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Mom Accused Of Being Grinch: Returns Shop With A Cop Merchandise For Cash

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posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 12:54 PM
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reply to post by hotbakedtater
 


Though I commend you on standing by your thoughts and views, you have stated over and over that there was no deception or theft, yada yada...
Fact: Mother went into the program fully aware of the programs design.
Fact: She knowingly returned the items for the cash benefit.
Fact: By doing so, this is a clear case of deception and fraud.

Fraud:

fraud is a deliberate misrepresentation which causes another person to suffer damages, usually monetary losses


mon·e·tar·y/ˈmänəˌterē/ Adjective: Of or relating to money or currency.



So yes, this is a clear lack of bad judgement, and Fraudulent behavior, and needed to be arrested. Fraudulent Deception is a crime.

Criminal conduct involving fraud, theft, and/or deception may also reflect a lack of good professional characte


Fraudulent behavior is a crime of moral turpitude


Federal and state laws prohibit a person from intentionally deceiving another person for personal benefit or to harm the victim


Any questions? Would you care to try to justify the above? Didn't think so!








posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 01:05 PM
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Originally posted by Whereweheaded
reply to post by hotbakedtater
 


Though I commend you on standing by your thoughts and views, you have stated over and over that there was no deception or theft, yada yada...
Fact: Mother went into the program fully aware of the programs design.
Fact: She knowingly returned the items for the cash benefit.
Fact: By doing so, this is a clear case of deception and fraud.

Fraud:

fraud is a deliberate misrepresentation which causes another person to suffer damages, usually monetary losses


mon·e·tar·y/ˈmänəˌterē/ Adjective: Of or relating to money or currency.



So yes, this is a clear lack of bad judgement, and Fraudulent behavior, and needed to be arrested. Fraudulent Deception is a crime.

Criminal conduct involving fraud, theft, and/or deception may also reflect a lack of good professional characte


Fraudulent behavior is a crime of moral turpitude


Federal and state laws prohibit a person from intentionally deceiving another person for personal benefit or to harm the victim


Any questions? Would you care to try to justify the above? Didn't think so!




I do not have to justify anything. The rage filled cop does. He has to justify why a woman was jailed who commited no crime.

The cop spent money on a gift. A GIFT is given, and becomes SOLE property of the recipient, as soon as the gift is given.

Again where is the fraud?



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 01:08 PM
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Ok. I went and read a couple more articles on it. My final opinion. No she shouldn't have gone to jail because the cop was emotional. A cop being emotional is what got the woodcarver in Seattle murdered. Emotions shouldn't affect the law.

However, I wouldn't be opposed to her getting a little public humiliation, and I wouldn't even be opposed to the cop asking for the money back (and getting it), but in the end the kids should get presents that can't be taken back.

And yep I agree.. it was a gift, no fraud, I guess. The mother sucks so although she shouldn't go to jail I can't feel too sorry for her.
edit on 20-12-2010 by GogoVicMorrow because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 01:09 PM
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reply to post by hotbakedtater
 


Do you not understand the definition of Fraud? Here, I'll make it easy for you:

Fraud:

fraud is a deliberate misrepresentation which causes another person to suffer damages, usually monetary losses.


source: www.wisegeek.com...


Please note in the above description, " deliberate misrepresentation". This womans actions were deliberate, any thoughts on the contrary would be naive.



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 01:11 PM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


Apparently, "Shop with a Cop" is a registered trademarked program sponsored nationally by the Fraternal Order of Police. I've gotten that far. Anyone care to see if they can find more info about how to qualify, what you need to agree to, etc? Or are we just going to assume that the thousands of police officers across the country who donate their time and money to this endeavor are just doing it on the outside chance they get the opportunity to toss some indigent mom into jail at Christmastime?


As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 01:12 PM
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reply to post by Whereweheaded
 


Yeah but she didn't defraud him into monetary losses. He had already spent the money and knowingly given the gifts over to the family. He experienced no more loss than he did buying the gifts. She just stole his Christmas act from him. So yeah she is an awful person. She hurt someone trying to do good and most likely her kids, but I changed my mind, there is no fraud or theft by deception.


edit on 20-12-2010 by GogoVicMorrow because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 01:15 PM
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Originally posted by Whereweheaded
reply to post by hotbakedtater
 


Do you not understand the definition of Fraud? Here, I'll make it easy for you:

Fraud:

fraud is a deliberate misrepresentation which causes another person to suffer damages, usually monetary losses.


source: www.wisegeek.com...


Please note in the above description, " deliberate misrepresentation". This womans actions were deliberate, any thoughts on the contrary would be naive.
I se no fraud based on your description. There is no monetary loss with a gift given. A gift is meant to be given away. The cop suffered no loss of moeny because the oney was spent on a gift. Once a gift is goven the giver has no control over what happens to it.

Do you not understand the definition of gift?



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 01:16 PM
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Originally posted by hotbakedtater
The cop spent money on a gift. A GIFT is given, and becomes SOLE property of the recipient, as soon as the gift is given.

Again where is the fraud?


This is not a simple case of giving someone a gift and not liking what they do with it, this is a charitable program with a specific design to benefit underprivileged children. If you apply for some kind of benefit, say housing allowance, and then spend it on heroin or fags then that's OK is it? Because it's basically the same thing.
She enrolled her children into a charitable program that is designed to benefit underprivileged children with the intent of abusing it.


The rage filled cop does. He has to justify why a woman was jailed who commited no crime.


And this idea you're trying to promote that a sole 'rage filled cop' put her in prison is, yet again, nonsense. Not only should this be obvious to anyone with an ounce of common sense, but it's make slightly clearer in other articles. I'm sure you read these articles when doing your research? The question is, why not quote them? Oh that's right, it doesn't fuel your vendetta...


After consulting with the county attorney and the district court judge, deputies arrested Amanda J. Beard, 28, of Brandenburg on a warrant for theft by deception under $300
www.lex18.com...


So rather than pick on the one cop, make sure you attribute your blame accordingly to several cops, the district judge and the county attorney please.
edit on 20-12-2010 by AgentSmith because: fix BB tags



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 01:16 PM
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reply to post by yeahright
 


Yeah.. if there is most likely a registration and it very well could have some rules, I still don't see what they could be that would lead a person to a jail sentence though. That would be kind of harsh for violating the rules to a "contest" ( I say contest because I assume there are a lot of needy that met the same requirements buy jsut missed out on chance).



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 01:17 PM
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I do not think the over all gist of the shop with a cop program is to jail mothers. I think in this case we have a cop who in his own words, was filled with rage because he lost control over the gift he voluntarily gave to someone.

That to me is abuse of power, and is disgusting.



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 01:19 PM
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reply to post by AgentSmith
 


What agenda? Are you serious? This is a debate on the internet.

I did not see any other articles regarding the topic. Thanks for sharing.



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 01:20 PM
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reply to post by AgentSmith
 


Actually I did see an article that said that cop was the pursuer and asked the judge to grant him the warrant.
How did he even find out I wonder? With the charitable organization, that may very well change the rules.. I don't know my opinion on whether or not she should/could be jailed has changed.
The one thing I have maintained is that she is a sh!tty person.


edit on 20-12-2010 by GogoVicMorrow because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 01:21 PM
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And how pathetic and disgusting that this so called CHARITABLE organization ripped apart a family at Xmas time, for less than three hundred bucks.

This program and those officials do not care about the well being of children at all, as evidenced by this case.



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 01:22 PM
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My question is this. Did the police officer in question spend his own money or was it provided by the organization? That's where the word person becomes important. Also as the moderator has stated, we haven't been made aware of the rules. I still stick by my previous statement. I don't know how old the children are but they have had Christmas spoiled for them and they won't soon forget. If the police officer is to blame 'he is definitely the Grinch.



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 01:22 PM
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reply to post by hotbakedtater
 


She will no doubt be out Wednesday though (her court date and before Xmas). They aren't going to keep her on this charge.


edit on 20-12-2010 by GogoVicMorrow because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 01:23 PM
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reply to post by hotbakedtater
 

None of us have all the facts of her situation, so until we do I don't think anyone here can pass judgment. I think the arrest is ridiculous, should she be confronted, probably, but with no facts, it's in the gray area.



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 01:24 PM
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reply to post by michial
 


This isn't here in KY, but if the rules are the same there might be a clue here:
www.shopwithacopsandiego.com...



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 01:27 PM
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reply to post by hotbakedtater
 


Shop with a Cop is a registered trademarked program sponsored nationally. With the patent on the program, her deceitful actions, did in fact suggest monetary loss. His expenditure as charitable donations, or " charitable proceeds" , he does have a say in the actions on whether a gift is returned or not.

Just because its labeled as a " gift ", doesn't mean her actions are justified. The law specifically addresses, " intent ". She had full knowledge of her actions.

Fact:

Criminal intent must be formed before the act, and it must unite with the act. It need not exist for any given length of time before the act; the intent and the act can be as instantaneous as simultaneous or successive thoughts.


the prosecution may rely on the presumption that a person intends the NATURAL AND PROBABLE CONSEQUENCES of his or her voluntary acts.


source: law.jrank.org...



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 01:27 PM
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Originally posted by mtnshredder
reply to post by hotbakedtater
 

None of us have all the facts of her situation, so until we do I don't think anyone here can pass judgment. I think the arrest is ridiculous, should she be confronted, probably, but with no facts, it's in the gray area.


You may not have facts, I do.

Fact, a woman was jailed for returning a gift.

Fact, because one cop got his ego hurt and felt enraged, this woman's family was ripped apart.

Fact. Once a gift is given, the giver relinquishes all rights to said property.

Fact: this charitable organization ruined these children's xmas, not their mother.



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 01:29 PM
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Originally posted by hotbakedtater
What agenda? Are you serious? This is a debate on the internet.


What agenda? Let's examine some of your language in context:


Merry JackBoot Christmas, Kids!! The pigs put your mommy away, and wow, what a Christmas Miracle that gift will turn out to be.



Maybe the conspiracy is to break up the family so the cops will have ensured future business.



In AMERIKA, if you so much as ANGER one of the jackboots pretending to be protectors, you WILL BE JAILED.



There is NO CRIME here, yet the JackBoots broke up and ruined a family, all over an event meant to HELP families.



but it is AOK for the pigs to illegally jail this woman and break up a family?


I'm just guessing, but I get the impression you hate cops? Perhaps it is because:


Also, I live around here, and we have some very dirty cops around here.


Justified or not, it is pretty clear that you hate them and your agenda is to ensure you expose their evilness and spread hatred, you're so intent you didn't think clearly before posting this thread and let your rage get the better of you, completely ignoring the fact the woman was in the wrong by abusing a charitable event organised by the 'jackboots' at their own expense to help underprivileged kids. Oh the horror!
edit on 20-12-2010 by AgentSmith because: (no reason given)



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