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Everything's just a thing.

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posted on Dec, 19 2010 @ 11:51 PM
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I've started to notice something about the "thingness" of the world, the way most of us have come to see it and experience it, in terms of a type of obsession many, if not most people (including myself) seem to have, regarding their focal point of attention, and awareness.

It's like a distraction, always pulling us back to the material world of this and that, here and there, me and you, of this body and that one, with the "self" being percieved as some sort of byproduct of all this thingness, as the final "thing", but "who" (i should say which) is never satisfied with any one thing in particular! It's absurd.

I have a friend, a neighbor I spend time with, who's somewhat learning disabled, and he's always trying to move me and our conversation in this one direction only, and I used to go along with him in it all the way, getting all excited about the latest thing, craving, goal and objective, but it's all about some THING, all the way to the quality of our health and even of the SKIN, and how soft or glowy it may be lol, from taking this or that or doing this or that in order to "look good" or be percieved in such and such a way. Again, it's absurd!

So it got me to thinking, about the material vs. the spiritual, and I'm beginning to suspect that this one pointed obsession with things, any thing, so as to avoid just BEING in the present as sufficient in and of itself, is the great trap of the mind caught in a delusion about it's own essence as being thing-like, and purely matter-like. Of course no one's really to blame for this, it's the way we were trained to think about the world, the one assumption that we all begin with, that only the material is real, and if it cannot be percieved by the five sense, as a thing, then it just doesn't exist.

But what if we flipped that on it's head, and came to realize that no-thing in particular, or, the space of nothing which containts all things, isn't a "thing" at all, but a living consciousness and a process of being and becoming which is not contingent or dependant on any "thing" for its beingness, what would that look like and feel like, and if we can go there, what do we do with the mindless delusions of everyone else who are quite obviously trapped in a material world, and in a self-attached-to-things, existence..?

I can of course do nothing to help my friend out, short of making him "wrong" in some way and I'm not about to try to do that, and given that his own insecurities know NO BOUNDS, his focal point of attention and awareness will always be drawn or hijacked in this manner, for him in this life there is no cure, and I am then relegated, as his friend, to the position of having to lend my ear to all this nonsense, about how the next vitamin, or excercise thing, or this object or that, will complete him and make him happy. At the same time, I used to be just like that, and had once even deluded myself into believing, mistakenly, that one I got my new big screen TV and surround sound system in place, that my life would be complete (meanwhile I never even read the manual and figured out how to fully make use of the damn thing!).

So when you're in conversation "out there", just notice this tendency, to make of every THING, the sole object of life itself, when in reality, it's a kind of deathful life, which can never BEGIN with happiness, peace and satisfaction, but is instead forever DISTRACTED by every damn thing under the sun, except LIFE, as it really is.

Your thoughts?




posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 12:23 AM
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reply to post by NewAgeMan
 


The matter is nothing more than cells glued all together by the energy of life.
When cells are divided many times the final result is energy. We are energy . One could call thing.



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 12:31 AM
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I Think you are right on track! It's kinda like when you have something, then you lose it, only then you find out how special it was....but opposite. If we knew what it was to lose our own life. I am sure we would appreciate any existence than to have none at all.



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 12:37 AM
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reply to post by MightyWizard
 

I understand what you're saying, but are "we" in our conscious awareness, really nothing more than an "it"? A "thing"?
Is mind just an epiphenomena of matter, as an emergent evolutionary process, or instead, is maybe everthing arising from consciousness itself as the ground of being.
I guess it's a chicken or an egg scenario.

I've heard that the only resolution to the quantum paradoxes is the idea of a Monistic Idealism (consciousness is primary) as opposed to a purely Newtonian Materalist Monism (matter alone is primary).

I have a hard time thinking that we are an "it" or a thing, it just doesn't "grok" and doesn't seem to be in alignment with our felt experience, when unattached to the thingness of existence. There's more to it than that.

Albeit we do seem to have an "itself" mind, or the recording of "things" past, which tries to tell us that "it" is who we are, via that run on stream of thoughts and impressions, but that's just not the whole story I don't think..

It would be interesting if the materialist monist viewpoint becomes no longer valid as a framework for understanding existence and our place in it, if that POV were to pass away, and it makes me wonder about what the other frame of reference would be like, to be emersed wihtin an unconditioned ground of being transcendant of the material world..

Fear would pass away with it, I do believe, along with all these attachments, and what would remain might just take our breath away, and cause us to rejoice.

I cannot help but intuit that that worldview is fast passing away, but that most people will continue to go on talking about things, attached, and unwilling to leave all that behind in favour of a new way of being and of thinking.



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 12:37 AM
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The only thing we can be philosophically sure of is that at least one thing exists.



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 12:39 AM
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I would narrow all those "things" down even further and rather than consider each one as a thing, consider everything as just "stuff".

One lot of STUFF.



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 12:42 AM
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reply to post by Smokinmirrors
 

The latest "message" on the Church sign beside my house, goes something like

"Life is the destiny we are bound to refuse, until we consent to die."

And why that makes me want to laugh out loud, I cannot say.



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 12:45 AM
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Originally posted by MightyWizard
reply to post by NewAgeMan
 


The matter is nothing more than cells glued all together by the energy of life.
When cells are divided many times the final result is energy. We are energy . One could call thing.


Yes, We are all energy like you stated. All these particles make us a original battery of negative and positive atoms.

We are all spiritual people on a journey of epic proportions. The Soul is fundermentally a positive entity of water which encounters negative energy in life while learning in the domain of Fire.



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 12:56 AM
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Is there anything "wrong" per se, aside from the religious connotations, with the idea of Spirit being a type of first/last cause?
Why do we avoid that idea, in favour of some form of materialism? Why does it make us, or some of us, so uncomfortable?

I was once told that the "truth" is that we're just meaning making machines, and when I suggested that there's a ghost in the machine, I was accused of some sort of blasphemy, and of introducing a very dangerous propostion.


I think, or suspect, that there's a terrifying fear on the part of the "itself" mind, which will go to any lengths to prevent the final realization of spirit, wherein that "itself" shall be put to rest.

It has something to do with the way our bicameral mind works I think, something to do with duality or our impression of the existance being dual, even divided in some way between matter and spirit.

I've concluded that matter is a manifestation of spirit as the first/last cause or the alpha and omega of existence, but that our minds became distracted by the illusion of matter and of separation, of "thingness".

And all the spiritual traditions of the ages, for the most part, say the very same thing.

I sense that the ancient wisdom is coming back, and that even in our own lifetime, will begin the re-enchantment of the cosmos, as a manifestation of spirit, of which we are it's highest expression, like consciousness catching up with the original consciousness, allowing us to at long last declare our birthright in a new domain of everlasting life and freedom, and joy, added to which everything else is merely an added bonus of sorts.

"Place your hearts first on the kingdom of heaven, and all these things will be added unto you."

maybe such statements are not so foolish or ignorant after all..?


edit on 20-12-2010 by NewAgeMan because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 12:58 AM
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You know I have had this fever to get rid of things this past year. I started because I was going to move. After I moved it just kept on . . . It just felt so darn good to get rid of stuff. I pruned realtionships down too. Nothing fake, nothing extra. Each time I did this I had this burst of feeling great inner space and that created such a deep sense of joy. Then I started to question myself about why it felt so good. Do I sense the end, as in my end? Then I thought, well if it is almost the end of me . . . who cares? Maybe that's a kind of freedom too. I think it boils down to catching non-attachment fever, and discovering how pleasant that really is.



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 01:05 AM
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reply to post by TheBirdisDone
 


Nice! Yeah you get it, you "grok" it.

I too have felt in the past, the way certain revelations kept coming to me, that I was surely soon to die, but now, I realize that's not the case, there's just some sort of "quickening" going on, to help move humanity in favour of its true destiny, one which is so utterly incongruent with the world the way we THOUGHT it was, that to begin embracing these things, gives you the impression of an impending death, but it's not the end of the world, only the end of the world as we KNEW it, that whole worldview and paradigm is fast passing away, but people would be wise, particularly if that's the case, to begin loosening their attachments, because there will be many who will turn back and away from the new reality in favour of those stupid THINGS, and they'll miss out, big time. That's the sense I have.

It will be particularly hard on Americans in general, given their very strongly entrenched materalist, consumer driven society, and the model of the "century of the self" for the world.

"Who who has will be given more, and he who has not, even what he thinks he has, will be taken away."

There's a having on the other side of having THINGS, something infinitely greater I sense. And it's a very very happy thing to have I think, and I want MORE of that!



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 01:20 AM
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Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by TheBirdisDone
 


Nice! Yeah you get it, you "grok" it.

I too have felt in the past, the way certain revelations kept coming to me, that I was surely soon to die, but now, I realize that's not the case, there's just some sort of "quickening" going on, to help move humanity in favour of its true destiny, one which is so utterly incongruent with the world the way we THOUGHT it was, that to begin embracing these things, gives you the impression of an impending death, but it's not the end of the world, only the end of the world as we KNEW it, that whole worldview and paradigm is fast passing away, but people would be wise, particularly if that's the case, to begin loosening their attachments, because there will be many who will turn back and away from the new reality in favour of those stupid THINGS, and they'll miss out, big time. That's the sense I have.

It will be particularly hard on Americans in general, given their very strongly entrenched materalist, consumer driven society, and the model of the "century of the self" for the world.

"Who who has will be given more, and he who has not, even what he thinks he has, will be taken away."

There's a having on the other side of having THINGS, something infinitely greater I sense. And it's a very very happy thing to have I think, and I want MORE of that!




People become wise during life due the lessons they learned in life! We all want to feel like we are making a purpose for other people and assisting them in their endevours, this is life.
All cultures and people have assisted others to achieve what we have today. This is our positive self of spirit attempting to help others.
The line you used of "who has will be given more, and he who has not, even what he thinks he has, will be taken away." is true. All people who give to others will be rewarded and those who are individual and think of themself will have the ultimate gift of eternal life taken away.
We all die one day. Our positive thinking in all religions gives us the gift of love and respect for everything from plants, animals to others and oneself!



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 02:47 AM
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Just got back from the corner store with my friend and neighbor. We played a bit of Keno, which we probably shouldn't to begin with (although he assured me that the "whole world is playing keno!"..) and when we were sitting there, and he was being drawn to this and that, unrelentingly, I turned to him and said "you know ______, everything's just a thing, there's really nothing at all to be distracted by" and he looked at my as if horrified for a moment, and then said, "but what about all the material stuff OUT THERE (gesturing to the world outside the store we were in), you just can't not be distracted by all that material stuff, no WAY!" and then back he went, the talk jumping from the food he ate, to this and that, etc. etc. Don't get me wrong here, I'm not trying to down my friend. I accept him for who he is, and a lot of the time, he's probably just trying to impress me with one thing or another, and to move me with these things, which just can't move me any more. I think he suspects that I am going crazy, just allowing my mind to "sit" without having any major train of thought, while encouraging him to stop thinking! Funny, from his perspective, I must seem like a bit of an airhead, to think that it might be possible to stop thinking and just be, he can't understand why I can't go along with all these distractions any more.

What's wrong with just BEING with people. Why must they ALWAYS fill the silence with thing-talk..?

We used to know how to just sit and be with people without talking. I long for those days to return. Only problem is, now everyone'll be texting in an abbreviated, devolved form of the English language, to people they hardly know, while perhaps raising a finger that they'll be with us any moment..!



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 03:00 AM
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Originally posted by NewAgeMan
Just got back from the corner store with my friend and neighbor. We played a bit of Keno, which we probably shouldn't to begin with (although he assured me that the "whole world is playing keno!"..) and when we were sitting there, and he was being drawn to this and that, unrelentingly, I turned to him and said "you know ______, everything's just a thing, there's really nothing at all to be distracted by" and he looked at my as if horrified for a moment, and then said, "but what about all the material stuff OUT THERE (gesturing to the world outside the store we were in), you just can't not be distracted by all that material stuff, no WAY!" and then back he went, the talk jumping from the food he ate, to this and that, etc. etc. Don't get me wrong here, I'm not trying to down my friend. I accept him for who he is, and a lot of the time, he's probably just trying to impress me with one thing or another, and to move me with these things, which just can't move me any more. I think he suspects that I am going crazy, just allowing my mind to "sit" without having any major train of thought, while encouraging him to stop thinking! Funny, from his perspective, I must seem like a bit of an airhead, to think that it might be possible to stop thinking and just be, he can't understand why I can't go along with all these distractions any more.
What's wrong with just BEING with people. Why must they ALWAYS fill the silence with thing-talk..?

We used to know how to just sit and be with people without talking. I long for those days to return. Only problem is, now everyone'll be texting in an abbreviated, devolved form of the English language, to people they hardly know, while perhaps raising a finger that they'll be with us any moment..!



New Age Man, you are just that! You are someone who responds to people without talking or physical communication. All people have the ablility to understand each other on a psychic level. This is thinking of the internal soul or spirit of all! You are this my friend but are just understanding the meaning. Not all people will understand because they don't want to. The people who know will always know!



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 03:30 AM
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reply to post by Archangelelijah
 

Well, I'm not all "that", in truth, yet, or maybe I am but just starting out, "baby steps" - heh, reminds of the movie "What about Bob" where Richard Dryfus plays a renowned psychologist, with Bill Murray as his patient Bob who causes the psychiatrist to go completely insane! Now THAT was funny!

And it is the kind of realization, in the midst of this world which might, at first contact (with Bob's innocence and simplicity), drive a man insane, unleashing the spirit, and the narcissus of the ego out into the world to see it's own reflection reflected everywhere, and some people here might know what I'm talking about, that "dark night of the soul" attempting to grapple with the incongruity of the world in which we were raised, and the way our minds were moulded to work, when that world and way of thinking and being is no longer workable or functional and one against which we MUST rebel at all cost, even at the very cost of our own sanity! I've been there done that got the t-shirt as they say, and what an unusual experience it was.

Then at some point along the way, when all the pieces of the puzzle start fitting together, you come to see, as if for the first time, that you were never insane to begin with, everyone ELSE is! And that's ok too, but, it's a heck of a reframe, placing most everyone else in the mental ward for their dark night of the soul..! So I'm here, reporting back to say that there was never anything to fear in the first place! In fact, the joke is on you, but at my expense.



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 03:50 AM
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Just so you don't start thinking I'm crazy.. for asking you to try on this reframe for size, and liberty and humor I might add.

Let me pose it in the form of a question or a challenge, just to keep things interesting

Who among us, can step outside of themselves (meditators here will know what I mean by this) and call themselves, the aware, observing no-self-self, an "it" or a "thing"..?

So when we look around, there is no THING, but it's not nothing either!

Oh dear, I'm beginning to get the impression that Buddha must have been on mushrooms or something.. because I'm starting to feel a "flashback" coming on here..! I get the same feeling when I watch Terrance McKenna videos on Youtube.



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 04:05 AM
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Originally posted by NewAgeMan
Just so you don't start thinking I'm crazy.. for asking you to try on this reframe for size, and liberty and humor I might add.

Let me pose it in the form of a question or a challenge, just to keep things interesting

Who among us, can step outside of themselves (meditators here will know what I mean by this) and call themselves, the aware, observing no-self-self, an "it" or a "thing"..?

So when we look around, there is no THING, but it's not nothing either!

Oh dear, I'm beginning to get the impression that Buddha must have been on mushrooms or something.. because I'm starting to feel a "flashback" coming on here..! I get the same feeling when I watch Terrance McKenna videos on Youtube.


WW3 will be every person in the world understanding the surroundings we live in. We are all positive people which is why water forms here on earth to create life.

If you consider the water which creates life as positive and is 0pt energy, everything else is knowedge and learning in which we become wise from. As I have stated, everything on Earth is Fire. This is biblical and states that we all meet negative aspects in life. Our spirit is positive. Christians baptised themself with water for this reason! Jesus stated he was everything and nothing.

All living sysytems work under a triangle or pyramid operation. The top supports the bottom ( Presidents, Kings, Queens, Captains, Bosses ect ) and the bottom supports the top in labour which is the general public who are kept in the dark. We have achieved this point of evolution by thinking of eachother.

Banks and money are formed under the same operation. The Individual familys that owned the Banks of there country commenced trade for the people of their country. The rich are at the top of the triangle and the poor at the bottom!



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 12:32 PM
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reply to post by Archangelelijah
 


What u call soul I call spirit, everything that have matter has one soul , but humans ( in my view ) have spirits.

to add that humans have a soul and a spirit, soul been the breath of life.
edit on 20-12-2010 by MightyWizard because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 09:02 PM
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reply to post by MightyWizard
 

Perhaps Spirit, when the illusion falls away, in truth is all that is left..?

Just one undifferentiated whole, leaving playful creativity and joy and happiness as the only thing worth having or doing. Maybe everything is ok, and is unfolding just as it should, even through suffering and sorrow, as a learning experience..

I think the obsession with all the "things" of the world, is just a mass delusion, something we can break through, where freedom and love and authentic loving kindness is what arises on the other side of thingness.. in acceptance of what is.

I find it a little strange, as a Christian, to find myself wanting to explore Hinduism and Buddhism as that which completes my faith, and continually informs it.

I feel so alone.

As if the greatest discovery of of all time, is something that no one has any interest in or use for, having been completely indoctrinated into the materialist monist POV, of me and you, of this and that, here and there, of having or not having.

So I'm happy to be starting to reach for the end of this part of the journey, but saddened to find no one or almost no one there, to share in the experience.

It's funny, you wish everyone would come alone with you, but in seeing no one there, you have to go back, and "fit in" and be "normal", but it's hard to get remotivated for things and stuff as being the stuff of life.



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 10:09 PM
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Oh you are far from alone. Maybe alone in your nieghborhood so to speak but the world is a very big place. I read what you have posted about your friendship - it seems this person is rubbing you a certain way because you realize you have outgrown this relationship and you don't know what that means. I think you are kind hearted and confused because you tend to attempt your best at being loyal and it doesn't set right with you to sort of wean this person out of your life.
If you are beginning a sort of existential crisis . . . and moving towards non attachment, at first it will seem everything is in reshuffle. There might even be a distracting level of guilt about it. This is understandable and speaks to a kindness of heart and spirit. It is OK to release people from your life lovingly.
I did this with a long complicated relationship, I finally decided it was best not continuing. You can put yourself through H*ll agonizing the details. The space created when I lovingly said goodbye was immeasurable.
It seems you are longing for similar minded people to associate with so you are not so lonely on this journey.
Request that in your prayer or meditation, see yourself drawing in the people you need to help you grow. It is frightening to let go of the familar and you face multiple levels of resistance, and yet once the questing cat is let out of the bag it is very difficult to get it to go back in there. So go ahead, take a look at the new age books at the book store, take a ride to the crystal selling store, watch some mind bending videos on you tube - be not afraid to explore. If this is too much, to far out of your comfort zone there are Christians that practice non attachment and prudent lifestyle . . . they are called Quakers - perhaps you should try a meeting of friends, google search to see if there is a meeting in your area.
As I close I want to share a group of sentences I happened upon that resonated deeply with me in regard to my own journey:
On THINKING
Thinking might require going against the main stream
Thinking might require giving up long held beliefs
Thinking might require giving up important social relationships

I will add that it is not for the faint of heart but it is so worth it to draw close to bliss.
Bliss is a way of being . . . certainly not things.



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