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Originally posted by JoshNorton
No Mason here has denied that.
Originally posted by Schrödinger
But it is not always just a simple truth, you refuse to accept the fact, that truth is subjective!
I'm sure there are. In fact, I guarantee it. I make no claims to be omniscient. I'll leave that to God... you know, the guy we depict with the all seeing eye.
And that there could be things going on in the secret societies that you aren't aware off.
Nonsense. We claim to have a truth, and we base our truth on our experience, and our experience within the lodge is by its very nature more informative about what goes on in the lodge room than a truth based on someone who's never set foot within a hundred feet of a lodge room.
You valse in and think you are the ultimate arbiters and keepers of "the real truth" and therefore insist that you have the last word in every debate about the structure of the secret societies.
Bzzzzt!!!! You can't have it both ways. The truth can't be both subjective AND obvious. My truth is obvious to me, and your truth is obvious to you, but they're obviously not the same truth...
The truth is obvious...
I'll go one step further and say that the Masons on ATS are more often than not trying to get the naysayers off their butts to go out and find your own truth. Stop taking YouTube videos as "proof" of anything. Recognize when baseless claims are baseless, and if you think there's any truth to them, find the base that would support that position, or if you find it's not there, build up a truth for yourself based on what you DO find with your own investigation.
It's really the only way to deny ignorance...
edit on 2010.12.21 by JoshNorton because: (no reason given)
Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas
Lies through obfuscation, lies...[snip]
......They choke off fair trade, fair business practices for all in their favor only, and keep honest people who have no interest in belonging to their ilk from making good businesses run by oppressionist tactics, spreading lies about those businessmen, and basically using Mafia tactics through R.I.C.O. Act offenses with Government sanctioning and or interactions.
Of these federal commissions, institutions, federal reserves and ABC bureau's etc. How many of the people involved with these, would you guess are connected to a secret society?
so pulling a straw man on me, and saying oh look the federal reserve is much more corrupt that the Freemasons, really does not help your argument.
I agree that the media have been infiltrated and today control public opinion, they chose what is aired and what is not, they create allot of peoples realities, spoon feeding the ideas and agendas en masse!
I also believe that the powerful men that composes the top elite of the world, have direct ties to secret societies.
And you misunderstand something completely, I do not think that the Freemasons are the top of the pyramid, I actually speculate that you are in the bottom of the hierarchy in the world of secret societies.
Blue lodge is obviously the entry barrier, where you sought through the various scrubs that apply. Then they are filtered through either the York or the Scottish rite! Then they advance up the line to things like Knights Templars, Rose Croix etc, and then on to even more secret and prestigious societies, are they deemed worthy!
THIS IS A THEORY! IT IS NOT PRESENTED AS FACT; AND YOU HAVE NO FACT THAT DISPROVES THIS! ERGO THIS IS NOT DEBUNKED!
You make the claim about ultimate arbiters indirectly!
I have seen it over the 7 years I have been here on ATS, your main argument is; YOU ARE NOT MASON ERGO YOU KNOW NOT WHAT MASON IS!
Your hypothetical situation is so biased towards the mason, that it is a joke really!
And your claim, that anyone critical of the secret society structure (hereunder; masonry) is a loon, devoid of logical and rational thought, therefore the mason is right, just reeks of pro-masonic propaganda.
I always investigate a source, ALWAYS! Again stating that anyone critical of masonry, does not check their sources from multiple accounts, is just plain wrong.
I really stopped reading your reply, I was actually getting nauseous!
You are lifting masons up to some pedestal, and completely ignoring any critical thinking in the process.
I know what I have seen over the last 7 years, and while it is not particularly bad right now (it has been worse) I am seeing this trend escalate once again.
How am I to know you aren't a mason, you look like a mason, you talk like a mason.
You surely go out of your way to defend their integrity and honor, for someone not initiated into the craft.
My favorite poster here on ATS is a mason, thats no secret. However this has nothing to do with the OP or my arguments.
Masons have enlightened me more than you could ever believe, yet again that has absolutely NOTHING to do with this topic.
You are their excuse to derail this whole thread, congratulations Mr Straw.
My 10 years of research has been thrown out of the window! I have seen the light, thank you sir.
Originally posted by JoshNorton
I am starting to believe that the 'shadow government' is the Jesuits. It seems they aren't Christians but are Luciferians.
Their art of deception and dissimilation has created many organisations and movements under different names - Zionists, Communism, Knights of Malta, Freemasons, etc, You name it, they seem to have created it - they play all parts, all roles.*
So you believe that Freemasonry is an organization or movement created by the Luciferian Jesuits. Your words.
You think they created the Zionist movement too.
You've been quite clear on your beliefs.
Originally posted by getreadyalready
reply to post by kallisti36
Lol! One of my favorite OPs to date!
If the forum is dying, because of experienced Freemasons sharing their reality with you and crushing all the silly conspiracies then I would say that is a win-win-win! Freemasons get to set the record straight. Frightened conspiracy believers get to see the silliness rebuked.
ATS gets to serve a purpose and become a center for elevated conversation and truth-seeking, standing true to the motto "Deny Ignorance."
So, the 6 or 10 Freemasons that I see in all of these threads, that consistently share everything possible, and offer to give first-hand accounts, and provide links to published material where all the secrets of Freemasonry are readily available seem like pretty good fellas to me, and they are doing an awesome job. Kudos!
Originally posted by wcitizen
reply to post by TribeOfManyColours
I have absolutely no idea what this post is supposed to be saying.
Calling anti-masonic theorists silly is to good of an argument to counter, you sir have proven that Freemasons are good upstanding citizens all the way!
My 10 years of research has been thrown out of the window! I have seen the light, thank you
This is a conspiracy forum. It is here so we can discuss conspiracy theories. This sub-forum is made for the debate around secret societies. Freemasonry is a secret societies. If we cannot discuss theories about Freemasonry in this forum, with getting a thread DERAILED by OFF TOPIC posts, and Masons, personally attacking and poster critical of Freemasonry, then where can we?