It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

The Myth of the Jewish Race

page: 1
11
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 10:59 AM
link   
This is something I see and hear from time to time, especially on ATS.

The Myth perpetuated is that Jews are a race or bloodline, subject to some Nazi Rassenhygiene. This has never ever been true in all of Hebrew, Israelite, and Jewish history.

Jewish identity or more appropriately, Hebrew identity, has always been a tribal identity.

This is clear even in the Torah, when thousands of Egyptians are adopted into the House of Israel during the Exodus.
An even more apparent adoption is Ruth the Moabite, who is the great grandmother of David.

Take note of that, the Royal House of David, has Moabite in its ancestry.

Anyone can be a Jew. Its not the only tribal identity that works like that either. Many Native American tribes have a similar conversion process and a number of those tribes have had and still have Caucasian and African members.

Lets actually have a look at some Jews from around the World.

Indian Jews




Arab Jews




Ethiopian Jews




Central Asian Jews


Chinese Jews




Tibetan-Burmese Jews





Bantu Jews



For completeness sake, some European Jews


And there we have it!

Jews can be anyone or anywhere! You never know where we might turn up.

So stop the conspiracy of a Jewish Race. There isn't any race. When someone mentions such nonsense, quickly inform them they are spreading myth that is simply not true. Anyone can be a Jew. Even you!




edit on 20/12/10 by MikeboydUS because: !




posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 11:11 AM
link   
reply to post by MikeboydUS
 


Good thread.


One thing that strikes me as odd though,

these European Jews seem to be completely different than all the others around the globe. In terms of well, things they encourage and do. It strikes me as REALLY odd. Like, not fitting in the picture. Hmmm

Also, I would like to add to the list, Iranian Jews. There is also an Iranian Jew in the Iranian parliament. Iran is home to the second highest number of Jew residents in the middle-east after Israel.

This of course, to verbally slap those who claim the Iranian president said he wanted to wipe the jews out(or any other ridiculous argument based on that - including the denying of the holocaust).:up



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 11:12 AM
link   
as a jew, i've researched this topic before.
especially concerning my personal family tree.
you are right in the sense that anyone can convert to judaism, yet there is more to it than that.
here are some links if ur interested.

jewish genetics
link

jewish dna testing
link

jewish gen
link



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 11:18 AM
link   
reply to post by rubbertramp
 


Sigh. There's no point in making anything more of a religion than a religion. You do understand the aversion in peoples mind comes to be when you imply that not everyone can 'just' become Jewish right? Anyone can just become Christian or Muslim, but as you imply, not Jewish as there is more than just...whatever you organized religious folk do.



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 11:24 AM
link   
I posted a similar thread about a year back and got flamed, but this is the hard and fast truth.

Here is the definition of "who is a jew?" straight from the horse's mouth.


Dear Mike, Anti-Semites sometimes claim that Jews are racists and supremacists because they refer to themselves as the chosen people. But this defining of Jews by race is an error and in no way reflects the true Jewish belief. Membership in the Jewish people is not dependent on race. For the Jews, peoplehood has always been defined only by acceptance of the Torah. In the words of the famous philosopher Rabbi Saadiah Gaon (882-942), This people is only a people through its Torah. Any Jew who rejects the Torah is not part of the Jewish people. Any individual of any race can become a Jew and be part of the Jewish people. Thus it is clear that the term chosen people is a misnomer and a more proper rendering would be chosen religion. But this still leaves much to be explained. What is the chosen religion? What was G-d's purpose in choosing a particular group of people who had particular beliefs? Judaism teaches that man's purpose in this world is to recognize G-d as his Creator and to thank G-d for creating him. Before He created man, G-d already had angels who sang His praises, but He chose to create humans, who despite being hampered by their own physical needs and surrounded by a world of distractions, and despite not perceiving His existence directly, would believe in Him and praise Him. After creation, G-d waited for the right people to come along, people through whom He could teach the world about its purpose. At first there were enlightened individuals - Abraham, Isaac and Jacob - who understood on their own that the world must have one all-powerful and benevolent Creator. G-d appeared to them and spoke to them. But this was not enough. G-d wanted to give His law to a large group of people, who would then live by this law and thereby teach the world about G-d's greatness. He chose to give His law to the Israelites, the descendants of Abraham, who had been the first to proclaim G-d's existence to the world. Abraham's descendants continued to believe in what their ancestor had taught, and they stuck with it despite the adversity of Egyptian slavery. G-d called them the people I have created for Myself, so that they might speak My praise (Isaiah 43:21). This was their function on earth. However, no one should make the mistake of thinking that G-d was choosing one race and their descendants for all time, for better or for worse. The Jews in ancient times were a very numerous nation. What happened to all descendants of those Jews? The answer is that many Jews have gone lost and left the Torah behind and assimilated into other societies and cultures. They may have Jewish blood, but when we speak of the Jewish people we do not mean them. Just as many have left the Jewish people, many have joined. Some of the greatest names in Jewish history have been converts: Zipporah, wife of Moses; Rahav, wife of Joshua; Ruth, great-grandmother of King David; and Onkelos, compiler of the most authoritative Aramaic translation of the Torah. Great Talmudic sages such as Rabbi Akiva and Rabbi Meir were descended from converts. The Talmud even says that the entire purpose of the Jews exile and dispersal over the face of the earth was so that converts should join them. So we see that the Jews can really be defined as those individuals who chose G-d, not a race or ethnic group chosen by G-d. To those individuals who chose Him, G-d gave laws and teachings to show them how to spread His word and His praise in the world. Let the anti-Semites clarify their position. If they are against a particular race, let it be known to them that Jewry is a religion, not a race. Those of Jewish extraction who do not practice Judaism are not to be considered Jews at all. They may use their Jewish identity or even parts of the Jewish religion to further their own agenda, but they are not Jews, neither are Jews responsible for their actions. On the other hand, if their complaints are directed at the Jewish religion, they have a legitimate right to make their arguments heard and receive substantive answers from Jews. But that is no longer anti-Semitism - hatred of particular people. It is a religious doctrinal debate. We hope this elucidation of the concept of chosen people will help you understand better who Jews are and what they stand for. The use of the term Orthodox Jew does not go very far back in history, and as you say, it was added in our time to distinguish authentic Jews who cling to the Torah of their forefathers from the new groups that have arisen in our time, of which the Zionists are one but by all means not the only. Hersh Lowenthal


link to source



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 11:25 AM
link   


Anyone can be a Jew.


In theory, yes, but very different in practice. I have a girlfriend who converted to judaism at age 12 (her estranged father was jewish). Her fellow jews still treat her like an outsider in some ways even though she has been a jew for 30 years!



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 11:26 AM
link   
lame topic, I could do the same with christians, with muslims, etc etc

does not prove anything.
edit on 20-12-2010 by fordrew because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 11:28 AM
link   
reply to post by Zamini
 


that's not at all what i said.
i said, anyone can become a jew, conversion is allowed, just like christianity etc....
i'm not a religious person, yet both sides of my family are jewish.
maternal side being cohen, able to trace through genetics to the holy land.
i consider myself a jew because of this, yet not a practicing one.
i can try and explain more if interested.
just check the links i provided, it is all explained.
many believe the genetic part goes back to the biblical split of the tribes.
jewish dna has been found in many different groups around the world.
practising judaism is only part of the equation.



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 11:29 AM
link   
reply to post by MikeboydUS
 


Nice job showing how the light within Jewish religion is spread across many bloodlines and races. This is why 1 cannot totally denounce religion as being completly evol or a waste of time, IT WORKED OVERALL in the division process of light and dark. There are many races and bloodlines of multiple religions who REALLY WANNA PUT THEIR BEST EFFORTS ON SPHERE 3 AND MAKE IT HOME TO HEAVEN. I REALLY ENJOYED SEEING THE MANY FACES YOU PRESENTED AND THANKS FOR DOING SO...
There is hope!!!!!!!!!!!!



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 11:35 AM
link   
reply to post by rubbertramp
 


Sure Hebrew identity can be passed down a lineage, Biblically it was paternal and in Rabbinical Judaism its maternal.

Thats just one way of having the tribal identity, its no different say for Navajos or Lakota.

Being part of the tribe is being part of the tribe. Even the Torah says there will only be one standard for those born Hebrew or adopted. No double standards, no ifs, ands, or buts.

As Josephus23 mentioned, the Torah, the Tribal Covenant, is the defining element.
edit on 20/12/10 by MikeboydUS because: .



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 11:39 AM
link   
reply to post by MikeboydUS
 


i agree with your sentiment. in no way am i trying to proove anyone wrong, i'm only trying to show a side that was not covered in the o.p.
like my navaho friend says is their long tradition.
it doesn't matter who one is born too.
what matters is whether or not they are accepted as family.
due to marrige, adoption or whatever.
if your welcome into the clan or family for any reason, this makes you family.
race, color and creed not being important.

i'm not 100% on the torah being the difining element.
it's like saying you can not consider yourself christian if there is any part of the bible you do not believe is the absolute truth.
just because a few consrvative rabbis express a belief does not mean i can't take what they say with a grain of salt.
does a christian need to believe everything the pope says?

edit on 20-12-2010 by rubbertramp because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 11:46 AM
link   
reply to post by GirlGenius
 


They arn't supposed to do that. It clearly says one standard in the Torah.

At the same time though if she becomes more secular, doesn't keep the High Holy Days, then she's violating the Tribal Covenant. That could cause people to keep their distance as well.



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 11:55 AM
link   
reply to post by rubbertramp
 


I know that people want to say that the Pope is Christian, but that is the furthest from the truth.

Modern religion has become so amalgamized that it is becoming difficult to tell the two apart.
Catholicism has, at its heart, the worship of Mary.

This is no different than pagan Goddess worship.
And the Vatican promotes this.

The protestant reformation was supposedly about breaking free from this because it was not biblical.

The bible is interpreted in a manner known as hermeneutics and in order to clarify any misunderstandings in the Torah because of this, the Talmud was created.

I am not religious, but I have always been fascinated by its control over people with words on paper.

In order to be Christian, then someone must, more or less believe that the bible is the holy word of God and that Jesus is their Lord and Savior.
I have heard of "Chrisitans" who deny the bible when they learn how it was written and by whom, but Jesus must be an individua'ls Lord and Savior. That is undeniable.

Just as acceptance of the Torah in Judaism is what makes one Jewish.

A standard mush be applied or else said object does not exist.

As of late (the last century) Rabbinical Judaism has pushed for the matrilineal succession of the religion, but even this contradicts the Israeli "Law of Return", which states exactly what was sourced in my previous comment.



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 11:57 AM
link   
You can move to Japan and call yourself Japanese, but are you really Japanese?



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 12:03 PM
link   
reply to post by Josephus23
 


i understand your point, truly i do, but for me what it comes down to is ones personal belief.
i couldn't care less what a rabbi tells me i should believe and for what reasons.
same should got for any christian-catholic etc..........
it's what is in ones heart and mind on a personal level.
for instance, am i less of an american due to the fact that i disagree with most of what my government stands for?
may be a bad example, but i think one of the major problems with religion is that people tend to believe what they are told that they should and stop investigating things on their own.



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 12:04 PM
link   

Originally posted by Ghost374
You can move to Japan and call yourself Japanese, but are you really Japanese?


If a Japanese clan, say the Takeda Clan, adopts you and says you are part of their clan as long as you follow their Code, you will be of the Takeda Clan, regardless of who you are or where you came from.



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 12:06 PM
link   

Originally posted by Ghost374
You can move to Japan and call yourself Japanese, but are you really Japanese?


Yes it does make one Japanese if they apply for citizenship.

This doe not, however, make one Asian.

Judaism does not equal race.
That is a fallacy that has been pushed by the Zionists in Israel in order to promote the idea of "anti-semitism" in order to have some sort of protective shield to hide their behavior.

The big question is "what is the difference between Judaism and Zionism"?

The Zionists are the ones that want this. True Torah Judaism believes that they are a people without a state for a very specific reason. Converts.



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 12:12 PM
link   
reply to post by Ghost374
 


What does a nationality have to do with a religion? I would really like to know how you came to the conclusion that ''Jewish'' is in the same group as ''Japanese'' or ''Dutch'' or ''Kurdish'' or ''Afghan'' or ''American'' or ''English'' or ''German'', etc, etc.

So? Spill the beans...when did the religion become a nationality to you?



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 12:14 PM
link   
reply to post by Josephus23
 


You have to differentiate between the Zionists. Not all of them are the same.

Some are like you say, pushing for some bizarre far right secular nationalism, like Avigdor Lieberman.

Some are far left Marxists, the ones who started the first Kibbutzim.

Some are religious, who started their own counter Kibbutzim to the Marxists.

Some are good and some are bad. A Zionist is essentially a patriot of Israel. Compare to various American patriots. Some want fascism. Some want communism. Some want theocracy.



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 12:17 PM
link   
reply to post by Josephus23
 

Wow josephus, all asians are the same, huh?

And to the other person, what about the jewish state of israel, and the Israel that existed thousands of years ago?

Any group of people separated for a while, will start to have changes in their DNA.
It's the main idea of evolution, and as the OP said, Jews started as a separate tribe;
therefore they will have slight changes in their DNA.
I have nothing against jews, in fact I've been dating one for over a year. but facts are facts.




top topics



 
11
<<   2  3  4 >>

log in

join