It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Thank you.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
The High-jacked Forum
page: 6share:
reply to post by getreadyalready
This is a conspiracy forum, this sub forum is about secret societies hereunder Freemasons.
What you are advocating you can get, by joining any number of the Freemasonic forums that are on the internet.
Calling anti-masonic theorists silly is to good of an argument to counter, you sir have proven that Freemasons are good upstanding citizens all the way!
My 10 years of research has been thrown out of the window! I have seen the light, thank you sir.
This is a conspiracy forum, this sub forum is about secret societies hereunder Freemasons.
What you are advocating you can get, by joining any number of the Freemasonic forums that are on the internet.
Calling anti-masonic theorists silly is to good of an argument to counter, you sir have proven that Freemasons are good upstanding citizens all the way!
My 10 years of research has been thrown out of the window! I have seen the light, thank you sir.
Originally posted by JoshNorton
No Mason here has denied that.
Originally posted by Schrödinger
But it is not always just a simple truth, you refuse to accept the fact, that truth is subjective!
I'm sure there are. In fact, I guarantee it. I make no claims to be omniscient. I'll leave that to God... you know, the guy we depict with the all seeing eye.
And that there could be things going on in the secret societies that you aren't aware off.
Nonsense. We claim to have a truth, and we base our truth on our experience, and our experience within the lodge is by its very nature more informative about what goes on in the lodge room than a truth based on someone who's never set foot within a hundred feet of a lodge room.
You valse in and think you are the ultimate arbiters and keepers of "the real truth" and therefore insist that you have the last word in every debate about the structure of the secret societies.
Bzzzzt!!!! You can't have it both ways. The truth can't be both subjective AND obvious. My truth is obvious to me, and your truth is obvious to you, but they're obviously not the same truth...
The truth is obvious...
I'll go one step further and say that the Masons on ATS are more often than not trying to get the naysayers off their butts to go out and find your own truth. Stop taking YouTube videos as "proof" of anything. Recognize when baseless claims are baseless, and if you think there's any truth to them, find the base that would support that position, or if you find it's not there, build up a truth for yourself based on what you DO find with your own investigation.
It's really the only way to deny ignorance...
edit on 2010.12.21 by JoshNorton because: (no reason given)
I can quote many a mason debating against Masonic Light about the subjectiveness of TRUTH!
All seeing eye is many things don't play me for a fool, I don't like that, and will take my toys and leave.
Viscis Pisces? Eye of Ra? just to name a few.
So what you are basically saying is the same old argument, I am a mason, I have been to A lodge, therefore I know better than you, what goes on in ANY lodge.
Stop talking to me like I am some masonry watch kid, that is spoon fed on youtube, because I am not!
EDIT: Should not post when blood sugar is low Ignore the tone of the post!
edit on 21-12-2010 by Schrödinger because: (no reason
given)
Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas
Lies through obfuscation, lies...[snip]
......They choke off fair trade, fair business practices for all in their favor only, and keep honest people who have no interest in belonging to their ilk from making good businesses run by oppressionist tactics, spreading lies about those businessmen, and basically using Mafia tactics through R.I.C.O. Act offenses with Government sanctioning and or interactions.
Just
Would you, could you be so kind as to cite particular chapter and verse as to where you dug up these nuggets of....of......Coprolite?
And did you actually mean to say that honest business people that Masons don't accept make "good businesses run by oppressionist tactics"?
Sounds like these business people are good ones to be wary of and more likely to be familiar with "Mafia tactics" than any Mason.
Ever get to the end of a thread, and forget what the OP was about specifically
Oh yeah........................I remember now......... Yep this place is like the spooky attic of ATS.
Happy holidays fellas.
Oh yeah........................I remember now......... Yep this place is like the spooky attic of ATS.
Happy holidays fellas.
reply to post by Schrödinger
Great news I don't have to guess, Department heads and their cheif deputies have connections to the Shadow Government, I am familiar with the appointment process and who appoints them.
Rule number 1. People who use the 'straw man' argument are actually thinking investigating conspiracies is a debate, really should just join a debate society.
One of the most powerful places in the world where key decisions are made that are going to affect your life take place every summer at the Bohemian Grove Annex in Yosemite during the month long retreat that members, their guests and some of the most powerful people in the world are invited too.
Who founded the Bohemian Club, the Press did! As a result of San Francisco being culturally backwards during the Gold Rush.
Think it's a little suspect that that place where almost every President of the United States is selected was founded by the Press?
Don't underestimate the power of the press, as information is power and he who controls it and it's flow has power.
They have indirect ties, in the world of high intrique and intelligence there is a thing called a 'cut out'. Being removed by one or two degrees is essential to maintaining your power as a Puppet Master.
What you believe is not relevant, how the power structure operates is though.
As stated I am not a Mason and I can assure you I am not in the bottom hiearchy of anything.
Unbeknownst to most Masons and most anti-Mason conspiracy theorist they basically are a clandestine equivelant of a support network where most of the time they are not even aware they are being used as a support network.
Lets flip it to a government open oganization a moment the FBI. If I am a Federal Agent I can show up at any FBI Office in the nation/world with the right credentials and get certain things. A weapon, local intelligence, a place to stay, a car, a cover ID, etc.
The Masons are little different, let's say I need to show up in Des Moines and need some similiar things, with the right credentials and letters of introduction I am going to be able to precure a local guide, tranpsportation, lodging, a cover story, and be able to do a number of things 'off the books as a result'.
The local masons just think they are helping out a fellow brother, they have no idea though what they are helping him do though, nor in most cases would they suspect or ask.
The Masons are a support network, very similiar to the FBI or the Chatholic Church.
I can tell a meter maid where her fine money is going, or a census worker what it's really being used for, and in most cases they will even thank me, and agree with me, and be very appreciative of this, however the next day they are still likely to be handing out parking tickets and filling out census forms.
Not particuarly interested in the poorly researched and angrily put forth series of those in conspiracy school 101, Proto as most will tell you is after slightly bigger game.
Considering your registration date on the site is 7/8/10 you aren't even in a good position to prove your 7 years on ATS.
No I doubt you know what Masonry is all about, you have read some sites, from some people who have some theories, and you know bully for you.
Even the highest Masons don't really know what Masonry is about because well...it hasn't been fully explained to them yet.
So no, if they don't know, you don't know, what you imagine you feel you know. This is called perspective, and you are very much entitled to one, however if you want to win friends and influence enemies you should really buy and read the book by that title.
Just saying.
It's not actually a hypothetical I have seen very similiar interactions take place on these boards. In this case I used one that was less far fetched and rediculous for the sake of brevity and to be fairer to the people who let imagination get away from them.
Please do keep in mind where you are on a site where one of the biggest threads last month was from a person making a outrageous prediction based on a Simpsons Cartoon Episode. Even when the prediction was wrong, it spun off another thread where many of the same members insisted that they now knew the right date and milked it for all the attention they could get.
No real world, real time research was done, it was all based off of a youtube video and as a dedicated conspiracy theorist not only was I embarassed by their methodology and more specifically their lack of it, but how many people were willing to imagine their worst fears as absolute truths. By the way the Masons factored in that thread too, a thread so rediculous I don't think any self respecting Mason even bothered to show up and counter the charges.
The charge being that every Sunday Night Masons gather around their TV's to watch for special Masonic Codes written into the Simpson's cartoons.
Believe me my example was quite kind.
Reading comprehension is not everyone's forte, go figure, what I did is provide 'a' example based on 'real' occurences, when people who call themselves conspiracy theorists (which I would not be so flattering in describing them) make complete blithering fools out of themselves by postulating absolute paranoid insane drivel, and in some cases because a Mason interested in the esoteric happens to be on the thread dealing with esoteric elements they will actuall profer the factual common sense answer.
I further predicated this by explaining I have attended the Grove retreat on occassion and have witnessed first hand a good number of things that take place there and have been friends with Bohemian Club Members and witnessed first hand the things they do when and when not letting their hair down.
Self evidence is the most powerful form of evidence, and believe me when I say I am not easily fooled or duped and my deductive powers rarely fail me. Not saying I am perfect, but I can tell the difference between a group of people feeding a puppy and those who have ill intent towards a puppy.
This has nothing to do with being pro-Mason, I would never join the Masons, nor would I want to ever join the Masons.
Will I consult with Masons? Yes, I would consult with the devil himself if he had information I was interested in obtaining.
Business is business.
Hopefully these multiple accounts have more to do with just your belief that your 5 month membership is a 7 year membership based on terminated accounts.
This is what most people don't get about information. This is what most people don't get about Wiki-leaks either, highly secret and rare information is only as useful as the hands of the person it is in, and if they have they power and ability to put it to proper use.
Anyone in theory might be able to get some bit of incriminating evidence on David De Rothschild, very few people could get close enough or within the circle he travels in to play that card for maximum effect.
Railing at a bunch of ATS Masons online with what you think you know about them has all the effect of the starless posts you are racking up suggest.
It's not changing a thing, it's placing you in an advesarial position, and blindly attacking anyone who doesn't agree with your methedology, quality of information, and ability to put it to wise use, certainly is not going to win you many allies, and will probably prevent you from recieving the most highly sought after Item on ATS at the moment "The Proto 2010 Christmas Card".
Yet we should trust your research? Obviously what you are saying is if people are telling you what 'you' want to hear, they you will give it a gander, if people aren't though, you have no patience for it.
You might want to check out this band they call the Rolling Stones "Where you can't always get what you want, but if you try some times you find, you might get what you need".
How would you know this, since you didn't read the whole post, I might have consigned them to Dantes 9th Level of Hell by the end.
Proto works in very mysterious ways you know!
Sounds like you have changed doctors and maybe switched your meds, I think it's time for another checkup, just saying.
You know just the other week I agreed to meet a fan who was in town in person and later they called me up and accused me of not coming myself and sending a stand in.
I am guessing lots of people are switching doctors this time of year???
You should see how nice Turkey Farmers are to their flocks right before the Thanksgiving Holiday!
Really I don't find those voice recognition typing programs to work very well at all.
This is a big problem and probably explains a lot of your delima, Proto is typically just about every body's favorite poster on ATS.
Though of course naturally some people are afraid to admit it.
They don't make you wear their pictures in those beaded pendants around your kneck and buy them Rolls Royces like some of those Indian Swami's demand do they?
They are just excited to see me is all! A lot of them put on their Christmas Avatars and everything.
The truth is strong OP's with real content don't allow their threads to be derailed. My signature thread is in it's 7th month running, generates on average two pages of fresh content a day and I have defeated no fewer than a dozen organized attacks on the thread.
On the other hand if I decide to hijack a thread, it's the best thing that could happen to the Original Poster, it will go on as long as I want to participate, it will atrract the attention of people who want to see what I am posting on, it will provide opportunities for high quality topical discussions that would never take place.
The original post is poorly thought out, lacks examples, and minimal participation from the thread starter.
What do you want us to do, all sit around and wait for them to say something brilliant against all odds?
Burn Masonic effigees because you read a few internet sites.
Anyway my posts have been highly topical, the title clearly states High-Jacked forum. This happens to be mispelled by the way and suggest that a forum was first high and then stolen.
Hijacked Forum though would in fact be all about Hijacking a thread, and no one is better than hijacking a thread than me.
So I have provided some classic examples on how to hijack a forum.
I really deserve some applause I think.
By the way, what's this thread about anyway?
Of these federal commissions, institutions, federal reserves and ABC bureau's etc. How many of the people involved with these, would you guess are connected to a secret society?
Great news I don't have to guess, Department heads and their cheif deputies have connections to the Shadow Government, I am familiar with the appointment process and who appoints them.
so pulling a straw man on me, and saying oh look the federal reserve is much more corrupt that the Freemasons, really does not help your argument.
Rule number 1. People who use the 'straw man' argument are actually thinking investigating conspiracies is a debate, really should just join a debate society.
I agree that the media have been infiltrated and today control public opinion, they chose what is aired and what is not, they create allot of peoples realities, spoon feeding the ideas and agendas en masse!
One of the most powerful places in the world where key decisions are made that are going to affect your life take place every summer at the Bohemian Grove Annex in Yosemite during the month long retreat that members, their guests and some of the most powerful people in the world are invited too.
Who founded the Bohemian Club, the Press did! As a result of San Francisco being culturally backwards during the Gold Rush.
Think it's a little suspect that that place where almost every President of the United States is selected was founded by the Press?
Don't underestimate the power of the press, as information is power and he who controls it and it's flow has power.
I also believe that the powerful men that composes the top elite of the world, have direct ties to secret societies.
They have indirect ties, in the world of high intrique and intelligence there is a thing called a 'cut out'. Being removed by one or two degrees is essential to maintaining your power as a Puppet Master.
What you believe is not relevant, how the power structure operates is though.
And you misunderstand something completely, I do not think that the Freemasons are the top of the pyramid, I actually speculate that you are in the bottom of the hierarchy in the world of secret societies.
As stated I am not a Mason and I can assure you I am not in the bottom hiearchy of anything.
Blue lodge is obviously the entry barrier, where you sought through the various scrubs that apply. Then they are filtered through either the York or the Scottish rite! Then they advance up the line to things like Knights Templars, Rose Croix etc, and then on to even more secret and prestigious societies, are they deemed worthy!
Unbeknownst to most Masons and most anti-Mason conspiracy theorist they basically are a clandestine equivelant of a support network where most of the time they are not even aware they are being used as a support network.
Lets flip it to a government open oganization a moment the FBI. If I am a Federal Agent I can show up at any FBI Office in the nation/world with the right credentials and get certain things. A weapon, local intelligence, a place to stay, a car, a cover ID, etc.
The Masons are little different, let's say I need to show up in Des Moines and need some similiar things, with the right credentials and letters of introduction I am going to be able to precure a local guide, tranpsportation, lodging, a cover story, and be able to do a number of things 'off the books as a result'.
The local masons just think they are helping out a fellow brother, they have no idea though what they are helping him do though, nor in most cases would they suspect or ask.
The Masons are a support network, very similiar to the FBI or the Chatholic Church.
THIS IS A THEORY! IT IS NOT PRESENTED AS FACT; AND YOU HAVE NO FACT THAT DISPROVES THIS! ERGO THIS IS NOT DEBUNKED!
I can tell a meter maid where her fine money is going, or a census worker what it's really being used for, and in most cases they will even thank me, and agree with me, and be very appreciative of this, however the next day they are still likely to be handing out parking tickets and filling out census forms.
Not particuarly interested in the poorly researched and angrily put forth series of those in conspiracy school 101, Proto as most will tell you is after slightly bigger game.
You make the claim about ultimate arbiters indirectly!
I have seen it over the 7 years I have been here on ATS, your main argument is; YOU ARE NOT MASON ERGO YOU KNOW NOT WHAT MASON IS!
Considering your registration date on the site is 7/8/10 you aren't even in a good position to prove your 7 years on ATS.
No I doubt you know what Masonry is all about, you have read some sites, from some people who have some theories, and you know bully for you.
Even the highest Masons don't really know what Masonry is about because well...it hasn't been fully explained to them yet.
So no, if they don't know, you don't know, what you imagine you feel you know. This is called perspective, and you are very much entitled to one, however if you want to win friends and influence enemies you should really buy and read the book by that title.
Just saying.
Your hypothetical situation is so biased towards the mason, that it is a joke really!
It's not actually a hypothetical I have seen very similiar interactions take place on these boards. In this case I used one that was less far fetched and rediculous for the sake of brevity and to be fairer to the people who let imagination get away from them.
Please do keep in mind where you are on a site where one of the biggest threads last month was from a person making a outrageous prediction based on a Simpsons Cartoon Episode. Even when the prediction was wrong, it spun off another thread where many of the same members insisted that they now knew the right date and milked it for all the attention they could get.
No real world, real time research was done, it was all based off of a youtube video and as a dedicated conspiracy theorist not only was I embarassed by their methodology and more specifically their lack of it, but how many people were willing to imagine their worst fears as absolute truths. By the way the Masons factored in that thread too, a thread so rediculous I don't think any self respecting Mason even bothered to show up and counter the charges.
The charge being that every Sunday Night Masons gather around their TV's to watch for special Masonic Codes written into the Simpson's cartoons.
Believe me my example was quite kind.
And your claim, that anyone critical of the secret society structure (hereunder; masonry) is a loon, devoid of logical and rational thought, therefore the mason is right, just reeks of pro-masonic propaganda.
Reading comprehension is not everyone's forte, go figure, what I did is provide 'a' example based on 'real' occurences, when people who call themselves conspiracy theorists (which I would not be so flattering in describing them) make complete blithering fools out of themselves by postulating absolute paranoid insane drivel, and in some cases because a Mason interested in the esoteric happens to be on the thread dealing with esoteric elements they will actuall profer the factual common sense answer.
I further predicated this by explaining I have attended the Grove retreat on occassion and have witnessed first hand a good number of things that take place there and have been friends with Bohemian Club Members and witnessed first hand the things they do when and when not letting their hair down.
Self evidence is the most powerful form of evidence, and believe me when I say I am not easily fooled or duped and my deductive powers rarely fail me. Not saying I am perfect, but I can tell the difference between a group of people feeding a puppy and those who have ill intent towards a puppy.
This has nothing to do with being pro-Mason, I would never join the Masons, nor would I want to ever join the Masons.
Will I consult with Masons? Yes, I would consult with the devil himself if he had information I was interested in obtaining.
Business is business.
I always investigate a source, ALWAYS! Again stating that anyone critical of masonry, does not check their sources from multiple accounts, is just plain wrong.
Hopefully these multiple accounts have more to do with just your belief that your 5 month membership is a 7 year membership based on terminated accounts.
This is what most people don't get about information. This is what most people don't get about Wiki-leaks either, highly secret and rare information is only as useful as the hands of the person it is in, and if they have they power and ability to put it to proper use.
Anyone in theory might be able to get some bit of incriminating evidence on David De Rothschild, very few people could get close enough or within the circle he travels in to play that card for maximum effect.
Railing at a bunch of ATS Masons online with what you think you know about them has all the effect of the starless posts you are racking up suggest.
It's not changing a thing, it's placing you in an advesarial position, and blindly attacking anyone who doesn't agree with your methedology, quality of information, and ability to put it to wise use, certainly is not going to win you many allies, and will probably prevent you from recieving the most highly sought after Item on ATS at the moment "The Proto 2010 Christmas Card".
I really stopped reading your reply, I was actually getting nauseous!
Yet we should trust your research? Obviously what you are saying is if people are telling you what 'you' want to hear, they you will give it a gander, if people aren't though, you have no patience for it.
You might want to check out this band they call the Rolling Stones "Where you can't always get what you want, but if you try some times you find, you might get what you need".
You are lifting masons up to some pedestal, and completely ignoring any critical thinking in the process.
How would you know this, since you didn't read the whole post, I might have consigned them to Dantes 9th Level of Hell by the end.
Proto works in very mysterious ways you know!
I know what I have seen over the last 7 years, and while it is not particularly bad right now (it has been worse) I am seeing this trend escalate once again.
Sounds like you have changed doctors and maybe switched your meds, I think it's time for another checkup, just saying.
How am I to know you aren't a mason, you look like a mason, you talk like a mason.
You know just the other week I agreed to meet a fan who was in town in person and later they called me up and accused me of not coming myself and sending a stand in.
I am guessing lots of people are switching doctors this time of year???
You surely go out of your way to defend their integrity and honor, for someone not initiated into the craft.
You should see how nice Turkey Farmers are to their flocks right before the Thanksgiving Holiday!
Just sayin.
Really I don't find those voice recognition typing programs to work very well at all.
My favorite poster here on ATS is a mason, thats no secret. However this has nothing to do with the OP or my arguments.
This is a big problem and probably explains a lot of your delima, Proto is typically just about every body's favorite poster on ATS.
Though of course naturally some people are afraid to admit it.
Masons have enlightened me more than you could ever believe, yet again that has absolutely NOTHING to do with this topic.
They don't make you wear their pictures in those beaded pendants around your kneck and buy them Rolls Royces like some of those Indian Swami's demand do they?
You are their excuse to derail this whole thread, congratulations Mr Straw.
They are just excited to see me is all! A lot of them put on their Christmas Avatars and everything.
The truth is strong OP's with real content don't allow their threads to be derailed. My signature thread is in it's 7th month running, generates on average two pages of fresh content a day and I have defeated no fewer than a dozen organized attacks on the thread.
On the other hand if I decide to hijack a thread, it's the best thing that could happen to the Original Poster, it will go on as long as I want to participate, it will atrract the attention of people who want to see what I am posting on, it will provide opportunities for high quality topical discussions that would never take place.
The original post is poorly thought out, lacks examples, and minimal participation from the thread starter.
What do you want us to do, all sit around and wait for them to say something brilliant against all odds?
Burn Masonic effigees because you read a few internet sites.
Anyway my posts have been highly topical, the title clearly states High-Jacked forum. This happens to be mispelled by the way and suggest that a forum was first high and then stolen.
Hijacked Forum though would in fact be all about Hijacking a thread, and no one is better than hijacking a thread than me.
So I have provided some classic examples on how to hijack a forum.
I really deserve some applause I think.
By the way, what's this thread about anyway?
edit on 21/12/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler because: (no reason given)
reply to post by Schrödinger
Wow this is like a bad star trek episode where Spock says if "Minutes were hours, and hours were days", you have in just one page gone from 7 years of research to 10 years of research.
Now I grant you I write long posts, but I don't think it took me three years to write the last one.
Here is an idea, rather than getting angry at other people for you not being able to make your points, try to put some thoughts into points, look Proto will help...
1. What caused me to become concerned about Free Masons
(explain your motivation)
2. What I have done to study about Free Masons
(list books, first hand interactions, web sites, articles, events)
Example: I personally think it was suspicious that the Masons laid the corner stone of the Capitol Building in Washington DC using a Masonic Ceremony and burried an enscribed Gold Plate in it.
3. What things I suspect Free Masons of having been involved in and to what end
(I suspect that plate they laid says "Property of Proto")
4. What are Masons ultimate Goals
(I think they want to impress me that the made everything to world over "Property of Proto")
5.Why they undertook this task
(As I have said the Proto Christmas Card is highly sought after)
6.Once they accomplish their task what will they morph into/become
(I am thinking Butlers but how many do I really need I mean they dress the part and you can never have too many servants but...)
7. Summary
(why you think it represents an inherent danger to everyone but Proto)
8. Action
(hopefully this does not just involve killing proto, oh the shame of it all)
9. Intentions
(Why you think pursuing this is a good idea)
Break it all down, be a real star, tell us all something that makes sense, or is at least worth investigating, connect the dots, make a coherent lucid post devoid of emotion that intellectuals can find something worth reading and maybe even worth learning, put your 13 years of experience to work for you.
I will read it.
My 10 years of research has been thrown out of the window! I have seen the light, thank you sir.
Wow this is like a bad star trek episode where Spock says if "Minutes were hours, and hours were days", you have in just one page gone from 7 years of research to 10 years of research.
Now I grant you I write long posts, but I don't think it took me three years to write the last one.
Here is an idea, rather than getting angry at other people for you not being able to make your points, try to put some thoughts into points, look Proto will help...
1. What caused me to become concerned about Free Masons
(explain your motivation)
2. What I have done to study about Free Masons
(list books, first hand interactions, web sites, articles, events)
Example: I personally think it was suspicious that the Masons laid the corner stone of the Capitol Building in Washington DC using a Masonic Ceremony and burried an enscribed Gold Plate in it.
3. What things I suspect Free Masons of having been involved in and to what end
(I suspect that plate they laid says "Property of Proto")
4. What are Masons ultimate Goals
(I think they want to impress me that the made everything to world over "Property of Proto")
5.Why they undertook this task
(As I have said the Proto Christmas Card is highly sought after)
6.Once they accomplish their task what will they morph into/become
(I am thinking Butlers but how many do I really need I mean they dress the part and you can never have too many servants but...)
7. Summary
(why you think it represents an inherent danger to everyone but Proto)
8. Action
(hopefully this does not just involve killing proto, oh the shame of it all)
9. Intentions
(Why you think pursuing this is a good idea)
Break it all down, be a real star, tell us all something that makes sense, or is at least worth investigating, connect the dots, make a coherent lucid post devoid of emotion that intellectuals can find something worth reading and maybe even worth learning, put your 13 years of experience to work for you.
I will read it.
edit on 21/12/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by JoshNorton
Challenge accepted.
I am starting to believe that the 'shadow government' is the Jesuits. It seems they aren't Christians but are Luciferians.
Their art of deception and dissimilation has created many organisations and movements under different names - Zionists, Communism, Knights of Malta, Freemasons, etc, You name it, they seem to have created it - they play all parts, all roles.*
Please re-read. I said I am starting to believe - (expression of tentative belief), as yet not confirmed - that the Jesuits are Luciferians. No mention of 'freemasons' as object of the verb 'believe' in this sentence.
Please note the use of the word 'seems in the second sentence. 'Seem to' does not = I believe. It indicates an impression, an idea that something may be the case, as yet unconfirmed.
So you believe that Freemasonry is an organization or movement created by the Luciferian Jesuits. Your words.
No, not my words, your words, based on your mis-reading and mis-representing what I said.
You think they created the Zionist movement too.
Note your own use of the word 'think' here, it seems to have escaped your notice that 'think' and 'believe' don't mean the same thing.
You've been quite clear on your beliefs.
All the posts you quote are about Zionism - so they are totally irrelevant.
edit on 21-12-2010 by wcitizen because: (no reason
given)
edit on 21-12-2010 by wcitizen because: (no reason given)
edit on 21-12-2010 by wcitizen because: (no reason
given)
edit on 21-12-2010 by wcitizen because: (no reason given)
edit on 21-12-2010 by wcitizen because: (no reason
given)
Give me a break 7 years on ATS does not equal 10 years of research.
Anyways did a recalculation, and it would seem I have 8 years of history with ATS. 10 years of research was an overstatement though, as its more 9 than 10.
Whats hysterically funny is that I agree 100 percent with your refute, I think I misunderstood something, and halfway through your post I figured out you weren't a mason, and felt manipulated.
Will answer your post in full, but have to get some sleep now (me misunderstanding things, and writing incoherently is my signal for theta waves!
Anyways did a recalculation, and it would seem I have 8 years of history with ATS. 10 years of research was an overstatement though, as its more 9 than 10.
Whats hysterically funny is that I agree 100 percent with your refute, I think I misunderstood something, and halfway through your post I figured out you weren't a mason, and felt manipulated.
Will answer your post in full, but have to get some sleep now (me misunderstanding things, and writing incoherently is my signal for theta waves!
Thank you for awakening me I was tired, but the will kicked in
1. What caused me to become concerned about Free Masons
I am not overly concerned with Freemasons, more the structure of secret societies, and the tool and goal I believe it is used for!
2. What I have done to study about Free Masons
I agree with your example, that was a very weird thing to do!
I read Morals and Dogma of course, Then the holy scriptures, Torah, Quran, Bible etc. Then what ever I could get my hands on about history, especially ancient Sumer, Babylon, Egypt, Greece. Then read about mythologies in general, Nordic, Hindu, Greek, etc. Really it is to many books to mention, I don't even have a structured idea right now, but it is allot. Also read esoteric stuff from Crowley. As well as semi pseudo stuff like the book of the dead, psychopaths bible etc.
I read every website I could find, incl, masonrywatch
After all this I joined them, as well as the OTO. And left again, because my conscience got the better of me.
Now in a position to join again, with a clear conscience.
3. What things I suspect Free Masons of having been involved in and to what end
Freemasonry is a tool, I believe the secrets they hoard are really ancient knowledge. Simple stuff like Pi, golden mean, semen, seed, flower, fruit, tree of life. Fibonacci sequence, 432 hz.
Ying Yang, the way that microcosm spreads into macrocosm spreads into microcosm.
That our bodies are our temples, that we are made in "gods" image, that we are god, and god is us, that we are the god trying to understand and learn about itself. Stuff that matters!
Instead their hiding of these secrets, have turned the society into an atheistic capitalistic consumer oriented materialistic society, where people are longing for a meaning.
4. What are Masons ultimate Goals
I believe their goal is what they claim it to be, to better themselves as humans! However I do believe they are being manipulated and misused, you came with some fine examples yourself!
5.Why they undertook this task
This is hard, perhaps the men of 1700's just needed something to fill their lifes with, so they stole a bunch of egyptian symbolism and created masonry.
Or there is something to it about trade secrets of the operative masons, I am not sure. I do not really care, though I would guess that the WHY question is important.
6.Once they accomplish their task what will they morph into/become
They would probably be turned against themselves once their purpose is served. I am sure they will be undermined and torn down from within. Their is no need for them if I am right.
7. Summary
People need to be told what the current situation is, most people wont probably care or understand. I believe we are still slaves of capitalism. The state owns me, and I am its labor.
To truly free us self as humans, we need to free ourselves of these shackles first.
Destroy materialism, we have a saying over here, if I translate it, it becomes gibberish.
But the moral is that you should not consume more than you need.
8. Action
I don't want to share that here. But I assure you it only involves self-defence. I would never initiate combat vs. an unarmed and unaggressive person!
9. Intentions
Well, if I should analyze myself; I would say my intention for screaming on these forums, is because of the fact, that I am in doubt, that I have not made up my mind 100%?
8 years on ATS
9 years of research
None of this is professional work, I am an amatuer and have no interest in the intellectuals!
Perhaps it was a mistake coming back, we have already crossed the event horizon.
Perhaps I am looking for friends? Allies? Information?
1. What caused me to become concerned about Free Masons
I am not overly concerned with Freemasons, more the structure of secret societies, and the tool and goal I believe it is used for!
2. What I have done to study about Free Masons
I agree with your example, that was a very weird thing to do!
I read Morals and Dogma of course, Then the holy scriptures, Torah, Quran, Bible etc. Then what ever I could get my hands on about history, especially ancient Sumer, Babylon, Egypt, Greece. Then read about mythologies in general, Nordic, Hindu, Greek, etc. Really it is to many books to mention, I don't even have a structured idea right now, but it is allot. Also read esoteric stuff from Crowley. As well as semi pseudo stuff like the book of the dead, psychopaths bible etc.
I read every website I could find, incl, masonrywatch
After all this I joined them, as well as the OTO. And left again, because my conscience got the better of me.
Now in a position to join again, with a clear conscience.
3. What things I suspect Free Masons of having been involved in and to what end
Freemasonry is a tool, I believe the secrets they hoard are really ancient knowledge. Simple stuff like Pi, golden mean, semen, seed, flower, fruit, tree of life. Fibonacci sequence, 432 hz.
Ying Yang, the way that microcosm spreads into macrocosm spreads into microcosm.
That our bodies are our temples, that we are made in "gods" image, that we are god, and god is us, that we are the god trying to understand and learn about itself. Stuff that matters!
Instead their hiding of these secrets, have turned the society into an atheistic capitalistic consumer oriented materialistic society, where people are longing for a meaning.
4. What are Masons ultimate Goals
I believe their goal is what they claim it to be, to better themselves as humans! However I do believe they are being manipulated and misused, you came with some fine examples yourself!
5.Why they undertook this task
This is hard, perhaps the men of 1700's just needed something to fill their lifes with, so they stole a bunch of egyptian symbolism and created masonry.
Or there is something to it about trade secrets of the operative masons, I am not sure. I do not really care, though I would guess that the WHY question is important.
6.Once they accomplish their task what will they morph into/become
They would probably be turned against themselves once their purpose is served. I am sure they will be undermined and torn down from within. Their is no need for them if I am right.
7. Summary
People need to be told what the current situation is, most people wont probably care or understand. I believe we are still slaves of capitalism. The state owns me, and I am its labor.
To truly free us self as humans, we need to free ourselves of these shackles first.
Destroy materialism, we have a saying over here, if I translate it, it becomes gibberish.
But the moral is that you should not consume more than you need.
8. Action
I don't want to share that here. But I assure you it only involves self-defence. I would never initiate combat vs. an unarmed and unaggressive person!
9. Intentions
Well, if I should analyze myself; I would say my intention for screaming on these forums, is because of the fact, that I am in doubt, that I have not made up my mind 100%?
8 years on ATS
9 years of research
None of this is professional work, I am an amatuer and have no interest in the intellectuals!
Perhaps it was a mistake coming back, we have already crossed the event horizon.
Perhaps I am looking for friends? Allies? Information?
reply to post by JoshNorton
I think what you don't understand, or care to consider, is that I am not here for anything other than entertainment. I also do not think I am alone.
I think what you don't understand, or care to consider, is that I am not here for anything other than entertainment. I also do not think I am alone.
reply to post by wcitizen
[Removed unnecessary quote of entire previous post]
www.amen-ra.org.uk...
[Mod Edit replaced quote with Reply To tab]
Mod Edit: Quoting – Please Review This Link.
AboveTopSecret.com takes pride in making every post count. Please do not just posts links to other sites, please post one or two paragraphs offering your own opinion as well.
Sauron
Moderator
[Removed unnecessary quote of entire previous post]
www.amen-ra.org.uk...
[Mod Edit replaced quote with Reply To tab]
Mod Edit: Quoting – Please Review This Link.
AboveTopSecret.com takes pride in making every post count. Please do not just posts links to other sites, please post one or two paragraphs offering your own opinion as well.
Sauron
Moderator
edit on 22/12/2010 by Sauron because: remove quote
reply to post by TribeOfManyColours
I have absolutely no idea what this post is supposed to be saying.
I have absolutely no idea what this post is supposed to be saying.
Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by kallisti36
Lol! One of my favorite OPs to date!
If the forum is dying, because of experienced Freemasons sharing their reality with you and crushing all the silly conspiracies then I would say that is a win-win-win! Freemasons get to set the record straight. Frightened conspiracy believers get to see the silliness rebuked.
Now, where have I seen this kind of argument used before, That those who question the OS are silly conspiracists? Oh yes, it's the secret shadow government.
ATS gets to serve a purpose and become a center for elevated conversation and truth-seeking, standing true to the motto "Deny Ignorance."
And the previous two sentences are an example of this elevated conversation and truth-seeking?
So, the 6 or 10 Freemasons that I see in all of these threads, that consistently share everything possible, and offer to give first-hand accounts, and provide links to published material where all the secrets of Freemasonry are readily available seem like pretty good fellas to me, and they are doing an awesome job. Kudos!
From one with absolutely no personal bias!
edit on 22-12-2010 by wcitizen because: (no reason given)
edit on 22-12-2010 by wcitizen because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by wcitizen
reply to post by TribeOfManyColours
I have absolutely no idea what this post is supposed to be saying.
It's all about NOW
1, I have absolutely no idea what this post is supposed to be saying
2, hvbsltlyndwhthspstssppsdtbsyng
3, hvbsltyndwpg
h, 8
v,22
b,2
s,19
l,12
t,20
y,25
n,14
d,4
w,23
p,16
g,7
8+22+2+19+12+20+25+14+4+23+16+7= 172.
1+7+2= 10
10 = Seagoat.
reply to post by wcitizen
So odd that 2 people have now attacked my post by claiming that I used some type of "technique." I only posted that I thought it was a win-win-win for the Freemasons, the Conspiracy Theorists, and ATS by having a forum where people can post their most off the wall and "silly" fears of Freemasons, and then Freemasons could come on here and share their personal experiences and "REAL" knowledge of the craft. I didn't attack any single person, and the most disparaging thing I did was use the word "silly," when I could have used ridiculous, off-the-wall, or just plain stupid, but I tried to keep it light.
I stand by my post. All the research in the world does not compare to first-hand real world experience.
Knock and it shall be open unto you. Ask and you shall receive.
The Masons are here. Ask us anything. When the answers are not interesting enough for you, I suppose you can continue on making up whatever satisfies your fantasies, but hopefully the more logical and intelligent folks will see questions asked and answered and then move on to other topics.
I hope the forum does not die completely, but if the traffic to it is dying down, it is probably because we have "denied ignorance," and gotten the truth out. Still seems like a win-win-win to me, but I suppose there will still be a couple of people that will attack this post, because it does not satisfy their fantasy.
So odd that 2 people have now attacked my post by claiming that I used some type of "technique." I only posted that I thought it was a win-win-win for the Freemasons, the Conspiracy Theorists, and ATS by having a forum where people can post their most off the wall and "silly" fears of Freemasons, and then Freemasons could come on here and share their personal experiences and "REAL" knowledge of the craft. I didn't attack any single person, and the most disparaging thing I did was use the word "silly," when I could have used ridiculous, off-the-wall, or just plain stupid, but I tried to keep it light.
I stand by my post. All the research in the world does not compare to first-hand real world experience.
Knock and it shall be open unto you. Ask and you shall receive.
The Masons are here. Ask us anything. When the answers are not interesting enough for you, I suppose you can continue on making up whatever satisfies your fantasies, but hopefully the more logical and intelligent folks will see questions asked and answered and then move on to other topics.
I hope the forum does not die completely, but if the traffic to it is dying down, it is probably because we have "denied ignorance," and gotten the truth out. Still seems like a win-win-win to me, but I suppose there will still be a couple of people that will attack this post, because it does not satisfy their fantasy.
On another note.......
Saying the "Secret Society" forum was "hijacked" by Freemasons is ludicrous!
Doesn't it make more sense to say the forum was hijacked by all the fantastical stories and uninformed opinions and rumor-mongers? If a team of bus drivers go in and crank up all the buses and set to work delivering people from stop to stop, they haven't really hijacked the buses now have they? But, if a team of internet bus driver video gamers, meet up at the depot, and grab all the buses and start leading them down all the wrong roads and getting people off track with bad information, then you have a real hijacking.
Maybe we should rethink the chicken and the egg a little bit in this thread. Who are the REAL hijackers here?
Saying the "Secret Society" forum was "hijacked" by Freemasons is ludicrous!
Doesn't it make more sense to say the forum was hijacked by all the fantastical stories and uninformed opinions and rumor-mongers? If a team of bus drivers go in and crank up all the buses and set to work delivering people from stop to stop, they haven't really hijacked the buses now have they? But, if a team of internet bus driver video gamers, meet up at the depot, and grab all the buses and start leading them down all the wrong roads and getting people off track with bad information, then you have a real hijacking.
Maybe we should rethink the chicken and the egg a little bit in this thread. Who are the REAL hijackers here?
reply to post by Schrödinger
Alright, fair enough, you have now provided some examples that are meaningful to you as to why you are concerned about Masonry.
The biggest thing I got from you was that you feel they are withholding certain things from the masses that have to do with the ‘secrets’ of life.
Now assuming this to be true are they withholding these secrets or…are they the only one’s that give a crap? (Pardon the language). Two thirds of this world is initiated in a Roman power struggle, where you have Jews, Christians, and Muslims doing their level best to vie for the dominance of their own religious philosophies over one another. They large bulk of these people consider anything not written in their holy scriptures to be blasphemous and likely put forward by some evil fallen angel they read about in their books, or from one of his minions they refer to demons or in some extreme cases here on ATS put forth by proto!
So now let’s ask when would have been a good time for them to share all these things (assuming they know them)…
(1) The Spanish Inquisition
(2) The Salem Witch Trials
(3) The annual pilgrimage to Mecca
(4) The 700 Channel
Now let’s ask another important question why people keep secrets, usually it for one of two or sometimes both reasons:
1. Divulging the secret(s) would result in an angry backlash from people predisposed to not believe those things.
Example: Jesus never existed but was patterned loosely and allegorically off the life of Julius Caesar's, even if it could be proven, how many Christians do you think would consider the proof to be sufficient enough to abandon their love of Christ.
2. Divulging the secret(s) would eliminate any advantage one had by being the only one who knows the secret.
Example: Grandma just moved over the river and through the woods to a new house that you are the only one presently, who knows where it is located, it is Thanksgiving and the first to arrive gets an extra slice of pumpkin pie.
Now contrary to popular belief they often do shoot the messenger who brings bad tidings and there is nothing more that people do not want to hear than they have not only been lied to, but have been lied to their whole life, and lied to by people they trusted. It doesn’t matter if those people spread the lie where lied to too, it only matters that they now have to accept something that they loved or were dependent upon believing to make up their reality is a lie.
So assuming the Masons know a ‘higher’ or ‘more accurate’ truth that they are ‘purposefully’ withholding, what good would it do them to ‘disclose’ this?
In reality assuming it was the truth, people would just reject it as not being the ‘truth’ that they were taught to believe is the ‘truth’ and there likely would be an angry backlash for the attempt.
Example: Alien Disclosure, now a lot of people on ATS are sure that visitors from other worlds have long been coming to this planet, using stealth technology to get into line early on the day after Thanksgiving Sales and buying up all the best bargains and denying Earthlings these super once in a life time deals and then taking off back to their planets with Jr.’s Rubbery Robby Doll!
Many people believe the Government(s) know these off world beings are here and visiting here but are withholding it, this upsets some people, and makes them not trust the government even though they have no real evidence this is happening.
So why would the Government do this?
War of the Worlds: Long before Tom Cruise or even TV when Radio was the rage and the mass media of the day a talented yet somewhat demented fellow named Orson Wells did a Radio show entitled War of the Worlds where he even went so far as to bang some pots and pans around in the studio and acted out a mock Alien attack on his weekly Radio Show.
People listening to it thought it was real, and while Orson was reading his script in his New York City Studio unbeknownst to him in Every Town USA people were terrified and taking to the streets, calling the police and army, arming themselves into neighborhood militias and in a full blown state of national panic as they desperately tried to prepare to meet the encroaching alien horde.
There are really two entities who never forgot the lesson of that night: 1. The U.S. Government and 2. Orson Wells.
Now assuming you are correct, what would Masonic Disclosure and Alien Disclosure have in common?
They potentially could both put the truth to things like Yahweh which as far as proto is concerned is actually Yahwehshe patron Canaanite God of Pirates, Mercenaries and Thieves, since those clever Jews have never named their God, that yes Jesus Christ was patterned off the attributes of Julius Caesar that Rome wanted instilled in the Masses, and Mohamed was yet another clever fellow hoping if he patterned a similar monotheistic system based off of Rome’s that Rome would let them have some autonomy of their own, if they weren’t a threat to the over all system.
So now to make YOU happy we have pissed off 2/3rds of the world’s population most of them heavily armed!
Smooth move!
NOT.
Now why are they going to be upset, well because you have either done one or two things to them they are bound to find equally offensive (1.) that they are the biggest fools in the universe who have patterned and lived their entire lives for millennia off of base fictions or (2.) That you (those who disclose) are evil liars, vying for power of control and are agents of some evil deity or off world race.
So what are such people withholding is the equivalent of “Look I hate to break it to you but I have been sleeping with your wife”.
Most husbands don’t take this too well, and well frankly their wives don’t either!
Now let’s get back to your quest, your quest for knowledge in books, and in the hidden meanings in books, in symbols, etc.
Like John Lennon you are pretty sure there must be more to life than “Living in pain and fear”.
So let’s talk about two of Proto’s favorite things the Chicken and the Egg, and the Cart and the Horse.
Who is actually denying the truth, those few who know it? That small group of illuminists, shadow government operatives, secret society leaders, priests, and national leaders?...
Or the masses that prefer a fiction comforting enough that they can believe in most of it, but faulty enough that they can argue with and fight with others over what the absolute truth is?
Which came first the small group that knows the truth, or the big group that can’t really handle the truth?
Now rolling right along here let’s assume that the Masons know the truth, and they decided to disclose it.
Let’s flip back to the ‘Morgan Affair’ where a ‘Mason’ who disclosed some of the secrets of Masonry was supposedly and allegedly murdered by fellow Masons.
Now history is vague as to what really happened here, some believe that Morgan faked his own death to increase sales of his book and lived happily ever after in the Caribbean sans the ball and chain known as his wife, off his royalties quietly forwarded by his agents.
Others believe Joseph Smith founder of the Mormon Church murdered the hapless Captain because he coveted his wife and later married her once widowed.
Some believe that a group of ‘renegade Masons’ took an allegorical punishment to a physical extreme.
Most believe as both national history and Masonic History teaches that this tawdry and sorted affair led to a massive backlash against the Masons here in the United States which not only led to Masons leaving their lodges in droves, many of them being abandoned others burned to the ground and eventually led to such an outpouring of public distrust against secret societies it led to even college fraternities and sororities coming under attack.
This they tell us is what led to the founding of the Skull and Bones 322 at Yale by its founders in protest of these actions.
However real history doesn’t actually support anything but the founding of the Skull and Bones, as financial manipulation by the foreign owned Second United States Bank which was about to lose it’s 20 year charter led to hyperinflation wrecking the young American Economy some of the financial details of the Treaty of Paris and Treaty of Ghent obligating the people to pre-revolutionary war debts payable to Europe that had previously been kept secret started coming to light as most of the Founders that were guarding them happened to have died off.
Of course most of those Founders were Masons and for a time it was considered that the Revolution itself was a Masonic Conspiracy to take over management of the Colonies for the European Owners, who still were reaping all the financial rewards of ownership, while the Government (The Founders) were cutting themselves in for a hefty fee as Managers and Agents of the European principles.
Now here is the moral of this little known story that the Government and Masons alike will deny even though documents on file with the registrars of many of the States will support it, and that is a contract, is a contract, is a contract.
Knowing the terms of the contract doesn’t actually change the contract, especially when you aren’t and weren’t a party to the contract.
But here is the other Moral to the story, once again assuming today’s Masons know what yesterdays Masons know too.
Whether it’s details about Christianity, the Founding of the Nation, or any of the mystical, metaphysical, quantum physics and mechanics, people like to imagine that groups like the Masons know, disclosing them to people who a. don’t want to hear them in the first place b. wouldn’t believe them if they heard them in the second place c. would get angry at who is disclosing them in the third place, and d. would roll right back over, spread and say skip the Vaseline and the kiss and the fourth place makes absolutely no difference, because a., b., c., and d., are all bound to happen.
Now in conclusion here is what you aren’t getting, are the Masons hiding anything or are they the only people who care about some things?
Now if you want to join the Bohemian Club you better have a blueblood pedigree, a few other bluebloods to vouch for you, at least enough money to pay your 150,000.00 annual dues and incidentals, and some kind of worth to the rest of the group that justifies you taking up a scarce chair at the table.
However if you want to join the Masons they tell me you need only be a fine upstanding citizen of moral character and fiber, have no criminal record, and have a desire to help your fellow human beings, be honest and enjoy ‘brotherly love’, this kind of sounds like code for ‘Gay’ but they insist this is not the case, so you don’t have to worry to much about the brotherly love thing, but I would still be careful about dropping soap in the communal shower!
So if they have set the membership bar that low, and you really think they know things you would like to know, well then do what a lot of them suggest in these threads and give it a try.
This is not an endorsement or recommendation by proto by the way, but it is a common sense remedy.
Now here is the truth though, when it comes to all these things, that you ‘think and imagine’ they know, they pretty much ‘think and imagine’ they know them too.
From what I gather, they are like every other religious minded person on the planet waiting for ‘death’ to ‘cross over’ to find out for sure.
Incidentally or coincidentally Jews and non-Jews practicing the Kabala are tinkering with metaphysical quantum physics and mechanics too, so this is another way for curious people to go.
Further Wiccans and other Pagans are dabbling in the occult also trying to tap into ethereal properties, higher truths, and quantum physics and mechanics.
However having said that, all these paths remain flawed as all you are doing is looking externally for information and mechanics that were internally stored in you at the moment of your birth.
So the further you journey with out, the further it’s actually going to take you from the journey within, which is ultimately where you will have to journey to learn the Universes highest truths.
So what are the Masons really withholding from you? In all likelihood just another flawed path overly reliant on ritual and the external to restore some of the belief in yourself through external sources instead of internal sources and a codependency that leads to just another form of shared reality you eventually become as hostage to as everyone else dependent on a shared reality with others.
Now who’s fault is it really you are cut off from ‘you’ well your own, and no offense to you, but until people learn to master their emotions, their petty jealousies and desires, their impetuousness, their vanity, their gluttony, well it’s likely a good thing from the moment of birth onward you are led away from ‘you’ and what you inherently know to be taught these false dogmas.
Which you are free at any time to reject, to start mastering yourself, and to head back to you, and look for the answers the one place that no one can sell you a book, cast you in a robe, stand you in a line or row, make you bow or do incantations, anoint yourself with oil, pluck the legs off of frogs, adorn yourself with ornaments or any other silly thing they all seem to love to do, to look externally for answers that can only be found within.
No offense to anyone but from where I sit, even the Masons can’t help you find you, only you can help you find you.
The knowledge you seek is ‘out there’, the knowledge you crave though is ‘in here’.
No one is in fact holding you back but you, so no need to blame it on the Baby Jesus, the Masons, your Government, or anyone else but you.
Now Proto sure would appreciate it if you all learned to play nicely with one another.
Thanks.
Alright, fair enough, you have now provided some examples that are meaningful to you as to why you are concerned about Masonry.
The biggest thing I got from you was that you feel they are withholding certain things from the masses that have to do with the ‘secrets’ of life.
Now assuming this to be true are they withholding these secrets or…are they the only one’s that give a crap? (Pardon the language). Two thirds of this world is initiated in a Roman power struggle, where you have Jews, Christians, and Muslims doing their level best to vie for the dominance of their own religious philosophies over one another. They large bulk of these people consider anything not written in their holy scriptures to be blasphemous and likely put forward by some evil fallen angel they read about in their books, or from one of his minions they refer to demons or in some extreme cases here on ATS put forth by proto!
So now let’s ask when would have been a good time for them to share all these things (assuming they know them)…
(1) The Spanish Inquisition
(2) The Salem Witch Trials
(3) The annual pilgrimage to Mecca
(4) The 700 Channel
Now let’s ask another important question why people keep secrets, usually it for one of two or sometimes both reasons:
1. Divulging the secret(s) would result in an angry backlash from people predisposed to not believe those things.
Example: Jesus never existed but was patterned loosely and allegorically off the life of Julius Caesar's, even if it could be proven, how many Christians do you think would consider the proof to be sufficient enough to abandon their love of Christ.
2. Divulging the secret(s) would eliminate any advantage one had by being the only one who knows the secret.
Example: Grandma just moved over the river and through the woods to a new house that you are the only one presently, who knows where it is located, it is Thanksgiving and the first to arrive gets an extra slice of pumpkin pie.
Now contrary to popular belief they often do shoot the messenger who brings bad tidings and there is nothing more that people do not want to hear than they have not only been lied to, but have been lied to their whole life, and lied to by people they trusted. It doesn’t matter if those people spread the lie where lied to too, it only matters that they now have to accept something that they loved or were dependent upon believing to make up their reality is a lie.
So assuming the Masons know a ‘higher’ or ‘more accurate’ truth that they are ‘purposefully’ withholding, what good would it do them to ‘disclose’ this?
In reality assuming it was the truth, people would just reject it as not being the ‘truth’ that they were taught to believe is the ‘truth’ and there likely would be an angry backlash for the attempt.
Example: Alien Disclosure, now a lot of people on ATS are sure that visitors from other worlds have long been coming to this planet, using stealth technology to get into line early on the day after Thanksgiving Sales and buying up all the best bargains and denying Earthlings these super once in a life time deals and then taking off back to their planets with Jr.’s Rubbery Robby Doll!
Many people believe the Government(s) know these off world beings are here and visiting here but are withholding it, this upsets some people, and makes them not trust the government even though they have no real evidence this is happening.
So why would the Government do this?
War of the Worlds: Long before Tom Cruise or even TV when Radio was the rage and the mass media of the day a talented yet somewhat demented fellow named Orson Wells did a Radio show entitled War of the Worlds where he even went so far as to bang some pots and pans around in the studio and acted out a mock Alien attack on his weekly Radio Show.
People listening to it thought it was real, and while Orson was reading his script in his New York City Studio unbeknownst to him in Every Town USA people were terrified and taking to the streets, calling the police and army, arming themselves into neighborhood militias and in a full blown state of national panic as they desperately tried to prepare to meet the encroaching alien horde.
There are really two entities who never forgot the lesson of that night: 1. The U.S. Government and 2. Orson Wells.
Now assuming you are correct, what would Masonic Disclosure and Alien Disclosure have in common?
They potentially could both put the truth to things like Yahweh which as far as proto is concerned is actually Yahwehshe patron Canaanite God of Pirates, Mercenaries and Thieves, since those clever Jews have never named their God, that yes Jesus Christ was patterned off the attributes of Julius Caesar that Rome wanted instilled in the Masses, and Mohamed was yet another clever fellow hoping if he patterned a similar monotheistic system based off of Rome’s that Rome would let them have some autonomy of their own, if they weren’t a threat to the over all system.
So now to make YOU happy we have pissed off 2/3rds of the world’s population most of them heavily armed!
Smooth move!
NOT.
Now why are they going to be upset, well because you have either done one or two things to them they are bound to find equally offensive (1.) that they are the biggest fools in the universe who have patterned and lived their entire lives for millennia off of base fictions or (2.) That you (those who disclose) are evil liars, vying for power of control and are agents of some evil deity or off world race.
So what are such people withholding is the equivalent of “Look I hate to break it to you but I have been sleeping with your wife”.
Most husbands don’t take this too well, and well frankly their wives don’t either!
Now let’s get back to your quest, your quest for knowledge in books, and in the hidden meanings in books, in symbols, etc.
Like John Lennon you are pretty sure there must be more to life than “Living in pain and fear”.
So let’s talk about two of Proto’s favorite things the Chicken and the Egg, and the Cart and the Horse.
Who is actually denying the truth, those few who know it? That small group of illuminists, shadow government operatives, secret society leaders, priests, and national leaders?...
Or the masses that prefer a fiction comforting enough that they can believe in most of it, but faulty enough that they can argue with and fight with others over what the absolute truth is?
Which came first the small group that knows the truth, or the big group that can’t really handle the truth?
Now rolling right along here let’s assume that the Masons know the truth, and they decided to disclose it.
Let’s flip back to the ‘Morgan Affair’ where a ‘Mason’ who disclosed some of the secrets of Masonry was supposedly and allegedly murdered by fellow Masons.
Now history is vague as to what really happened here, some believe that Morgan faked his own death to increase sales of his book and lived happily ever after in the Caribbean sans the ball and chain known as his wife, off his royalties quietly forwarded by his agents.
Others believe Joseph Smith founder of the Mormon Church murdered the hapless Captain because he coveted his wife and later married her once widowed.
Some believe that a group of ‘renegade Masons’ took an allegorical punishment to a physical extreme.
Most believe as both national history and Masonic History teaches that this tawdry and sorted affair led to a massive backlash against the Masons here in the United States which not only led to Masons leaving their lodges in droves, many of them being abandoned others burned to the ground and eventually led to such an outpouring of public distrust against secret societies it led to even college fraternities and sororities coming under attack.
This they tell us is what led to the founding of the Skull and Bones 322 at Yale by its founders in protest of these actions.
However real history doesn’t actually support anything but the founding of the Skull and Bones, as financial manipulation by the foreign owned Second United States Bank which was about to lose it’s 20 year charter led to hyperinflation wrecking the young American Economy some of the financial details of the Treaty of Paris and Treaty of Ghent obligating the people to pre-revolutionary war debts payable to Europe that had previously been kept secret started coming to light as most of the Founders that were guarding them happened to have died off.
Of course most of those Founders were Masons and for a time it was considered that the Revolution itself was a Masonic Conspiracy to take over management of the Colonies for the European Owners, who still were reaping all the financial rewards of ownership, while the Government (The Founders) were cutting themselves in for a hefty fee as Managers and Agents of the European principles.
Now here is the moral of this little known story that the Government and Masons alike will deny even though documents on file with the registrars of many of the States will support it, and that is a contract, is a contract, is a contract.
Knowing the terms of the contract doesn’t actually change the contract, especially when you aren’t and weren’t a party to the contract.
But here is the other Moral to the story, once again assuming today’s Masons know what yesterdays Masons know too.
Whether it’s details about Christianity, the Founding of the Nation, or any of the mystical, metaphysical, quantum physics and mechanics, people like to imagine that groups like the Masons know, disclosing them to people who a. don’t want to hear them in the first place b. wouldn’t believe them if they heard them in the second place c. would get angry at who is disclosing them in the third place, and d. would roll right back over, spread and say skip the Vaseline and the kiss and the fourth place makes absolutely no difference, because a., b., c., and d., are all bound to happen.
Now in conclusion here is what you aren’t getting, are the Masons hiding anything or are they the only people who care about some things?
Now if you want to join the Bohemian Club you better have a blueblood pedigree, a few other bluebloods to vouch for you, at least enough money to pay your 150,000.00 annual dues and incidentals, and some kind of worth to the rest of the group that justifies you taking up a scarce chair at the table.
However if you want to join the Masons they tell me you need only be a fine upstanding citizen of moral character and fiber, have no criminal record, and have a desire to help your fellow human beings, be honest and enjoy ‘brotherly love’, this kind of sounds like code for ‘Gay’ but they insist this is not the case, so you don’t have to worry to much about the brotherly love thing, but I would still be careful about dropping soap in the communal shower!
So if they have set the membership bar that low, and you really think they know things you would like to know, well then do what a lot of them suggest in these threads and give it a try.
This is not an endorsement or recommendation by proto by the way, but it is a common sense remedy.
Now here is the truth though, when it comes to all these things, that you ‘think and imagine’ they know, they pretty much ‘think and imagine’ they know them too.
From what I gather, they are like every other religious minded person on the planet waiting for ‘death’ to ‘cross over’ to find out for sure.
Incidentally or coincidentally Jews and non-Jews practicing the Kabala are tinkering with metaphysical quantum physics and mechanics too, so this is another way for curious people to go.
Further Wiccans and other Pagans are dabbling in the occult also trying to tap into ethereal properties, higher truths, and quantum physics and mechanics.
However having said that, all these paths remain flawed as all you are doing is looking externally for information and mechanics that were internally stored in you at the moment of your birth.
So the further you journey with out, the further it’s actually going to take you from the journey within, which is ultimately where you will have to journey to learn the Universes highest truths.
So what are the Masons really withholding from you? In all likelihood just another flawed path overly reliant on ritual and the external to restore some of the belief in yourself through external sources instead of internal sources and a codependency that leads to just another form of shared reality you eventually become as hostage to as everyone else dependent on a shared reality with others.
Now who’s fault is it really you are cut off from ‘you’ well your own, and no offense to you, but until people learn to master their emotions, their petty jealousies and desires, their impetuousness, their vanity, their gluttony, well it’s likely a good thing from the moment of birth onward you are led away from ‘you’ and what you inherently know to be taught these false dogmas.
Which you are free at any time to reject, to start mastering yourself, and to head back to you, and look for the answers the one place that no one can sell you a book, cast you in a robe, stand you in a line or row, make you bow or do incantations, anoint yourself with oil, pluck the legs off of frogs, adorn yourself with ornaments or any other silly thing they all seem to love to do, to look externally for answers that can only be found within.
No offense to anyone but from where I sit, even the Masons can’t help you find you, only you can help you find you.
The knowledge you seek is ‘out there’, the knowledge you crave though is ‘in here’.
No one is in fact holding you back but you, so no need to blame it on the Baby Jesus, the Masons, your Government, or anyone else but you.
Now Proto sure would appreciate it if you all learned to play nicely with one another.
Thanks.
edit on 22/12/10 by ProtoplasmicTraveler because: (no reason given)
reply to post by getreadyalready
Reading comprehension, look it up!
If you are referring to me in your post, you need to read it again. I am not attacking anything, I have not claimed you used a technique, you have however totally avoided the point.
This is a conspiracy forum. It is here so we can discuss conspiracy theories. This sub-forum is made for the debate around secret societies. Freemasonry is a secret societies. If we cannot discuss theories about Freemasonry in this forum, with getting a thread DERAILED by OFF TOPIC posts, and Masons, personally attacking and poster critical of Freemasonry, then where can we?
What you are looking for you can find on any official Freemason forum, why don't you join one of these instead.
Reading comprehension, look it up!
If you are referring to me in your post, you need to read it again. I am not attacking anything, I have not claimed you used a technique, you have however totally avoided the point.
This is a conspiracy forum. It is here so we can discuss conspiracy theories. This sub-forum is made for the debate around secret societies. Freemasonry is a secret societies. If we cannot discuss theories about Freemasonry in this forum, with getting a thread DERAILED by OFF TOPIC posts, and Masons, personally attacking and poster critical of Freemasonry, then where can we?
What you are looking for you can find on any official Freemason forum, why don't you join one of these instead.
reply to post by Schrödinger
So, my post clearly states it was a reply to wtcitizen, but I did say my post had been attacked “2 times” and the other one was you. Maybe I did need reading comprehension courses, because what I quoted above clearly looks like an attack to me. Humorous and sarcastic, but still an attack.
How can a thread about Freemasonry ever be “derailed” by Freemasons? How can it be “off-topic?” Are we supposed to sit idly by while a bunch of uninformed people banter back and forth with speculation? Wouldn’t you prefer to have an inside look? If the purpose is to “deny ignorance” and people who are not Masons are unintentionally “ignorant” of what really goes on in a Lodge, then it seems productive to have Masons step in and clear the air. Unless your intention is to not get facts and first-hand accounts?
I have very, very rarely seen a personal attack against a poster.
And nobody ever said that you cannot discuss theories about Freemasonry in this forum, but any “discussion” would be incomplete without participation by the actual Masons.
Are you actually pushing the idea that a forum about Freemasonry, would be better off without the participation of Freemasons? If so, then I question your motives about having the discussion at all.
I’ll say it again, Ask and you Shall Receive. What is it you would like to know?
**Let me apologize in advance if my answers are boring, because during my 6 years in Freemasonry, including my time as a Worshipful Master, and including my participation in Grand Lodge events, and including my friendships with many 32nd, 33rd Degree Masons, and my acquaintance with a couple of Past Grand Masters has been pretty mundane. I’ll try to spice up my answers if possible.
Calling anti-masonic theorists silly is to good of an argument to counter, you sir have proven that Freemasons are good upstanding citizens all the way!
My 10 years of research has been thrown out of the window! I have seen the light, thank you
So, my post clearly states it was a reply to wtcitizen, but I did say my post had been attacked “2 times” and the other one was you. Maybe I did need reading comprehension courses, because what I quoted above clearly looks like an attack to me. Humorous and sarcastic, but still an attack.
This is a conspiracy forum. It is here so we can discuss conspiracy theories. This sub-forum is made for the debate around secret societies. Freemasonry is a secret societies. If we cannot discuss theories about Freemasonry in this forum, with getting a thread DERAILED by OFF TOPIC posts, and Masons, personally attacking and poster critical of Freemasonry, then where can we?
How can a thread about Freemasonry ever be “derailed” by Freemasons? How can it be “off-topic?” Are we supposed to sit idly by while a bunch of uninformed people banter back and forth with speculation? Wouldn’t you prefer to have an inside look? If the purpose is to “deny ignorance” and people who are not Masons are unintentionally “ignorant” of what really goes on in a Lodge, then it seems productive to have Masons step in and clear the air. Unless your intention is to not get facts and first-hand accounts?
I have very, very rarely seen a personal attack against a poster.
And nobody ever said that you cannot discuss theories about Freemasonry in this forum, but any “discussion” would be incomplete without participation by the actual Masons.
Are you actually pushing the idea that a forum about Freemasonry, would be better off without the participation of Freemasons? If so, then I question your motives about having the discussion at all.
I’ll say it again, Ask and you Shall Receive. What is it you would like to know?
**Let me apologize in advance if my answers are boring, because during my 6 years in Freemasonry, including my time as a Worshipful Master, and including my participation in Grand Lodge events, and including my friendships with many 32nd, 33rd Degree Masons, and my acquaintance with a couple of Past Grand Masters has been pretty mundane. I’ll try to spice up my answers if possible.
new topics
-
Is the origin for the Eye of Horus the pineal gland?
General Conspiracies: 1 hours ago -
Man sets himself on fire outside Donald Trump trial
Mainstream News: 1 hours ago -
Biden says little kids flip him the bird all the time.
2024 Elections: 1 hours ago -
The Democrats Take Control the House - Look what happened while you were sleeping
US Political Madness: 2 hours ago -
Sheetz facing racial discrimination lawsuit for considering criminal history in hiring
Social Issues and Civil Unrest: 2 hours ago -
In an Historic First, In N Out Burger Permanently Closes a Location
Mainstream News: 4 hours ago -
MH370 Again....
Disaster Conspiracies: 4 hours ago -
Are you ready for the return of Jesus Christ? Have you been cleansed by His blood?
Religion, Faith, And Theology: 6 hours ago -
Chronological time line of open source information
History: 8 hours ago -
A man of the people
Medical Issues & Conspiracies: 9 hours ago
top topics
-
In an Historic First, In N Out Burger Permanently Closes a Location
Mainstream News: 4 hours ago, 14 flags -
The Democrats Take Control the House - Look what happened while you were sleeping
US Political Madness: 2 hours ago, 8 flags -
A man of the people
Medical Issues & Conspiracies: 9 hours ago, 8 flags -
Thousands Of Young Ukrainian Men Trying To Flee The Country To Avoid Conscription And The War
Other Current Events: 14 hours ago, 7 flags -
Iran launches Retalliation Strike 4.18.24
World War Three: 17 hours ago, 6 flags -
4 plans of US elites to defeat Russia
New World Order: 11 hours ago, 4 flags -
Man sets himself on fire outside Donald Trump trial
Mainstream News: 1 hours ago, 4 flags -
12 jurors selected in Trump criminal trial
US Political Madness: 17 hours ago, 4 flags -
Biden says little kids flip him the bird all the time.
2024 Elections: 1 hours ago, 3 flags -
Sheetz facing racial discrimination lawsuit for considering criminal history in hiring
Social Issues and Civil Unrest: 2 hours ago, 3 flags
active topics
-
Man sets himself on fire outside Donald Trump trial
Mainstream News • 13 • : KKLOCO -
12 jurors selected in Trump criminal trial
US Political Madness • 77 • : matafuchs -
Israeli Missile Strikes in Iran, Explosions in Syria + Iraq
World War Three • 101 • : CarlLaFong -
The Democrats Take Control the House - Look what happened while you were sleeping
US Political Madness • 16 • : VariedcodeSole -
Thousands Of Young Ukrainian Men Trying To Flee The Country To Avoid Conscription And The War
Other Current Events • 26 • : Lazy88 -
Biden says little kids flip him the bird all the time.
2024 Elections • 6 • : Astrocometus -
George Knapp AMA on DI
Area 51 and other Facilities • 27 • : TheValeyard -
4 plans of US elites to defeat Russia
New World Order • 35 • : Oldcarpy2 -
Sheetz facing racial discrimination lawsuit for considering criminal history in hiring
Social Issues and Civil Unrest • 6 • : chiefsmom -
Is the origin for the Eye of Horus the pineal gland?
General Conspiracies • 1 • : ARM19688