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Feds want reporting for high-powered rifle sales

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posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 02:16 PM
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Feds want reporting for high-powered rifle sales


news.yahoo.com

WASHINGTON – The federal agency that monitors gun sales wants weapons dealers near the Mexican border to start reporting multiple sales of high-powered rifles, according to a notice published in the Federal Register.

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives has asked the White House budget office to approve an emergency request requiring border-area gun dealers to report the sales of two or more rifles to the same customer within a five-day period.

The emergency request, published Friday in the Federal Register, is likely to face stiff opposition from gun rights advocate
(visit the link for the full news article)




posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 02:16 PM
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It has started, the systematic destruction of the 2nd Amendment in America. The war is spilling over the United States from Mexico, and the government's answer is to report sales of high powered rifles? Where is the National Guard, the military in general? The police force?

We are in the middle of three wars, and yet the best we can do to protect the one real threat is to make it harder for citizens to protect themselves?

news.yahoo.com
(visit the link for the full news article)



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 02:22 PM
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Posted again here :

www.npr.org...

and again here on CSB News :

www.cbsnews.com...(PC +Answer%3A+CBSNews.com)



NRA officials did not immediately return a telephone message for comment Monday. Last week the group's chief lobbyist, Chris Cox, told The Washington Post that the "NRA supports legitimate efforts to stop criminal activity, but we will not stand idle while our Second Amendment is sacrificed for politics." The Post first reported the proposal.


I agree with the NRA's stand on this so far, for once.



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 02:22 PM
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Instead of rectifying the situation at its core problem, they would rather infringe on the 2nd Amendment?
No where in the Constitution does it mandate that the citizens or its dealers report the weapons that the American people are rightfully allowed to purchase.

Just another step in the NWO, and its population control. Know the number of armed citizens, know what your up against. Absolutely pathetic!



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 02:26 PM
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reply to post by Whereweheaded
 


yeah aliens are coming too...........



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 02:28 PM
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Also, came across this article, ( in part ) that I thought was an interesting read. Not only was this not in the MSM, but is unknown to most citizens.


The worst of the Bush record, though, is in the courts. Bush appointee Judge Reggie B. Walton, of the D.C. District Court, tells us that the Second Amendment is not an individual right in Seegars v. Ashcroft. The Bush Administration opposed Supreme Court review of U.S. v. Emerson, with Assistant U.S. Attorney William B. Majeta claiming in open court that there is no individual Constitutional right to own firearms, the result of the Bush Administration's actions being that Dr. Tim Emerson was convicted of merely possessing a firearm while under a customary restraining order issued during his divorce. And Bush's Solicitor General, Ted Olson, aggressively prosecuted the case of U.S. v. Thomas Lamar Bean, permanently stripping Bean of his Second Amendment rights, merely for accidentally carrying a box of .22 shells across the Mexican border.


source: www.lewrockwell.com...

The link above, has some interesting key points that should concern any 2nd Amendment advocate.



Despite what Republicans may say, George W. Bush has shown that rather than being a protector of the Second Amendment, he is yet another statist enemy of the right to bear arms.


Make no mistake, we are at war with regards to our 2nd Amendment, never before in history has the 2nd fallen under such an attack!




edit on 20-12-2010 by Whereweheaded because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 02:29 PM
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reply to post by AtruthGuy
 


A typical response from someone unable to conjure up a constructive thought to this topic....

ignorance is bliss for some!



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 02:31 PM
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Originally posted by sbctinfantry

Feds want reporting for high-powered rifle sales




The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives has asked the White House budget office to approve an emergency request requiring border-area gun dealers to report the sales of two or more rifles to the same customer within a five-day period.




From what I see here this is for two or more rifles within a 5 day period. So on day 6 you could buy another rifle.
What they are trying to stop is the spread of weapons to Mexico and for people to stop selling arms.
I personally think you Americans should have the right to bare arms but this does not seem like a bad proposal.
With all the Gangs and Cartels out there, most of the weapons more than likely came from the US. I see where there might be a problem if they try and notify the authorities after every sale but this is for 2 or more within 5 days. Whats the problem??
Regards
edit on 20-12-2010 by maythetruthbeknown because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 02:35 PM
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The problem is that war is raging on our border, and this is the solution presented? American freedom allows us to purchase those arms and sell them to whomever we please, as long as they have no criminal record. We are not allowed to transport those arms across the border, and the alleged buyers should never have been state-side to begin with.

The fact that this is (allegedly) large enough a problem shows that the fundamental immigration and customs policies are flawed to the point that it is causing death and destruction. What, then, is the solution? A reporting to some federal beurocrat when we buy a certain amount in a certain period?

Rubbish.



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 02:38 PM
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reply to post by maythetruthbeknown
 


The problem my friend, is that this could be a blatant attempt to use this scenario ( mexico, weapons etc ) as means to to say...ok Americans, you can't buy/have this many weapons. Which in accordance with the 2nd Amendment right, there is no stipulation to how many weapons a citizen can own. ( keeping in mind those whom are known criminals cant own weapons, I'm talking about the regular joes of our country )



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 02:45 PM
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reply to post by Whereweheaded
 


I see your point, lets hope it does not come to that.
I do have a question for you though. At the moment could someone with no convictions go into a shop and say purchase 50 different weapons and no questions would be asked?? Obviously would depend on state and probably restrictions on type of weapon , but where you are could they?



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 02:49 PM
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Of course questions would be asked. The clerk would probably have asked before he ever let them over the counter. If the answer seemed suspicious he would contact the authorities, and they would probably hold an investigation.

That's how freedom works.

As it stands right now, you can get arrested for having an 'arsenal' of two weapons and a thousand rounds of ammo, though no law is written that says so. Doesn't this sound like the makings of that law, after persons have been prosecuted for it.

Supporting Articles from highest extreme to lowest :




Shaw was sending the contents to Los Angeles, but when the movers found rifles in a suitcase and duffle bag, they called police, said Manhattan prosecutor Christopher Prevost.

Cops discovered an AK-47 assault rifle, a Mossberg 12-gauge shotgun, a loaded British rifle, 96 knives, five sets of metal knuckles, eight batons, 2,833 rounds of ammunition, stage pistols and an air rifle, authorities said.

Shaw, 57, was hit Monday with dozens of weapons possession charges.

The tattoo artist's lawyer painted a different picture of his client.

"He's a peaceful man," said Brian Pakett, describing Shaw as an artist and author. "The charges miscast the type of person Mr. Shaw is. He never had as much as a fight."

Pakett claimed the weaponry was legally purchased in New York State more than 15 years ago, but wouldn't say why Shaw was looking to move them.

www.nydailynews.com...



Blues Traveler Frontman Arrested, Small Arsenal Discovered In SUV

Blues Traveler frontman John Popper is in trouble in Washington state. The singer was arrested Wednesday night after state troopers found a small arsenal of rifles and handguns in his vehicle during a traffic stop. According to the Washington State Patrol, officers pulled over a Mercedes after it was clocked going more than 110 miles per hour. The car is registered to Popper, who was traveling as the passenger. The driver, Brian Gourgeois, was arrested for reckless driving. Troopers also detected the smell of marijuana, and arrested Popper for drug possession. As they searched the singer's SUV, they found 14 weapons stashed in various hidden compartments, along with a pair of nightvision goggles and a Taser. The SUV was also fitted with flashing emergency lights, a siren, and an external PA system. Officers say Popper told them he equipped his SUV in such a manner to prevent being "left behind" in the event of a natural disaster. Both men are facing charges of possession of a controlled substance and possession of drug paraphernalia. Popper could face federal charges for having a vehicle with hidden compartments.

dcathome.com...


A brief research of the web shows that the general consesus of an 'arsenal' defined in government terms is greater than 1,000 rounds of ammo (between $20 - $200), and/or greater than 20 weapons. Any collecter might be alarmed to read this, as that is generally the average collector's inventory. Avid shooters on the other hand, realize that 1,000 rounds of ammunition is basically a good day of shooting at the range.

Putting limits on the 2nd Amendment for the sake of another country's failed status is just unconstitutional.

Finally, I am having trouble locating a story I read a few weeks ago at most. It was about a man with two pistols, about 1,000 rounds of ammo which he owned legally and was still arrested for solely that purpose.
edit on 2010/12/20 by sbctinfantry because: More information provided.



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 02:53 PM
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Originally posted by maythetruthbeknown

Originally posted by sbctinfantry

Feds want reporting for high-powered rifle sales




The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives has asked the White House budget office to approve an emergency request requiring border-area gun dealers to report the sales of two or more rifles to the same customer within a five-day period.




From what I see here this is for two or more rifles within a 5 day period. So on day 6 you could buy another rifle.
What they are trying to stop is the spread of weapons to Mexico and for people to stop selling arms.
I personally think you Americans should have the right to bare arms but this does not seem like a bad proposal.
With all the Gangs and Cartels out there, most of the weapons more than likely came from the US. I see where there might be a problem if they try and notify the authorities after every sale but this is for 2 or more within 5 days. Whats the problem??Regards



edit on 20-12-2010 by maythetruthbeknown because: (no reason given)

it's all for freakin' show.

Well it seems the Mexican military is directly involved escorting drug runners.
I saw the "60 minutes" or whatever news show it was where the Federale captain pulls an AR-15 off the evidence rack and nods and points to the receiver: Amigo:" "Colt Firearms corp.; Massachusetts USA!"


if he 'd pulled an FN-FAL it would have said "Fabrique national Belgium "Uh Oh" I see we have Belgian guns being smuggled into mexico too Jim film at 11:00


Of course they are built in Massachusetts! but were they smuggled across the border illegally or BOUGHT BY THE MEXICAN GOVT???????Stolen or traded from gov troops ??all the news heads nod up and down: oh wow :"Massachusetts;usa..."









WND Exclusive INVASION USA
Mexican army escorts
border drug-runners
Minutemen, U.S. officials say military
directs illegals to avoid Arizona patrols
Posted: April 11, 2005
9:40 pm Eastern

© 2010 WorldNetDaily.com



WASHINGTON – The Mexican army is escorting those attempting to cross over the U.S. border illegally – including known drug-runners – to areas not patrolled by the Minuteman Project near Naco, Ariz., say Border Patrol sources and other officials including a U.S. congressman.

Rep. Tom Tancredo, R-Colo., chairman of the Congressional Immigration Reform Caucus, denounced the action by the Mexican military and called on President Bush to do the same.


"President Bush should publicly denounce Mexico's latest act to curb U.S. law," said Tancredo. "The president of Mexico is threatening to sue any member of the Minutemen who have contact with a Mexican national, threatening to take the U.S. into the International Court of Justice at the Hague over the passage of Prop 200 in Arizona, and is providing transportation to Mexican nationals trying to sneak into the U.S. One could say he is acting in the best interest of his nation. Isn't it unfortunate we cannot say the same thing about President Bush?"

Grey Deacon, a spokesman for the Minuteman Project, reported illegal immigration is down considerably from previous months in the area patrolled by the U.S. citizen volunteers trying to bring attention to the problem of the porous border. While he claimed credit for 241 Minuteman-assisted apprehensions by the Border Patrol in the week since the project began, he pointed out the 23-mile section of the border normally sees thousands of crossing attempts a day while they have been numbered in the dozens a day since the project began.

He said the Minutemen aided today in the capture of a "coyote," a professional human smuggler.

"But the traffic is down because the Mexican military is leading illegal aliens, including drug smugglers, away from the area of the border we are patrolling," he said.

Border Patrol sources say the Mexican army recently moved about 1,000 troops to the Agua Prieta region, just south of where the Minutemen are. These troops, the sources say, are diverting all of the illegal alien and drug-smuggling traffic away from the Minutemen.

Just prior to the launch of the Minuteman Project March 30, Miguel Escobar Valdez, Mexican consul in Douglas, Ariz., said the Mexican military was bracing for possible violence on the border.

"The Mexican army is on alert," Escobar said. "Also, law enforcement will be vigilant because the situation is very volatile. This is because, I have to say it, there are violent and radical elements on both sides of the border."

The Minuteman Project is a group of about 1,000 U.S. volunteers patrolling the U.S. side of the border on a 23-mile stretch in Arizona near Naco. When they spot illegal aliens crossing the border, they alert Border Patrol agents to make arrests. The members plan to stay through the end of April.

The volunteers focused on the border area near Naco because it had become one of the highest traffic corridors for border-crossing illegal aliens. Last year, more than 40 percent of the 1.15 million illegal aliens caught by the Border Patrol were taken into custody in the southern Arizona region.

Related stories:

Minutemen catch 141 illegals so far

Minuteman Project snagging first illegals



www.wnd.com...

edit on 20-12-2010 by 46ACE because: (no reason given)

edit on 20-12-2010 by 46ACE because: (no reason given)

edit on 20-12-2010 by 46ACE because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 02:56 PM
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reply to post by maythetruthbeknown
 


The problem is that legally bought guns are not an issue for the U.S.

It is a mexico problem. Let them deal with it.

Perhaps if Mexico secured their side of the border, guns wouldnt get in. Thats the common sense solution, but Mexico would then be forced to patrol their border, and that would in turn keep the illegal aliens in Mexico where they belong.

Mexico loves the idea of thrusting their poor people problem on us, its good to see them suffering now.

Restricting the rights of Americans in order to appease a foreign government is never a good idea.



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 03:04 PM
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reply to post by maythetruthbeknown
 


When someone buys a weapon in our country they must pass a NICS ( i think thats what it is ), in other words a background check on your persons. So if a criminal made they attempt in a legal purchase, the red flags would go off, and he/she wouldn't be able to purchase said weapon. keep in mind this does not deter that same person from buying on the " black " market.



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 03:10 PM
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POLICE ACT SWIFTLY ( Gestapo Violates Mans Rights )AFTER GUN PURCHASES

ODOT worker who'd been put on leave is mentally evaluated after buying handguns, AK-47


March 09, 2010

By Anita Burke
Mail Tribune
Concerns about an Oregon Department of Transportation employee who purchased several guns after being placed on leave prompted law enforcement across Southern Oregon to step in.

Negotiators and a SWAT team from Medford police safely took a man — whose name wasn't released — into protective custody Monday morning in the 500 block of Effie Street, Medford police said in a news release.

He was taken to Rogue Valley Medical Center for a mental-health evaluation.

The man recently had been placed on administrative leave from his job and was "very disgruntled," the news release said.

ODOT Communications Director Patrick Cooney said there were administrative, personnel matters involved that limited what the department could discuss.

However, the state agency had reported concerns about the man to law enforcement agencies, who started monitoring him, officials said.

"We had concerning information regarding a personnel issue and were watching the subject," Jackson County Sheriff Mike Winters said.

In two days, the man bought a Heckler & Koch .45-caliber universal self-loading handgun, a Walther .380-caliber handgun and an AK-47 assault rifle, Medford police Lt. Bob Hansen said. All of those firearms were purchased legally, with required record checks by the Oregon State Police.

Authorities were "extremely concerned" that the man may have been planning to retaliate against his employers, the news release said.

"Instead of being reactive, we took a proactive approach," OSP Sgt. Jeff Proulx said.

Douglas and Jackson County sheriff's departments, OSP officers based in both counties and police in Medford and Roseburg collaborated, he said.

Medford police watched the man's home overnight, starting at about 9 p.m. Sunday, Hansen said.

Because he was known to have weapons, police wanted to defuse the situation and ensure the man wasn't a danger to himself or others before the neighborhood awakened and people started their daily activities, Hansen said.

Medford's hostage negotiators and SWAT team were called in at 3 a.m. Monday and arrived on the scene at about 5:45 a.m., he said.

About a dozen officers responded. They closed the street for about an hour and evacuated three homes to protect neighbors and prevent bystanders from gathering, he said.

After a phone conversation with negotiators, the man — who was alone in the home — agreed to come out, Hansen said.

Police seized the recently purchased firearms, as well as another .45-caliber Heckler & Koch handgun and a 12-gauge shotgun. Police are holding the weapons for safekeeping, but no criminal charges have been filed.

Reach reporter Anita Burke at 541-776-4485, or e-mail aburke@mailtribune.com.


www.mailtribune.com.../20100309/NEWS/3090315




Man Arrested for Practicing Second Amendment, Warning About Martial Law


In Massachusetts, more than a dozen but less than twenty firearms are considered an arsenal and may get you arrested and held for “evaluation,” especially if you mistrust and fear the government.



In Massachusetts, having one of these will get you arrested.


“A Massachusetts man is under arrest for the stash of guns police found in his possession,” reports MSNBC, WHDH-TV, and the Associated Press. “Authorities took Gregory Girard, 45, into custody Wednesday afternoon on weapons charges after apparently finding dozens of guns inside his Manchester-by-the-Sea home.”

According to the report, flares guns, handcuffs, kevlar vests, and helmets are weapons.

Girard’s crime? He feared the government would impose martial law. “He was convinced that martial law was imminent,” said a prosecutor.

Authorities were tipped off by his wife, a Cambridge psychiatrist. She told police she was afraid to go home and plans to file a restraining order. “He made the following statements to her, ‘Don’t talk to people. Shoot them instead. It’s fine to shoot people in the head, because traitors deserve it,’” the prosecutor said. It was not reported in what context the statements were made.

Girard rarely left the house, hoarded food and medication and warned those in adjoining apartments not to be alarmed by noises that sounded like gunfire, according to his neighbors, the report states. He had converted his third-story loft into a firing range, according to police.

In Massachusetts, this enough to get you arrested and held for psychiatric evaluation. Actually threatening and assaulting somebody is not required. All you have to do is have a couple guns, assorted military and police equipment, and talk about martial law.

In April of 2009, Massachusetts passed S18, a martial law bill. It gives the governor the power to authorize the deployment and use of force to distribute supplies and materials and and allows local authorities to enter private residences for investigation and to quarantine individuals.

“Any person who knowingly violates an order of the commissioner or his or her designee, or of a local public health authority or its designee, given to effectuate the purposes of this subsection shall be punished by imprisonment for not more than 6 months, or by a fine of note more than one thousand dollars, or both,” the legislation states.

www.prisonplanet.com...



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 03:14 PM
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reply to post by Whereweheaded
 


Ok, so I assume the information from the check gets passed on to the government (or is done by them) so they already know how many legal weapons are out there and who owns them. Do they do a check when buying ammo?? Guess not. Though it seems they already have you under control anyway. Seems they are scared.



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 03:28 PM
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People that follow laws are not the problem.
Who walks into a gun store and buys 100 AR's ? Anyone ?...



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 03:35 PM
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reply to post by maythetruthbeknown
 


Well one thing I forgot to submit, purchasing a weapon, to the best of my knowledge, its a criminal background check. Some states dont require you to register said weapon with the state. So in your above response, no, the govt wont have a pin point accurate count of your arsenal.



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 03:49 PM
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If you are not a criminal, and you have any number of weapons, why should anyone care?

The point is, that when you have a weapon, and are found guilty of a felony offense, you lose the right to bear arms. When the government searches their databases, they find that you own guns and demand you turn them in. Based on serial #'s a weapon can always be traced back to it's owner. That's a pretty solid system.



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