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Poll: More Americans believe humans evolved without God

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posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 11:37 AM
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reply to post by TedHodgson
 


Now I'm really confused. Here's what you've said:



Well of course they do! If theres no God there no rules and people like to do whatever they want whenever they want
Maybe if half of them were "God-Fearing"...

I reconise relgion as Generic Beleif In something, But people no longer Fear their Gods, They just use them to justify their actions if you get what i mean

Im not a religious person either I just know the difference between right and wrong, And allways tend to do the right thing and sometimes at great cost to myself.



Seems like you’ve come full circle from fear of god being a requirement in order to do the right thing, to not being religious, but knowing the difference in right and wrong anyway. What am I missing…?




posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 11:40 AM
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Originally posted by peacevic
What am I missing…?


The point obviously



All morality is situational. Right and wrong are defined by your culture: Your parents, priests, police, teachers, lawyers, judges, books, rulers, doctors, etc. All those people with social authority, traditions, influences, define right and wrong.

There may be cases when they disagree, and we have interesting controversies about morality. But, if you can find no one to back-up your claim that something is right when everyone else says it is wrong, then that is called immorality.

answers.yahoo.com...

So clearly im been immoral by stating such things, But then again Everything is immoral in that sense

Touché, Myself

edit on 20/12/10 by TedHodgson because: (no reason given)

edit on Mon Dec 20 2010 by DontTreadOnMe because: IMPORTANT: Using Content From Other Websites on ATS



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 11:41 AM
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reply to post by Benevolent Heretic
 


To be honest, I don't always do the right thing and I definitely know the difference between right and wrong!

It would be so convenient to be able to shirk responsibility and say "the devil made me do it"

I place the blame squarely where it belongs on ME and my human frailties of lust, arrogance, greed, and plain ole stupidity.

The only fear that plays a role in keeping me on the straight and narrow is the fear of looking a fool. It only works part time though.



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 11:44 AM
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Looks like some have become to sophisticated for god,

I can embrace both god and science.
edit on 113131p://bMonday2010 by Stormdancer777 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 11:52 AM
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Originally posted by peacevic
What am I missing…?


Same thing I'm missing. I don't get it either.



Originally posted by Stormdancer777
Looks like some have become to sophisticated for god,


Sophistication (as I understand the meaning of the word) has nothing to do with it. I'm NOT sophisticated at all! LOL Maybe I don't understand exactly what you mean by sophisticated... If you mean:



having a refined knowledge of the ways of the world cultivated especially through wide experience


Maybe I am.



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 12:30 PM
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reply to post by TedHodgson
 





The point obviously

All morality is situational. Right and wrong are defined by your culture: Your parents, priests, police, teachers, lawyers, judges, books, rulers, doctors, etc. All those people with social authority, traditions, influences, define right and wrong.

There may be cases when they disagree, and we have interesting controversies about morality. But, if you can find no one to back-up your claim that something is right when everyone else says it is wrong, then that is called immorality.

So clearly im been immoral by stating such things, But then again Everything is immoral in that sense

Touché, Myself


Yes, I did miss the point. I think I still am. :-)

That said, your points immediately above are interesting even if I don’t understand them in context of your other statements. The absolute versus subjective morality would be an interesting discussion to continue in another thread.



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 12:32 PM
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reply to post by Stormdancer777
 





Looks like some have become to sophisticated for god,

I can embrace both god and science.


Like Benevolent Heretic - I am not sure what you mean by "too sophisticated for god".
I assume from your last statement (and the topic of this thread) that you do believe in evolution, but that a god had a hand in it?



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 01:10 PM
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This is a horrible indictment of the American education, as there is no good reason for people to not accept evolution. Of course, this could also be an indictment of a very vocal religious group that seeks to get rid of anything that doesn't conform to their narrow interpretation of an old holy book.



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 01:16 PM
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-from a different thread-

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
reply to post by Blue_Jay33
 


This is such a compelling indictment of the American education system. There is no good reason for 40% of Americans to utterly reject evolutionary biology.


Put it in context...its now reduced to 40% from what..100% at the founding of this country.

for a meme that has been going on for what...thousands upon thousands of years to see the numbers fall to just 40% (most of that recently) is a positive sign of rapid change.

You can't turn people rational overnight..but through generations of science and understanding, the old superstitions will wither and die.

The new pop now is guided evolution..a sort of master plan. This in itself dismisses all major religions foundation from literal translation to more of a "fun easy story to teach primitives", and will become more corrupted over time until the bible is in its rightful place as simply a philosophy book with some good ideas on how to choose principles and morals..right next to deepak chopra and how to win friends and influence people.

So, good sign overall.



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 01:27 PM
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reply to post by TedHodgson
 


I am a Christian and I think you are absolutely right in what you say about the world’s problems. I have said this same thing myself before, worded differently though.

Those that claim to worship God or their version of God often no longer fear said God any longer. It is the lack of fear of God that causes all of us to do wrong things. Admittedly I think it has something to do with even my own downfalls at times. Perhaps if we started fearing God for even what we view as the slightest sins we would sin less often.

As for the rest of the topic at hand I can think of no other reason for this aside from teaching the opposite of what religious texts teach. Again, this would be a sign of the lack of fear you brought up.

Good posts.

Raist



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 01:30 PM
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Originally posted by whaaa

Gallup reported that since 1982, the number of Americans believing that humans evolved over millions of years increased by seven percentage points.

The current figure - 16 percent - has trended upwards since 2000.


The real news here is that 84% of Americans still do not accept or understand evolution.
Sad. But at least it's slowly changing for the better...



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 01:51 PM
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I must admit to being surprised that the numbers aren’t higher than what they are. With our educational system being the main proselytizing mechanism for modern scientific paradigm, I would have thought evolution would be inching up toward the majority by now.
edit on 20-12-2010 by Klassified because: Redaction of extraneous content.



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 01:55 PM
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Originally posted by traditionaldrummer

Originally posted by whaaa

Gallup reported that since 1982, the number of Americans believing that humans evolved over millions of years increased by seven percentage points.

The current figure - 16 percent - has trended upwards since 2000.


The real news here is that 84% of Americans still do not accept or understand evolution.
Sad. But at least it's slowly changing for the better...


I would venture to say that another 50%+ don't know and don't care..



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 02:34 PM
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reply to post by beezzer
 



Evolution is nothing more than environmental stresses upon an organism. That organism has a genetic choice. Either adapt and survive or die.
That choice, even on a genetic level sounds like free will to me.


A bit of a misrepresentation... evolution is more than environmental stresses upon an organism - evolution is the rise and spread (and equally the rise and removal, fall and disappearance etc.) of new genes. Natural selection is the process by which environmental stressors sort those that can from those that can't, the goats from the sheep*.

The "choice", by the way, is not "adapt and survive or die". Phenotypic plasticity (read: not evolution) is a closer approximation to this, and that is more accurately calle "acclimatise and survive, or die".

Adaptation, and evolution through natural selection, occurs primarily through death. What separates those that can from those that can't, where it comes to natural selection, is not survival, it is survival to reproduction.

When the genes of a population have shifted in favour of those that can - because they have had more children than those that can't - it (the population) has adapted. In evolutionary terms, organisms don't adapt.


[size=-3] (NB - saying that adapting in an evolutionary context is free will is a bit - or a lot - like saying cystic fibrosis is free will. Do those people CHOOSE to have two copies of a mutant allele that would, if they did not receive medical care, probably kill them?)

* The biblical reference of the sheep and the goats is intentional. I think goats, which tend to be independent and quite a lot better at looking after themselves than sheep are, are a much more acceptable role model for society than sheep.



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 02:37 PM
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Originally posted by TedHodgson
reply to post by whaaa
 
Well of course they do! If theres no God there no rules and people like to do whatever they want whenever they want

Maybe if half of them were "God-Fearing" Then poeple wouldnt prance around with shovels of make-up On and the most revealing outfits, Poeple would know the difference between right And wrong and then the world would be a better place
Ok. As of my reading it, your post has 1 star. It reminds me of attitudes I've come across many times. I wonder if you'd be prepared to answer some Socratic questions, as an experiment, so that we can all discover what, if any, sense your above post makes?

1) What is the difference between right & wrong?

By all means, use examples to illustrate your view, but please begin by answering the question directly. We never know, we might be onto something here...



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 02:43 PM
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reply to post by Bunken Drum
 


Allready answerd that post earlier on in the thread


Burned:



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 03:00 PM
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Originally posted by Bunken Drum

1) What is the difference between right & wrong?

By all means, use examples to illustrate your view, but please begin by answering the question directly. We never know, we might be onto something here...


I wanna answer it!

The difference between right and wrong. My opinion and their opinion.

Example: I am right...they are wrong.

hopefully that clears everything up...if not I can use other examples..like reverse the order
They are wrong because I am right...



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 03:11 PM
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Originally posted by peacevic
reply to post by Stormdancer777
 

www.famous-poems.org...



Looks like some have become to sophisticated for god,

I can embrace both god and science.


Like Benevolent Heretic - I am not sure what you mean by "too sophisticated for god".
I assume from your last statement (and the topic of this thread) that you do believe in evolution, but that a god had a hand in it?



I couldn't begin to tell you what I believe, I only believe in possibilities,

and that all life is sacred and all living beings, spiritual manifestations.

Look higher, then—perchance—thou mayest—beyond
A hundred ever-rising mountain lines,
And past the range of Night and Shadow—see
The high-heaven dawn of more than mortal day
Strike on the Mount of Vision!

Alfred Tennyson

If thou would'st hear the Nameless, and wilt dive
Into the Temple-cave of thine own self,
There, brooding by the central altar, thou
May'st haply learn the Nameless hath a voice,
By which thou wilt abide, if thou be wise,
As if thou knewest, tho' thou canst not know;
For Knowledge is the swallow on the lake
That sees and stirs the surface-shadow there
But never yet hath dipt into the abysm,
The Abysm of all Abysms, beneath, within
The blue of sky and sea, the green of earth,
And in the million-millionth of a grain
Which cleft and cleft again for evermore,
And ever vanishing, never vanishes,
To me, my son, more mystic than myself,
Or even than the Nameless is to me.
And when thou sendest thy free soul thro' heaven,
Nor understandest bound nor boundlessness,
Thou seest the Nameless of the hundred names.
And if the Nameless should withdraw from all
Thy frailty counts most real, all thy world
Might vanish like thy shadow in the dark.

'And since -- from when this earth began --
The Nameless never came
Among us, never spake with man,
And never named the Name' --

Thou canst not prove the Nameless, O my son,
Nor canst thou prove the world thou movest in,
Thou canst not prove that thou art body alone,
Nor canst thou prove that thou art spirit alone,
Nor canst thou prove that thou art both in one:
Thou canst not prove thou art immortal, no
Nor yet that thou art mortal -- nay my son,
Thou canst not prove that I, who speak with thee,
Am not thyself in converse with thyself,
For nothing worthy proving can be proven,
Nor yet disproven: wherefore thou be wise,
Cleave ever to the sunnier side of doubt,
And cling to Faith beyond the forms of Faith
She reels not in the storm of warring words,
She brightens at the clash of 'Yes' and 'No',
She sees the Best that glimmers thro' the Worst,
She feels the Sun is hid but for a night,
She spies the summer thro' the winter bud,
She tastes the fruit before the blossom falls,
She hears the lark within the songless egg,


She finds the fountain where they wail'd 'Mirage'!
edit on 033131p://bMonday2010 by Stormdancer777 because: (no reason given)

edit on 033131p://bMonday2010 by Stormdancer777 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 03:15 PM
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Originally posted by TedHodgson
reply to post by whaaa
 


Well of course they do! If theres no God there no rules and people like to do whatever they want whenever they want

Maybe if half of them were "God-Fearing" Then poeple wouldnt prance around with shovels of make-up On and the most revealing outfits, Poeple would know the difference between right And wrong and then the world would be a better place


Ah yes,those pesky god fearing people and their wonderful morals....
I just love to look back at how their morals played into the crusades and spanish inquisition.

.


I think its simple,people dont need to look to a "god" they just need to remove their heads from their a$$es and act right.Take on responsibilities for your own actions.Without any doctrines from a "higher power".
edit on 20-12-2010 by Black_Fox because: SpELLinG



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 03:19 PM
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reply to post by Black_Fox
 


Agreed. People who are on good behavior just because they fear what god may do to them are scary indeed. In more ways than one...



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