is opened. If you look at Matthew 24 and Luke 21 they tell us that after the twin events of the "days of the gentiles" and that the gospel of the kingdom to come is presented to all the nations/ethnic groups of the world then the 2nd return of the son of man occurs. And if you compare the description of those events to the 6th seal of Revelation they appear to be similar. And I would point out that a countless number of people appear in heaven during the 6th seal as well. And how did all those people get there?

Raptured maybe?

But to get to the point I wanted to show is what Jesus Christ was talking about with the fig tree parables.

I actually worked this out in reverse order here. Several years ago I realized that the Jews of the first century AD had triggered a 2000 year top level Leviticus 26 curse. This is mainly described in the book of Hosea with the time being the verses of chap. 6 vs 1 and 2.

The days mentioned in verse 2 as being thousand year periods of time per Psalms 90-4 and 2nd Peter 3-8.

Then I figured out the cause of the curse. Book of Malachi Last verses of Chap 4.

Elijah the prophet was supposed to come first and prepare the way. But according to Matthew 17 John the Baptist was supposed to have been Elijah the prophet. Therefore his premature death triggered the curse of Malachi. And there is the history of the last 2000 years to look at to verify that claim.

Now if you understand the above then this statement Jesus Christ made makes sense.

Matthew 13
10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?
11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
12 For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath.
13 Therefore speak I to them in parables: because they seeing see not; and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand.
14 And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
15 For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
16 But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear.

Those under a Leviticus 26 curse are not supposed to understand it. And who are those under said curse? Per Genesis 48 and 49 by now just about everyone out there.

So now how does all this apply to the fig tree parables? Well, looking at the gospels of the 1st 4 books of the new testament it appears that there was a larger story to it that was lost. But if you consolidate the mentions of the fig tree parable you can work out the story.

To start with there is the cursed fig tree of Matthew 21 and Mark 11. And a different story of the fig tree in Luke 13. And the mention of the fig tree in Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21.

So now if you combine the stories you have what? A story about a fig tree that was cursed. Yet it was going to be given another chance in the future. And there is the stories of what happens in the later time when the fig tree is given that chance to redeem itself.

So now what do you do with this information? You use the "let the bible decipher the bible method" on it. Meaning when you run into a difficult subject you look for other passages in the bible to explain the problem.

So to start with we have a cursed fig tree. And what stands out there is the term curse. Curses have a specific meaning to them in Judaism. And to find that information you need to look at Leviticus 26. And what you find there is that curses apply to people and their nation. So then the question becomes is the fig tree a people or nation. So looking for a curse that would cover the situation you come across the curse in Hosea. And the reason for the curse in Malachi. And looking at the Luke 21 fig tree parable you realize that he is talking about a forest or orchard of trees. Which makes no sense until you think of the prophecy of Genesis 48 and 49.

Israel is supposed to be a multitude of nations by the end times.

And now you understand the fig tree parables. And there are hidden secrets in the bible.



posted on Dec, 21 2010 @ 06:37 PM
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reply to post by ntech
 
ntech,

Reading your reply to Myrtales you indicated possibly the time of a rapture, well the sixth seal is the end of things here on earth which would be the time He comes the second time to gather His own. The seventh seal isn't taken off until in Heaven. Read Re. 20:12, the book of life and that is the book or scroll that has the seven seals. It was written on the front and backside so as each seal is removed some things are revealed but until the last one is off what is inside is not seen. It is revealed Re. 8:1 there is silence in Heaven for a half hour when it is.

Thought you might be edified to see that.

Truthiron.



posted on Dec, 21 2010 @ 06:50 PM
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Originally posted by truthiron
reply to post by ntech
 
ntech,

Reading your reply to Myrtales you indicated possibly the time of a rapture, well the sixth seal is the end of things here on earth which would be the time He comes the second time to gather His own. The seventh seal isn't taken off until in Heaven. Read Re. 20:12, the book of life and that is the book or scroll that has the seven seals. It was written on the front and backside so as each seal is removed some things are revealed but until the last one is off what is inside is not seen. It is revealed Re. 8:1 there is silence in Heaven for a half hour when it is.

Thought you might be edified to see that.

Truthiron.

What does that half-hour silence portend do you think?




posted on Dec, 21 2010 @ 07:53 PM
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reply to post by The GUT
 
The GUT,

I see it probably as literal as God is able to show us a lifetime of things in a flash of time. I believe it is a time of absolute awe of the foreknowledge of the Lamb as it's his book slain from the foundation of the world. I find it is to prove that He did not predestinate anyone as this is the reason it had never been seen what is inside until the sin problem is completed. Then all redeemed men and all angels see all chose their own course and confess so. It is the book referred to here and other places - KJV Luke 10:20 is another.

Ps 69:28 Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous.

It is more or less obvious that is what the Lambs book of life contains that has been sealed.

Truthiron.



posted on Dec, 21 2010 @ 10:18 PM
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reply to post by adjensen
 


Saying 49 is taught by Rabbis in one of the branches of Kabbalah known as Lurianic. The teaching is that the soul pre-existed and will eventually be re-united to the source (God).

Of course Jesus being Jewish would have been well aquainted with mystery teachings, such as the Merkabah. What I find so very interesting is that Jesus knew that he is the "Son of Man" and most of the mystery teachings carry the same theme.

Consider that Jesus said the Son of Man, in his day, will be like the lightning that flashes from east to west in the sky. Ironically kabbalah teaches that on the "tree of life" there is what is called the "lightning flash", which is associated with the power of "creation." The goal of the kabbalist is to unite the feminine aspects of God (left side of body) to the masculine aspects of God (right side of the body). This union between the Shekhinah and Tiferet just so happens to create...... the Son of Man.

In the Merkabah, they create what they term a vehicle of light that connects to the source (God). The prophet Ezekiel is where a lot of the knowledge of the Merkabah comes from. It is a vehicle made of four angels driven by one who has the likeness of the Son of Man. The four angels make up the four sides of the vehicle and each has a different face; one of a man, one of a lion, one of an ox and one of an eagle. Coincidently, these same living creatures are found in Revelation. The angel with the face of a man always faces east and looks up "at the likeness of a man" that drives the chariot and this man sits on a throne made of sapphire.

The goal of the Christian is the baptism of the Holy Spirit, the goal of the gnostic, the kabbalist and merkabist is that of union. It's really all the same, but packaged differently.

Like I said, Thomas is a testament to the Son of Man. Saying number 80, for myself, is like Jesus saying that the flesh counts for nothing and spirit is everything. Or just as Revelation has so much symbolism, so do some of Thomas' sayings. The world represents physical birth and things that die, but when a person comes to know the power of God and how he creates this Son of Man inside of them - then they can understand why Jesus said "I am from above (heaven/mind), you are from below (world/womb).

Even the alchemist states, "as above, so below." Physical union between man and woman produces...... ecstasy. Spiritual union of a divine nature produces..... ecstacy.Lol

And both produce children. One a child - one a man child.

It's all about knowing and what it means to know. Adam "knew" his wife. The hebrew word for "knew" is yada. It means to know intimately. In greek, the word is ginosko (Jesus will tell them, I never knew you).

To whoever it was that asked about the silence in heaven that lasts for about thirty minutes. There are some who believe (and I'm one) that this silence is what happens when a person is baptized by the Holy Spirit The prophet Daniel says that while in the presence he fell like a dead man, like he was in a sleep until he was touched and given strength. We do know that the silence is equated with the mystery of God being "finished" and an angel being highly upset about a delay that is taking place. It is what makes sense.




edit on 21-12-2010 by Myrtales Instinct because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 22 2010 @ 02:15 AM
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reply to post by The GUT
 


The half hour of silence in heaven eh? I know this. So here is the answer. After looking at the prophesies I realized that the portion of Daniel dealing with the wicked one of Daniel 7 and 8 was never fulfilled. The prophesies of Daniel 11 are supposed to happen at the time of the end. And looking at it I realized that Revelation is a companion prophecy to Daniel 11. It creates the timeline and the trick is to associate the events of Revelation to the proper event in Daniel.

The first seal refers to the attack on the realm of Greece. That would be the US on 9-11-2001.
The second seal refers to the counter attack by the ruler of Greece back at Persia. And he conquers two kings/nations before conquering Persia.
The third seal actually refers to the black horseman of Zechariah. The builder of the Jewish temple was found/chosen.
The fourth seal refers to the evil one of Daniel. He was chosen though if he knows it I'm not sure at the moment.
The 5th seal was opened in Feb of 2002 and we have been in the short season since.
The 6th seal will be opened in a couple of years. Probably no later than 2018. Could be sooner though. The event that corresponds to that is Daniel 11-4 / 8-20. When the realm of Greece is destroyed. And comes back as the 4 republics.

The 7th seal will open shortly thereafter and there will be approximately 5 to 7 years before the first trumpet is sounded. When the temple is defiled as mentioned in Daniel 11-31. And the trumpets, the thunders, and the bowl judgments happen during those 3.5 years. Matthew 24-15 through 22 tells me that.

Should be over with by 2028 at the latest. But could end as early as 2021. You'll have to watch for that 7 year agreement to happen.

BTW you realize I just told you where to find the body didn't you? Or should I say the proper interpretation was the carcass? Look at Matthew 24-28 and then read Daniel 8. You'll figure it out.



posted on Dec, 22 2010 @ 08:14 AM
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Originally posted by Myrtales Instinct
reply to post by adjensen
 


Saying 49 is taught by Rabbis in one of the branches of Kabbalah known as Lurianic. The teaching is that the soul pre-existed and will eventually be re-united to the source (God).


Meh. It's likely my deep seated sense of Sola Scriptura, but I have always viewed "mystery religions", even "mystery" aspects of known religions, with a great deal of skepticism. What we need to build a relationship to God is laid out in the Bible for Christians, the Law for Jews and the Quran for Muslims. Going beyond that to "secret knowledge" caters to those who wish to be (or appear) clever, and opens the door to manipulation of faith by others, who are perceived or represent themselves as being enlightened.

There's enough of that happening in mainstream religion, to which one can point back to actual scripture to refute, so I see little value in jumping into a faith that is without basis at all, beyond what someone tells you the "truth" happens to be. Doesn't matter if it's their own insights, in 2010, or mystical Gnosis, handed down from whoever invented it 2,000 years ago.

Sola Scriptura. By Scripture alone. If you trust in the words of Jesus, in fact, all you need is Luke 10:25-37. From his very mouth, do those two things, and you're golden.



posted on Dec, 22 2010 @ 11:02 AM
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reply to post by adjensen
 


Well, I agree. It's all about a personal relationship with God, through the Son.

I just find it all too easy, since my Spirit baptism to see what others are trying to achieve and taking note of the parallels.

Repenting opens all doors.



posted on Dec, 25 2010 @ 10:33 PM
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Originally posted by ntech
reply to post by Myrtales Instinct

Israel is supposed to be a multitude of nations by the end times.

And now you understand the fig tree parables. And there are hidden secrets in the bible.



Hey that makes sense. And I also think of the Olive tree when Jesus says that we will know when He is close to coming back it's branches will grow. It makes me think of Israel spreading to other nations. I think I had that confirmed by the Holy Spirit.

It's interesting when Jesus spoke.he didn't just speak to the people of His time, he was speaking to all people in all times and He knew one verse would affect a person in the future differently than a person He was speaking to directly. And the cool thing is that He knew He was doing that while He was speaking.

Also I want to say that the Holy Spirit revealed to me the other night that as Christians we are no longer under curses. I used to get tied up in the O.T. curses and i'd always watch what I'd say and do as to not curse myself. The Lord finally spoke to me one night that Jesus became a curse for us! Isn't that terrific?



posted on Dec, 25 2010 @ 10:37 PM
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Originally posted by truthiron
reply to post by ntech
 
ntech,

Reading your reply to Myrtales you indicated possibly the time of a rapture, well the sixth seal is the end of things here on earth which would be the time He comes the second time to gather His own. The seventh seal isn't taken off until in Heaven. Read Re. 20:12, the book of life and that is the book or scroll that has the seven seals. It was written on the front and backside so as each seal is removed some things are revealed but until the last one is off what is inside is not seen. It is revealed Re. 8:1 there is silence in Heaven for a half hour when it is.

Thought you might be edified to see that.

Truthiron.



wow i never realized that (missed the forest by looking at the trees type thing)....there is a scroll that is being opened...the seals are just the beginning. Obviously what's in the scroll is WAY WAY WAY more important!!! I can only imagine what God has inside there. Maybe He will be merciful in some way? Very interesting sir!



posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 01:56 AM
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I'm sorry, .... but as an ex christian, I can confidently say......


You guys are all wasting your time. there is no rapture, the book of revelations occured nearly two thousand years ago.

You might as well be trying to interpret Sarah Palin's coloring book.

The bible only holds back your true spiritual potential, yet my words will fall on deaf ears, ... and my words are best off saved.



posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 01:21 PM
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reply to post by freedish
 
freedish,

Yes our God and Saviour is very merciful and all will bow the knee one day and confess that of their own free will without pressure.

I came to realize many years ago in a study class that the one heading the class that day wanted to present the idea the book or scroll was the book the recording angels were writting and immediatly I saw that couldn't be true as how could a book be written into if it is sealed. I then told them the only book, scroll it could be would have to be the Lambs book, scroll of life slain from the foundation of the earth. That made me very unpopular but some came after the study and agreed it had to be the case. Quite a few hierarchy of a church where there and didn't agree but didn't have any answer. The class leader that day was one of them.

"wow i never realized that (missed the forest by looking at the trees type thing)....there is a scroll that is being opened...the seals are just the beginning. Obviously what's in the scroll is WAY WAY WAY more important!!! I can only imagine what God has inside there. Maybe He will be merciful in some way? Very interesting sir!"

We are all learners and each of us must remain teachable, includes all teachers and pastors and etc. His Word will open up more almost everyday only as we recieve the light given before His Spirit takes us deeper.

Prove all things before we assimilate them to ourselves.

Truthiron.



posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 01:25 PM
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reply to post by truthiron
 


I was thinking...if there was something great inside the scroll the I don't think heaven would become silent for half an hour...that makes it seem like it something bad. Just a thought.



posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 02:36 PM
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reply to post by Titen-Sxull
 



What if there is no rapture at all?

It will not happen at all.
From a post I made awhile ago...

The Rapture Doctrine


The Rapture doctrine, which was the invention of the Plymouth Brethren led by John Nelson Darby (1800-1882), has today been adopted by most Baptist, Pentecostals, Assemblies of God, and a variety of other fundamentalist sects. The idea that Jesus Christ will return for His true Church just before the beginning of the Great Tribulation in a secret gathering or "catching away" was an important part of Darby's teaching. The movement in which this teaching began originated in small groups in England and Ireland about 1828 and by 1831 was part of the official teaching of the Plymouth Brethren. By 1860 the "rapture" had made its way to the United States. In the late 1800's, America was fertile ground for a wide variety of religious extremists, most notably the Adventist movements. These movements, which produced new denominations, sects, and cults, almost always had as one of their chief tenets the belief that Christ was going to return to earth "very soon" and that they could tell you when. As the eschatological and apocalyptic teachings of the Plymouth Brethren entered this mix of religious fervor, some of their teachings became a permanent fixture within the newly formed sects. Among the many heresies of the "brethren" the Rapture was the most successful. It even went on to affect millions of people in denominations which had not yet been formed. Two examples of this are the Assemblies of God and the United Pentecostal Church which were not founded until early in the 20th century. At about this same time the Rapture made its way into the theology of the Southern Baptist Church, which had not previously known of the teaching. Today, prophecy pundits and "end-time" revivalists preach the Rapture as if it were established dogma from the time of Christ until the present. The truth is that the first historical reference to the Rapture doctrine comes from the Plymouth Brethren. Not only is the Rapture not found in the teachings of the Church, but even "end-time" heretics throughout the centuries never dreamed of proposing such a novel idea. For example, the 4th century Montanists, who preached both pre-millenialism and that they knew when Christ would return, never ventured so far as to create another 2nd coming of the Lord in a secret rapture.

www.onearthasinheaven.com...

As you can see, John Darby started this lie, and Christians today still believe it as truth.

What will happen, IMHO, is a cosmic event that will kill every living soul in an instant, just like that, in the blink of an eye, we will all be in Spirit form. People will be afraid, and will do everything trying to kill themselves, especially Christians, when they suddenly discover that all they have believed is a lie, and no one is coming to save them. There will be monsters, created from human though-forms, there will be the dead, and all will be afraid. This is when the Reptilians will make their move on us. They want the energy of our Souls for their own. Christians should have no problem with this, they have been giving these creatures their energy for many years now, in the form of worship. My advice? Take your power unto yourself and go forth, and create. That is your true purpose, friend.



posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 02:41 PM
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reply to post by VeniVidi
 




"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life" John 3.16........


We all have eternal life anyway, the Spirit of man/womankind is composed of Pure, Divine Energy, and cannot ever be destroyed, ever. We are all immortal, and Christianity does not have a lock on it.

First law of thermodynamics:
Energy can be neither created nor destroyed. It can only change forms.
In any process in an isolated system, the total energy remains the same.

Can you refute the First law of thermodynamics using the Bible?
Short answer: NO!



posted on Dec, 26 2010 @ 02:45 PM
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reply to post by freedish
 
freedish,

Nothing bad for all to see that are redeemed. Their names are all written there as the old song I've heard "is my name witten there on the page white and fair" and still may be sang by some. It reveals the foreknowledge of the Lamb and at the same time understand and know well without any doubt they did their own will always and were not predestined. All saved or lost know and acknowledge that.

That's enough to silence all for awhile is it not?

Truthiron



posted on Jan, 1 2011 @ 09:57 PM
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reply to post by freedish
 


Hmmmm - interesting concept and one that makes sense. A look at the way the great systems of the planet and universe function (based on what we know of them) shows (to me) a God of order. He would have no need of the physical bodies nor would raptured - so why take them?



posted on Jan, 2 2011 @ 11:02 AM
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reply to post by freedish
 
freedish,

Getting your thread back on the subject of the ones "left" it isn't the body of the one taken the text refers to. Luke is the read that clears it up.-- KJV -

Lu 17:35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Lu 17:36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
Lu 17:37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

The text infers the "other" one not taken is left and aparently dead since the eagles gather there. It appears then this can not be a pre tribulation "rapture".

Many do believe in a pre trib. rapture but I guess I am not of that persuasion.

It looks like we are to have a change of our now present vile body according to this verse. -

Php 3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

Our old body my be taken and we will know each other we have known in life?

Truthiron.



posted on Jan, 2 2011 @ 11:33 AM
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I do not believe in the rapture, like the catholic church does not.

Enough said.




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