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What if the rapture is different than how it's portrayed in the 'Left Behind' series?

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posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 09:13 PM
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What if the rapture is actually the instant death of millions and millions of Christians?
Think about it...two men are in the field and one is taken, and the other left, could God mean ones spirit is taken?
I mean why would God need to take our bodies anyways? They are corrupted by sin.
And where does it say in the bible that our bodies will go with us to Heaven? It doesn't!
Instead, we get new heavenly bodies that are uncorrupted by sin.
...So wouldn't it make sense that when we are raptured our earthly bodies would stay on Earth and die?

Also a scary thought is thinking how the world would perceive this event...
If millions of Christians suddenly died...there would be utter chaos...
The media might say that there's something in the water, or food supply, heck they might even say it's a UFO attack, they will try to hide the truth.
This idea seems more logical to me then people disappearing...but hey I could be wrong


BTW I hope & pray the lunar eclipse tonight is a sign for the second coming!

acts 2:19 " I WILL GRANT WONDERS IN THE SKY ABOVE AND SIGNS ON THE EARTH BELOW, BLOOD, AND FIRE, AND VAPOR OF SMOKE. THE SUN WILL BE TURNED INTO DARKNESS AND THE MOON INTO BLOOD,, BEFORE THE GREAT AND GLORIOUS DAY OF THE LORD SHALL COME.
joel 2:31 "i will display wonders in the sky and on the earth, ...the sun will be turned to darkness, and the moon into blood."
rev 6:12 "I looked when He broke the sixth seal, and there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth made of hair, and the whole moon became like blood;"


edit on 20-12-2010 by freedish because: God is great!

edit on 20-12-2010 by freedish because: God is great!

edit on 20-12-2010 by freedish because: God is great!

edit on 20-12-2010 by freedish because: (no reason given)

edit on 20-12-2010 by freedish because: (no reason given)

edit on 20-12-2010 by freedish because: (no reason given)

edit on 20-12-2010 by freedish because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 09:23 PM
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reply to post by freedish
 


The jury is still out for me as to whether there is a pre-trib rapture or not, but that's a brilliant hypothesis. It would totally play into an occultic NWO plan!



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 09:32 PM
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reply to post by freedish
 


What if there is no rapture at all? The scripture is pretty vague about what the rapture is and when it will happen. The account in 1st Thessalonians sounds almost like there will be a zombie apocalypse with the dead in Christ rising (hopefully hungry for brains).

The rapture was one of the things I hated even as a Christian, it filled me with fear every waking moment and forced me to police my thoughts, which, as a teenager, were mostly about girls. I used to have horrific nightmares where my family was taken and I was left behind likely to burn in Hell or, if I was lucky, be beheaded by the beast. What a terrible belief to be filling people's minds with.



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 09:40 PM
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Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
reply to post by freedish
 


What if there is no rapture at all? The scripture is pretty vague about what the rapture is and when it will happen. The account in 1st Thessalonians sounds almost like there will be a zombie apocalypse with the dead in Christ rising (hopefully hungry for brains).

The rapture was one of the things I hated even as a Christian, it filled me with fear every waking moment and forced me to police my thoughts, which, as a teenager, were mostly about girls. I used to have horrific nightmares where my family was taken and I was left behind likely to burn in Hell or, if I was lucky, be beheaded by the beast. What a terrible belief to be filling people's minds with.


Why do you need to police your thoughts? Jesus has sent the holy spirit inside those who believe in Him. He literally changes who you are. I also have bad thoughts from time to time, but it doesn't mean I have to be paranoid about it. I know I am forgiven already. The relationship with Jesus is based on grace, not on keeping the law.



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 09:41 PM
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I do believe you are on to something.

Did you know, that the Gospel of Thomas, which I believe are Jesus' actual words, says that "two will be reclining on a couch one will live and one will die."

Also, after describing the coming of the Son of Man in Luke 17, the disciples ask him "Where" and he says 'where there is a dead body, there the vultures will gather."
edit on 20-12-2010 by Myrtales Instinct because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 10:03 PM
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Originally posted by Myrtales Instinct
I do believe you are on to something.

Did you know, that the Gospel of Thomas, which I believe are Jesus' actual words, says that "two will be reclining on a couch one will live and one will die."

Also, after decribing the coming of the Son of Man in Luke 17, the disciples ask him "Where" and he says 'where there is a dead body, there the vultures will gather."


Thank you but I did not figure this out on my own. The Holy Spirit revealed this to me.



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 10:05 PM
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reply to post by freedish
 


Than you came from a far gentler Christianity than I did. I was raised a fundamentalist. It was generally held that after you committed a sin you had to ask for forgiveness if you wanted to get into Heaven and any thought about lust/sex, according to Christ, was sinful. As a teenager its pretty difficult not to think about sex, not to swear, not to pal around with friends while telling dirty jokes, all of which I deemed as putting my soul in danger. This created massive guilt issues, and being reinforced every Sunday with stuff like "Jesus could be back at any moment, is your heart ready? Do you have any sins you haven't repented of? You better get to this altar or Jesus will leave you behind"

As for the Holy Spirit I didn't start speaking in tongues until I was about 16 and most of my angst about the rapture was prior to that.

I'm an atheist now so I don't worry about it at all but I look back on the fear they used to try to whip us into line with utter disgust.



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 10:22 PM
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Originally posted by Myrtales Instinct
I do believe you are on to something.

Did you know, that the Gospel of Thomas, which I believe are Jesus' actual words, says that "two will be reclining on a couch one will live and one will die."

Also, after decribing the coming of the Son of Man in Luke 17, the disciples ask him "Where" and he says 'where there is a dead body, there the vultures will gather."


The Gospel of Thomas is a Gnostic work which is mostly things that Christ most certainly did not say, as they contradict the Bible.

For the OP, while I don't think much of the concept of Rapture, you may be on to something, though you likely will want to read up on Dispensationalism, as your theory is dependent on which aspect of that you believe.



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 10:26 PM
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reply to post by Titen-Sxull
 


It is this "fear" that you refer to that has cause a lot of otherwise good Christians to turn against religion. I have always been confused as to why the Bible was written in such a way that it can be interpreted and manipulated by different sects of the same religion. I personally do not know of any passage in the Bible that has not been interpreted differently from one sect or another. This is why there are so many branches of the same religion. Each have a different interpretation of the Bible. It is certainly the reason why I have given up on organized religion. Some claim that their way is the only way to heaven, and all others are destined to eternity in hell. Even hell has many different interpretations depending on which sect. you believe in. Catholics are Christians, but there are a lot of Christians that are convinced that the Catholic Church is the Anti-Christ. It just baffles me that God would create a religion, give us a book to guide us through that religion, and then punish us to hell because we don't know which interpretation by which Christian Organization is the true one. So I simply hold to this promise, "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life" John 3.16........

AND I BELIEVE....



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 10:31 PM
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Originally posted by VeniVidi
reply to post by Titen-Sxull
 


AND I BELIEVE....


VeniVedi...That's cool, I had no idea...Vici!



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 10:31 PM
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Originally posted by Titen-Sxull
reply to post by freedish
 


Than you came from a far gentler Christianity than I did. I was raised a fundamentalist. It was generally held that after you committed a sin you had to ask for forgiveness if you wanted to get into Heaven and any thought about lust/sex, according to Christ, was sinful. As a teenager its pretty difficult not to think about sex, not to swear, not to pal around with friends while telling dirty jokes, all of which I deemed as putting my soul in danger. This created massive guilt issues, and being reinforced every Sunday with stuff like "Jesus could be back at any moment, is your heart ready? Do you have any sins you haven't repented of? You better get to this altar or Jesus will leave you behind"

As for the Holy Spirit I didn't start speaking in tongues until I was about 16 and most of my angst about the rapture was prior to that.

I'm an atheist now so I don't worry about it at all but I look back on the fear they used to try to whip us into line with utter disgust.


I'm sorry you had to go through that man. People like to smear the gospel to make it fit into their own beliefs. God is who He is. Let me ask you something, have you ever read the bible all the way through? It's amazing how many things are accepted as 'common christian knowledge' that aren't even in the Bible at all. Like the seven deadly sins things, Jesus NEVER spoke about that. It's a catholic thing that the pope made up a while ago.
Also did you accept Jesus in your heart back then? If you did you will be saved regardless of whether or not you've been sinning and not asking for forgiveness. BTW Jesus's death was atonement for everyone's sin, so even your future sins are already forgiven.



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 11:01 PM
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reply to post by freedish
 


That's great! I wish more people would tell of the things being taught to them by the Holy Spirit. You are one of few who do on these boards and it's nice to see. Everything I say tends to fall on deaf ears.


edit on 20-12-2010 by Myrtales Instinct because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 11:05 PM
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reply to post by freedish
 




Let me ask you something, have you ever read the bible all the way through?


I made an effort to read through all of it in my late teens, I'd grown tired of being spoon-fed on Sundays and wanted to see if I could make sense of it on my own. I did skip over some stuff, mainly the genealogies, but eventually I did read the whole thing (aside from who begat who). Reading the Bible was probably the first big step on the road to atheism for me, it contradicts itself painfully often and paints God as an evil tyrant who resorts to horrific acts of genocide at the drop of a hat. I had been taught to consider the Bible the Word of God and as I read it I realized I wanted nothing to do with this sort of God or his "word" or any of his followers if I could help it.



Also did you accept Jesus in your heart back then?


Yeah, I was saved when I was eight or nine, then a few times as a teenager I did the whole re-dedication thing. It took me a great while to realize that warm fuzzy feelings while praying weren't really Jesus and were self-generated. It really became obvious when I started speaking in tongues because I found the most random things would set it off, a good song, a pretty girl, basically anything that hit me emotionally could cause me to start speaking in tongues. Glossolalia (speaking in tongues) is actually not exclusive to Christianity and really isn't supernatural at all, in fact I can still do it to this day despite the fact I've been an atheist for a year and was a pantheist for at least a year before that.

Really it was the inadequacy of the Bible and the lack of evidence for God that caused me to give up my belief. It was a very gradual process but it was one filled with a lot of soul searching, praying as well as a great deal of thinking and studying the Bible and other religions (I even went to a Mosque once).

Eventually I realized I had no good reason to believe there was a god of any kind.



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 11:20 PM
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reply to post by adjensen
 


Actually some scholars believe it is proof, that there was an actual Q source, that listed sayings. And just because the early church, said it's false doesn't mean that it is. If you read the entire thing, and know your bible fairly well, finding the sayings in the Old and New Testament are fairly easy. The main difference is that it doesn't tell his life in a chronological order like the first three canonical gospels do, but then again look at the Gospel of John and how it's so dramatically different.

Whether you believe me or not, that gospel is a testament to the Son of Man. I think people are put off because it starts out with Thomas declaring these are secret sayings that the living Jesus spoke. Nobody likes to think there are actual "secrets" but there are and even God acknowledges this in the Old Testament by saying "the secret things belong to the LORD but the things revealed belong to us and our children." Even parables are considered secret utterances hidden from the foundation of the world and not everyone will understand them.....

Thomas is no more gnostic than the Gospel of John.


edit on 20-12-2010 by Myrtales Instinct because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 11:24 PM
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I think some people are or have taken too much of the bible too literally.

I think it is a living book and things happen a some experience it in their lives on a personal level.

I also do not believe it is going to happen like the Left Behind series but that it happens to individuals similar to the way a revelation happens.

Rapture:

1. The state of being transported by a lofty emotion; ecstasy.
2. An expression of ecstatic feeling. Often used in the plural.
3. The transporting of a person from one place to another, especially to heaven.

as relating to everything, words have multiple meanings and multiple interpretations.

the bible is Metaphorical, it is Literal and it is Personal (personal meaning directed at individual)

"I was Baptized by John" = (personal, metaphorical and literal) I been thinking about this today...



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 11:32 PM
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reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact
 


I too think it's related to the ecstasy of the baptism of the Holy Spirit and that there will only be a second coming. The Catholics got this one right.
edit on 20-12-2010 by Myrtales Instinct because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 11:38 PM
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reply to post by Myrtales Instinct
 


but it's much easier to express this through imagery possibly which in turn makes one try to make sense of it, and thinking how the ancients must have viewed the world is where one must take on this mindset.

Heavy stuff none the less...
edit on 12/20/2010 by Cosmic.Artifact because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 21 2010 @ 08:20 AM
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Originally posted by Myrtales Instinct
If you read the entire thing, and know your bible fairly well, finding the sayings in the Old and New Testament are fairly easy. The main difference is that it doesn't tell his life in a chronological order like the first three canonical gospels do, but then again look at the Gospel of John and how it's so dramatically different.


Well, no, it's not the form that is the problem, it is the content. Jesus, John, Peter, the rest of the Apostles, and pretty much everyone who preceded Paul's preaching to the Gentiles, were Jewish. The majority of Gentiles in the region were Greek. Jewish faith and philosophy, derived from Torah and the teachings of God, was radically different than Greek views, derived from Platonic dualistic philosophy.

We can read in the letters of Paul and John early reactions and instructions regarding those Gentiles who attempted to "bring in" the Greek view of the nature of material and spirit, later manifesting itself in 2nd Century Christian Gnostic claims about Christ being the Divine Messenger and Bringer of Gnosis, rather than the accepted Christian belief.

Where Christ talks about "hidden knowledge", he is not referring to God hiding it from us, but us hiding it from ourselves. "Let him who has ears listen" is an admonishment that you're missing something because you're not paying attention, not because you need some "Master" to reveal it to you.

While one may view the Gospel of Thomas as a harmless collection of sayings, taking a more critical view of it, with an understanding of Gnostic Christian beliefs, reveals the underlying Greek flavour of the thing. It seems readily apparent that this is not a document which was contemporary or preceded the NT Gospels, but rather a compilation of restated quotes, intermingled with things that a Jewish Rabbi (let alone the Son of God) could not possibly say.

As an example, saying #49

Jesus said, "Congratulations to those who are alone and chosen, for you will find the kingdom. For you have come from it, and you will return there again."


represents clear Gnostic beliefs about where "we" came from -- ejected from the spiritual realm into the material world, and that those who receive the secret knowledge will be freed from these bodily prisons and return to the Realm of the Light. There is no Jewish counterpoint to this, so a Jewish teacher would not say it.

Or sayings #80 & #112

Jesus said, "Whoever has come to know the world has discovered the body, and whoever has discovered the body, of that one the world is not worthy."


Jesus said, "Damn the flesh that depends on the soul. Damn the soul that depends on the flesh."


These are good examples of words that are similar to Christ's teachings, but have been distorted to represent the Gnostic view of the dualistic nature of material and spirit.

The real problem that arises from the Gospel of Thomas and other "mystery" works is that they are inherently invalid. The document is composed in such a way that it is impossible to say what are the "real" sayings of Jesus and what has been added to support the philosophy of the author, with the result being that if you recognize any of it as invalid, you're forced to view the whole thing as invalid, and no new insights can be gained from it.



posted on Dec, 21 2010 @ 08:44 AM
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reply to post by freedish
 


Good for you for reasoning things out because it will NOT be like depicted in the Left Behind Series at all! You are exactly right as to our physical bodies being left behind. We (God willing, those who are found to be faithful at least) will be transformed in the twinkling of an eye into spiritual bodies that are not corrupted by sin. It will appear to those not Raptured that those who have been Raptured have simply died, as the bodies will remain. And the governments will attempt to mislead and confuse the masses as to the truth of what has occurred.

We are currently in the Tribulation and have been for several years. There is not much time left before the invasion of Yahweh's holy angelic forces at Armageddon. I encourage you to find truth via the links in my signature below.



posted on Dec, 21 2010 @ 11:03 AM
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reply to post by freedish
 
freedish,

There is no "rapture" that's a coined up word and no one is going to be taken out before the time of trouble. Many will be laid away and that is the only release. That stuff is a fallacy. They'll argue it hotly but they have not scripture that isn't taken out of context to show it let alone prove it.

When the Lord comes for His own He catches them up to meet Him in the clouds to ever be with him. The verses where one is taken and the other left, the question is, left how? It's not hard to figure out. When He comes and collects his own from the living and the dead ( resurrection # 1 ) it is over and they are left dead. Verses are KJV,

1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

The earth will then lay desolate and void for a thousand years as it was in the beginning and it will be torn and shattered and need creating again.


Jer 4:23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.
27 For thus hath the LORD said, The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end.

He doesn't make an utter end as it will be recreated after the thousand years and the Holy City will be brought down and placed on it at the second resurrection

This is a hotly debated subject and I may respond some additional info later.

I have a friend I worked with a lot of years and he believed the secret rapture was always soon to happen. Well he would not even buy a new car but kept renting or leasing one for 30 to 40 years and may still do. He thought it would be while he was driving probably and didn't want to have money tied up in a smasked up car etc. What foolishness.

We are to study to see if these things be true when they come up. The Lord commented.-

Mr 12:24 And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?

Truthiron.



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