The Myth of the Jewish Race

Originally posted by Skyfloating
I previoulsy linked studies showing the DNA Connection between various Jewish tribes. That means there is a little more than "only a Religion" or "only a cultural identity".

But I fail to understand whats so bad about that. Just because Hitler viewed it as something bad doesnt mean it is. Its like having apples in one basket and Bananas in the other. Two different races of fruits. That doesnt make apples or bananas superior and inferior to each other.

From what I understand the DNA connection is due to marriages. Say for instance a Japanese man becomes a Jew. There is a very good chance he or his children will marry Jews who carry Semitic genetic markers. This doesn't always happen but the potential is out there.

Originally posted by Josephus23
reply to post by bluemirage5

 

You are quite correct on your interpretation of the Old Jewish tribes.

The Torah is actually not written by Moses at all and most Biblical and Jewish scholars now believe that the first five books of the bible are a combination of 4 oral traditional compiled over the centuries by the Aaronid and Shiloh priest of the Old Northern and Southern Kingdom.
Actually most biblical scholars now believe that David and Solomon were fictions.

The 4 traditions are the J,E,P, and D texts.
This stands for Jehovah, Elohim, Deuteronomy, and Priest texts.

This was discovered due to the amount of doublets found in the Pentateuch.

These were compiled and supposedly written in the final form by Ezra.
While the Jews of both Kingdoms were imprisoned in Babylon, Ezra was blessed by the Persian Emperor, Antaxerxes, to bestow a uniform set of beliefs upon the two factions.
So many ironies!!!

edit on 12/21/2010 by Josephus23 because: (no reason given)

The Documentary Hypothesis is a hypothesis. There are other competing hypotheses, which have been gaining ground. Personally I think the Torah was recompiled after the Babylonian Captivity and even the Bible implies that. Some apocrypha outright states it. More modern hypotheses point to a vast multitude of fragments and possible oral sources as being the compilation of the post Babylonian Captivity Torah.

Ezra has even less support as a historical figure than either David or Solomon.

reply to post by MikeboydUS


I wouldn't be so sure about that.

Feel free to read the wikipedia entrance on Ezra.

If you ask any Biblical scholar about the J,E,P, and D texts then he will tell you, most likely word for word, what I have.

The only discrepancy is that the book of Deuteronomy was supposed to have been written by Jeremiah and his scribe Baruch.
I could go into the history of how this happened starting in 722 BC with the conquering of the Northern Kingdom (or was it the south)....
Anyway one kingdom was conquered and the North was forced to the south, or maybe vice versa.
I would suggest looking it up.
I could post links, but when someone has to search to find the truth it means much more to them.

This put one priesthood against the other.
Look up Doublets in the Torah.

Look up the UGA Phd professor who wrote a book called Who wrote the Bible.

I recently took a class called "Religion and Social Control" and this was a main theme in the class.
So I can say that this is the official version that is taught in schools.

reply to post by rubbertramp

as a jew, i've researched this topic before. especially concerning my personal family tree. you are right in the sense that anyone can convert to judaism, yet there is more to it than that. here are some links if ur interested.

Hey rubbertramp,
Would you like some links to the dna testing, genetics, and generations of the Indian Jews, Arab Jews, Ethiopian Jews, Central-Asian Jews, Tibetan Burmese Jews, Asian Jews, Bantu Jews, and European Jews????

Because all of this available online as well. My point being that any one of those "Jewish" groups can also claim genuine authenticity.

The biggest thing I love about this all, is that even if you study Jewish Mysticism, one of the bottom lines is that race is an Illusion and does not matter in the grand scheme of things. I think this post proves much of that.

reply to post by Josephus23


There's nothing in the article that suggests that he was an actual historical figure. It did mention Ben Sira, who lived in the 2nd century BC, did not even mention Ezra, but he did mention Nehemiah.

I recommend reading, The Making of the Pentateuch by R. N. Whybray, which presents more contemporary research on the subject. If your class didn't cover his work then they failed to cover all sides of the issue.

reply to post by MikeboydUS


The Documentary Hypothesis is the most accepted by Biblical Scholars.
It is the mainstream accepted view of the creation of the Torah and it was originally created by Juilus Welthuasen.

It was again expounded upon by Richard Elliot Friedman in his book Who Wrote the Bible.

I want to make clear that this is not what I believe, but this is what is taught in seminary schools as being the most probable creation of the Pentateuch.

*sigh*

There is a difference between Jewish heritage and Jewish religion. In a sense, everyone can become a "Jew" by converting to Judaism, but those of Hebrew heritage call themselves "Jews" as well.

I don't see why this is a big deal or why it deserves it's own thread.

BTW, 1/4 Jew be heritage.

Here is another view of the documentary hypothesis.

Link to source.

You must remember that the class that I was taking was "Religion and Social Control".
The reason that we spoke of this being the dominant hypothesis regarding the creation of the Torah is that this represents that creation of the Torah in a fashion that was exclusive to controlling the mass populace.

But that is essentially what the Torah is about any way.
Jewish, or Mosaic, Law.

But as I said this is not what I believe. It is oh so close to what I believe, but it is not my personal interpretation.

reply to post by MikeboydUS


You are correct and there was mixing of the two peoples among the Nordic people.

There is no absolute proof of where the Hebrews originated from but going back in Torah it seems to direct them to the Akkadians or Amorites (semitic tribes) of the Euphrates. There is a place there that I call the Sea of Reeds (I'll remember the exact name later...) and the Semitic tribes (still afew exist there today) were and are mainly farmers but have since converted to Islam.

The Hebrews, I have no doubt at all, were in fact a mix of many peoples as Jacob's sons took wives from other tribes. As for Ephraim, it is claimed his mother is Egyptian but she was an adopted child found much the same was as Joseph and was found with a Hebrew emblem around her neck. This is partially why I suspect this child to be the daughter of Dinah and the sole heir to Shechem hence why Joseph inherited Shechem as a gift by Pharaoh as a wedding present upon marrying this girl. My bet is there is some truth to this story.

reply to post by Josephus23


I also found something quite astonishing....

the Hebrew Alphabet was created from the Migan David or Star of David.

Originally posted by Josephus23
Here is another view of the documentary hypothesis.

Link to source.

You must remember that the class that I was taking was "Religion and Social Control".
The reason that we spoke of this being the dominant hypothesis regarding the creation of the Torah is that this represents that creation of the Torah in a fashion that was exclusive to controlling the mass populace.

But that is essentially what the Torah is about any way.
Jewish, or Mosaic, Law.

But as I said this is not what I believe. It is oh so close to what I believe, but it is not my personal interpretation.

edit on 12/21/2010 by Josephus23 because: (no reason given)

Essentially thats what all codes of law and conduct are, control mechanisms that instill social order.

From just a tribal point of view, the Torah represents a legal code to be followed,like the Code of Hammurabi, but it also in a sense functions as a Tribal Constitution.