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UK plans to block all porn in effort to 'protect children'

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posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 12:02 AM
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reply to post by Rosha
 


You know Rosha...
I will say one thing that could almost be considered a compromise

Years ago, they were talking about instituting a .xxx domain and any adult websites should use the .xxx extension.
If they decided to break out a few different ones like that .xx1, .xx2, .xx3 lets say, and required all adult sites and services to use one of those domains...I would be in favor of it.

Then its as simple as limiting access on your personal computer to exclude any .xx1 xx2 or xx3 extensions...problem solved.

The opting in leaves a paper trail for the household that could and will be used for blackmail, for insinuation, and ultimately for very negative consequences.

the censorship -must- remain in the household and anonymous. but the government can spend some time, if they truely were trying to help out familys, by regulating what extensions an adult website must use.


I bet you won't hear much about that though...because this measure is NOT to protect kids...its to capitalize and control..and get people used to government regulation of information, followed by censorship

You want to fight for protection of kids from porn online...fight for that measure that most agree with.




posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 12:13 AM
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Originally posted by SaturnFX
reply to post by Rosha
 


You know Rosha...
I will say one thing that could almost be considered a compromise

Years ago, they were talking about instituting a .xxx domain and any adult websites should use the .xxx extension.
If they decided to break out a few different ones like that .xx1, .xx2, .xx3 lets say, and required all adult sites and services to use one of those domains...I would be in favor of it.

Then its as simple as limiting access on your personal computer to exclude any .xx1 xx2 or xx3 extensions...problem solved.

The opting in leaves a paper trail for the household that could and will be used for blackmail, for insinuation, and ultimately for very negative consequences.

the censorship -must- remain in the household and anonymous. but the government can spend some time, if they truely were trying to help out familys, by regulating what extensions an adult website must use.


I bet you won't hear much about that though...because this measure is NOT to protect kids...its to capitalize and control..and get people used to government regulation of information, followed by censorship

You want to fight for protection of kids from porn online...fight for that measure that most agree with.



As far as I knew the sex industry was offered the xx domain compromise years ago..they refused to self regulate and used people such as yourself to whip up a 'oh no censorship' fluff then which allowed them to continue on because no governement elected via money and popularity had the balls to do it anyway.

Also, if you think that there is no paper trail NOW...that every site you go to isnt already tracked..every credit card porn buy up isnt already 'paper trailed' and couldn't be used for nefarious ends right now...then you'd be seriously niave. Its a poor excuse to uphold fear adn individual want in order to deny children the rights and freedoms they need and are inherrently are entitled to.

More to the point:
If there is truely 'nothing at all wrong' about using porn, then where's the threat?
If, as you and many others have stated, porn is perfectly fine and healthy and there is nothing "wrong" with it etc...then why fear what might be done with any info that shows you have been accesing it?
Afraid of what pay out you'd get if somone knew what kind of porn you were accessing? Shame about accessing it at all? If there is no problem..whats the problem?



R




edit on 20-12-2010 by Rosha because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 12:25 AM
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Originally posted by Rosha
As far as I knew the sex industry was offered the xx domain compromise years ago..they refused to self regulate and used people such as yourself to whip up a 'oh no censorship' fluff then which allowed them to continue on because no governement elected via money and popularity had the balls to do it anyway.
No, I was always a supporter of that measure and wondered why it never got much traction..of course, this was 15 years ago so it wasn't as large as it was now..but I seen where the internet was going back then, and thought it would have been much easier to introduce the domains back then.
Another thing I am a fan of is the overhaul of all the domains. .sci for peer reviewed scientific articles, .pub for news and other publications, etc.
the country code is simply stupid for a decentralised utility.


Also, if you think that there is no paper trail NOW...that every site you go to isnt already tracked..every credit card porn buy up isnt already 'paper trailed' and couldn't be used for nefarious ends right now...then you'd be seriously niave. Its a poor excuse to uphold fear adn individual want in order to deny children the rights and freedoms they need and are inherrently are entitled to.

Thats a different argument all together. yes, the ISPs have no right in holding the information they have for their clients. That in itself is a breach of trust between client and provider..and that fight is raging on elsewhere.

The internet is, to people like me, sort of like holy ground. It is the one scrap of freedom left on earth and the one thing that, so long as it is left untamed, will be what pulls us out of primitive violent society and into a bright future.
With anything, there are dingy areas, however, it is better to personally navigate through what you don't want verses give way to the iron fist of overbearing government start clamping down on the information flow.
Give them an inch and they will take the entire net. This is not some paranoid delusion. Here in the states, they have been trying really hard to remove net neutrality (aka, make the net a subscription package thing verses a do what you want thing)..
Check my newest thread out.

Hopefully you will see how it really isn't about the kindhearted world governments trying to make sure poor timmy never knows what a breast is...its something very dark and threatens to eliminate this progress machine that can topple entire governments with reason. I understand how a single piece of law here, a regulation there can at the time seem great...and no doubt all totalitarianism sounded pretty good initially with some rules here, changes there..clamp down on this for protection, etc.



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 12:35 AM
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Other than building a database of those persons who like a bit of porn on top of their internet content, it sounds to me like this opt in measure will make the ISPs a lot of money. It could well be the beginning of ISP monopolies over content and specialised websites where not only are you paying your connection fee but an extra fee for accessing certain sites. Kind of like a pay per view for the internet.

Like a walled garden where our generous ISPs provide us with generic, ad laden, mindless websites with out standard connection charge and in order to see ANYTHING else on the net we will have to pay for the priviledge.

Unfortunately though I'm beginning to feel like Facebook and other entertainment type sites are what is generally considered the Internet these days and I'm not sure whether many would notice the difference if sites like ATS were restricted



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 12:38 AM
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Originally posted by dipswitch
Like a walled garden where our generous ISPs provide us with generic, ad laden, mindless websites with out standard connection charge and in order to see ANYTHING else on the net we will have to pay for the priviledge.

Unfortunately though I'm beginning to feel like Facebook and other entertainment type sites are what is generally considered the Internet these days and I'm not sure whether many would notice the difference if sites like ATS were restricted


Dipswitch:
Breaking news Wireless carriers openly considering charging per service

Your conspiracy theory is actually a dead on fact...and they aren't even being subtle about it anymore



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 12:54 AM
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Originally posted by SaturnFX

Originally posted by Rosha
As far as I knew the sex industry was offered the xx domain compromise years ago..they refused to self regulate and used people such as yourself to whip up a 'oh no censorship' fluff then which allowed them to continue on because no governement elected via money and popularity had the balls to do it anyway.
No, I was always a supporter of that measure and wondered why it never got much traction..of course, this was 15 years ago so it wasn't as large as it was now..but I seen where the internet was going back then, and thought it would have been much easier to introduce the domains back then.
Another thing I am a fan of is the overhaul of all the domains. .sci for peer reviewed scientific articles, .pub for news and other publications, etc.
the country code is simply stupid for a decentralised utility.


Also, if you think that there is no paper trail NOW...that every site you go to isnt already tracked..every credit card porn buy up isnt already 'paper trailed' and couldn't be used for nefarious ends right now...then you'd be seriously niave. Its a poor excuse to uphold fear adn individual want in order to deny children the rights and freedoms they need and are inherrently are entitled to.

Thats a different argument all together. yes, the ISPs have no right in holding the information they have for their clients. That in itself is a breach of trust between client and provider..and that fight is raging on elsewhere.

The internet is, to people like me, sort of like holy ground. It is the one scrap of freedom left on earth and the one thing that, so long as it is left untamed, will be what pulls us out of primitive violent society and into a bright future.
With anything, there are dingy areas, however, it is better to personally navigate through what you don't want verses give way to the iron fist of overbearing government start clamping down on the information flow.
Give them an inch and they will take the entire net. This is not some paranoid delusion. Here in the states, they have been trying really hard to remove net neutrality (aka, make the net a subscription package thing verses a do what you want thing)..
Check my newest thread out.

Hopefully you will see how it really isn't about the kindhearted world governments trying to make sure poor timmy never knows what a breast is...its something very dark and threatens to eliminate this progress machine that can topple entire governments with reason. I understand how a single piece of law here, a regulation there can at the time seem great...and no doubt all totalitarianism sounded pretty good initially with some rules here, changes there..clamp down on this for protection, etc.



Good points...and I agree re the domain issue wholeheartedly.

That said, while you were making that point, several hundred thousand of the 1.4 million children abused each day around the world were sexually abused and their images displayed against their will on the internet for porn profit.

Over 1 million *individual*child porn images from the internet were collected by Operation Centurion in one hour...OC, being one single operation that only went on for less than 13,000 hours.

So many images and links to victims of paedophiles were found the operation had to prioritise who to rescue in order of utter grossness of the acts.

"Some of the images involve adults as well as children. The children range from babies to 18 years of age and they come from various countries. The real tragedy of this is that we don't know the origins of a lot of these children. We don't know whether these children are still being the victims of child abuse"

"In the 76 hours that the images were on the website, it received an extraordinary 12 million hits from almost 150,000 computers from 170 countries, including more than 2800 from Australia."


THESE are the people using people like YOU to hide behind, to qualify their existance, to legitimise their sexual 'freedom'.

How do you supose, without 'closing the door'...we protect these kids?
Not next year...tonight? Today?

Do you not think these kids deserve our best effoprt to protect them, our self restraint and some maturity on sexual issues?

Am I as an individual prepared to forgo my right to view *porn* completely or have a muzzle placed on how I can access porn in order to aid in their protection?

For one child, yes...for a million kids..you bet I am.
I dont *need* porn.
I do need to sleep with my own conscience each night.




Rosha.



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 01:07 AM
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Originally posted by Rosha

Good points...and I agree re the domain issue wholeheartedly.

That said, while you were making that point, several hundred thousand of the 1.4 million children abused each day around the world were sexually abused and their images displayed against their will on the internet for porn profit.

Over 1 million *individual*child porn images from the internet were collected by Operation Centurion in one hour...OC, being one single operation that only went on for less than 13,000 hours.

So many images and links to victims of paedophiles were found the operation had to prioritise who to rescue in order of utter grossness of the acts.

"Some of the images involve adults as well as children. The children range from babies to 18 years of age and they come from various countries. The real tragedy of this is that we don't know the origins of a lot of these children. We don't know whether these children are still being the victims of child abuse"

"In the 76 hours that the images were on the website, it received an extraordinary 12 million hits from almost 150,000 computers from 170 countries, including more than 2800 from Australia."


THESE are the people using people like YOU to hide behind, to qualify their existance, to legitimise their sexual 'freedom'.

How do you supose, without 'closing the door'...we protect these kids?
Not next year...tonight? Today?

Do you not think these kids deserve our best effoprt to protect them, our self restraint and some maturity on sexual issues?

Am I as an individual prepared to forgo my right to view *porn* completely or have a muzzle placed on how I can access porn in order to aid in their protection?

For one child, yes...for a million kids..you bet I am.
I dont *need* porn.
I do need to sleep with my own conscience each night.




Rosha.





Nice chewbacca defense...but it wont work

child pornography is not valid legal porn. the channels people get child porn through will not ever be censored considering they are back channels anyhow which is not controlled by anything.

You might as well give me stats of how many people got mugged while I was writing that, because its equal in relevancy.

incidently, child pornography could be wiped out in a instant of the loving government wanted to. it is stupidly easy to create a virus that tracks down specific signatures of files known about and immediately destroy the file.

Why don't they?

Because far too much money is made in the prosecution verses actually stopping it.



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 01:34 AM
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reply to post by sliceNodice
 


I'm sorry but I think your avatar looks like somebody who is watching PORN!

edit on 20-12-2010 by SLAYER69 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 01:53 AM
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Originally posted by SaturnFX

Dipswitch:
Breaking news Wireless carriers openly considering charging per service

Your conspiracy theory is actually a dead on fact...and they aren't even being subtle about it anymore


Thanks for the link. I just read the first page but that was enough for me. As you say "which packages will you choose then for your corporate sponsored internet subscription package?" and very nicely put. I say what premium will I pay for accessing the likes of ATS?

Back on topic: While I agree that porn is not for the eyes of children I do not think a blanket block is the way to go about protecting kids from it. We knew long ago that children should be supervised on the internet as I'm sure over the years we have all had some T&A pop up on some seemingly innocuous websites.

The only issue I have with this Government initiative (LOL - initiative) is that porn is just the beginning and it will not stop there. Then you can consider me done with the internet because it's just a matter of time before it will no longer be content of any substance.



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 02:00 AM
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reply to post by Rosha
 


Quite a few of the links you posted are bogus links. Don't work. Others are ALL OVER THE FREAKING PLACE, so instead of just giving me a link, direct me to the page(s) out of quite a few so I don't have to spend a few hours reading a whole bunch of other completely useless crap. I don't think I saw any actual data, just a bunch of tangent links and cartoons. Things like how females who were abused early in life are most likely to repeat such events, WHICH IS COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT. Please, provide me with some ACTUAL INFORMATION, AND PAGE NUMBERS. Now, let's start again.




I didnt respond to you because as I wrote, this isnt an issue of censorship or even about the morality of porn per say- it is about changing how people ACCESS porn..thats all..the rest ' omg they're taking away my freedom' is hype and fear mongering....as I wrote..this proposal would actually give YOU and everyone else BACK a freedom already stolen!


Please, quote me where I was fear mongering. I hope you can, cause I doubt you can.




Yes though, and IMO, it is is about wider social consequences and a lack of responsibility and it is also about upholding childrens' rights and children DO have rights - you get that dont you?


Okay, children have rights, but also everyone else. What rights are being taken away from the children? Well, if they view the porn, they are committing a crime and surely must be held responsible. They have that right, right? To be held accountable for their actions.




Google any point I made in my post and you will find a hundred articles thesis and diatribes on the issue for and against censoring porn, but very few on THIS topic which is - OPTING IN rather than OPTING OUT.


Instead of telling me to Google something when I ask for links, please provide a link. This does nothing to help your credibility. Why should I have to opt in when I already have to pay a monthly fee just to have the internet? If you are so scared of a child see a naked body, you shouldn't allow your children pretty much anywhere outside the house. Go outside and see some nice cleavage, or a really short skirt. You know they actually ban skirts in a town in Italy because it's too sexual? WHY NOT START DOING THAT TO PROTECT THE CHILDREN? No one is forcing a kid to use the internet, and it's usually the parent allowing the kid to us it, KNOWING FULL WELL WHATS ON THE INTERNET.




The research hasnt been done on that topic..on THIS topic yet and wont ever if people like you dont give it a chance to get off the ground to SEE the alternative in action! Its easy to win an argument when you dont let the other side have a voice or chance to proove itself!


So, there has been no research on the damage a child sees when they view porn in the internet? I am reading that right, right?




As for the rest..the other debate thats not on topic...well, I am not obliged to educate you to what is an obvious social problem to those who can read or see...and a non existent one to those who dont care, dont want to know or think they live in vaccumes where conseqences dont apply to them or only appy to them... but here, I'll do your work for you this one time...


What are you even talking about?

For the first link, how you say the children are telling us how they don't want to be sexualized, I don't see one single bit of that. All I see is a .pdf in a FREAKING BILL FORMAT, my god, with a bunch of he said she said bull****. No hard data. Also, something interesting from the link is how everywhere else in the real world the kids are being sexualized. Why not just get rid of every single billboard, every sexual commercial, anything sexual, because adults can't fun since it will hurt the children.




More to MY moral point - what if it was YOUR daughter banging five guys and getting pissed on and facials for fun and profit..what then? What if it was your son a bunch of dickheads were jacking into?...your wife getting done on some video by 100 blokes in a race to see how many guys she could # to brake some sick record? Or maybe your mother frragging some guy young enough to be your son?...How would YOU feel if YOUR son or daughter was jerking off to that? Is that really how you want your kids to know sex? Themselves?


If my daughter were to do that FOR FUN, I would okay. Why? TO EACH HIS OWN. What makes her happy would make me happy, even though I may not agree with the actions. If she were having fun, though. If my son were to do that, it better be because he wants to. If he wants to, let him. If he doesn't like it, he can just walk out. If it were my wife, I'd have to be okay with that first, because you know the whole deal with marriage. That's a completely different area, however, that deals with years of trust. If my mom wanted to do some younger dude, I'd actually probably be happy for her considering how much her life sucks. If my kids got off to that, that's their own interest. I'm not gonna tell them they can't get off to what they want. What people do for pleasure doesn't degrade who they are, if it's not hurting anyone.




Really? You DONT find a problem with it? Do you care? Does it matter?


Nothing matters once we die.

And then some other links that didn't work for me.



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 02:29 AM
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Rosha -- nice try ... many of them, however, when you or ANYone else restricts my ACCESS to any information, it is censorship and not welcome in America and i cannot believe it is being contemplated in the UK. Yes, some things have gotten by over the years but the internet freed us like never before and shall never be 'limited' by anyone.

The govts need to stop spending my/our money attempting to defeat the impossible. Even without the net, ppl will communicate. Even without the net, ppl will and do, remember. Ppl who support this are not freedom minded or freedom seeking individuals. AND, even with censorship, children will ACCESS porn, especially when they find it under your mattress. Ok, perhaps not your mattress, but a friend's, i assure you ... it is inevitable.

Now please, step back and re-evaluate your child's rights ... is your child age 18 or emancipated and an American ?? if no to either question, they have no rights. Care to try again.

Unless the child can represent themselves in a court of law, file a motion, vote, submit a case inquiry or volunteer themselves (without adult permission), they have no rights like you presume. Their rights (to privacy, freedom of speech, redress of grievances) is purely subjective to the adult in charge, period.



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 02:29 AM
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edit on 20-12-2010 by Honor93 because: duplicate post again ... am i doing something wrong guys?



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 03:46 AM
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Oh no! Think of the children!

Oh please, I watched my first porn when I was eleven, and I turned out fine. In fact i'm more sensible than my christian counterpart who got his girlfriend pregnant at 18. What next? You're gonna stop your kids from masturbating? Make them wear a chastity belt because it is "immoral"? Give me a break. Maybe you people should worry about "Worse" things like extreme violence on TV, or violence in disney movies. Yeah, there's violence in disney movies, get rid of it. Eh? You want to shelter the crap out of your kids? Make them grow up to think continents float on water and you can swim under it?

Sheltering does nothing for a childs development, if a kid is having sexual urges, he/she will seek out pornography. If there is no pornography, you don't think the kid will seek out other methods of satisfying that early curiousity? Maybe having sex with other kids? The moment you tell that kid that these urges are "wrong" is the moment things start #ing up and the kid begins having a guilty consience every time he/she masturbates. Get off your high horse.
edit on 20-12-2010 by Somehumanbeing because: (no reason given)



add: I expect the super-conservative to begin calling me a peverted freak of nature.
edit on 20-12-2010 by Somehumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 03:55 AM
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One thing i find funny is that many things claimed about children and porn is bull.

Children under puberty think porn is gross.
And many older ones already know what is going on.
You can see this in the teen pregnancy rates.

I am a life long nudist that went to nudist camps from before I can remember.

The teen pregnancy rates among nudist teens is almost zero.
The number of life long nudist the become pedophiles is almost zero.
The number of life long nudist that physically abuse there spouses is almost Zero.

I don't see what people see in Internet porn. i find its boring.
The only sites i go to are nudist sites and that is to check out new places to go on vacation.

When teens go to porn sites it to learn about sexuality.
And in most cases its because they can not communicate with there parents.
In almost all cases these are teens of sexual repressed parents.

These sexual repressed parents are the ones that complain most about porn on the internet.
And are the one most likely to be viewing porn on the internet.


edit on 20-12-2010 by ANNED because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 03:57 AM
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Right folks, I'm a mother, living in England with internet access. In all my time with my lads on the internet, not once did they access porn. Cus mummy always checked the history and mum would of told them"" boys go to prison if they watched the naughty girlies on the pc screen", and they knew what happened to litlle boys in the showers in prison.
Seriously though, Our government at the moment is trying hard to get families and childcare and children being children, back on track. In this day and age most teenages think sex is porn and easy available with no consequences. Most teens think sex is being humped in all positions with multiple partners, and have no idea how to form a long lasting partnership.
Now bear with me on this.... Parents do put parental blocks on sites, but Jonny can go to his mates and access porn from any technical device they have. So how to solve the problem? Opt in? Do you really think the government cares what porn your watching so long as its legal? How many millions will opt in when they realise this? Your computers are tracked now. They already know. If you opt in for porn and webcam porn thats your legitimate choice. They are not banning it completely. Their other motive is to stop child porn. This is the most single handed sure fire way of monitoring and catching the scum that do this. Ok it will probably go to the streets with dvd's but hell it can be under survailance then.



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 04:24 AM
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y'all make me laugh ...

child porn is as old as the oldest profession
child curiosity arrives with birth
parenting is a lost art
and parents need to quit acting like children.

the XXX issue is being resolved and has been actively worked on since June 2010 (compared to active attempts to censor it since 1998 or earlier) ... abcnews.go.com...

I vote for MORE nudist living everywhere !!!! Wear your conscience, strut your style and be recognized for who you are not what you consume.



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 05:54 AM
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There is no going back to playboy magazines after watching internet porn



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 06:20 AM
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If there weren't so many government safety nets, it would force parents to step up to the plate and be responsible parents that teach their kids about sexuality and responsible control of sexual urges.

To think that this ban on pornography would deter curiosity and/or inherent urges of sexuality is absurd. Kids have urges and for the most part are both confused and curious about them because the general view in todays society is that sex is bad or dirty and sexual thoughts should be repressed. This is true of both religious and secular culture. IMO Kids today are more in tune with the violent urges in them than the natural sexual ones, which makes for a culture whos views on sexuality and meaningfull relationships are repressed and at times warped and eclipsed by more selfish agressive tendancies.

Kids by their nature, are allways questioning; and to ban pornography would just further peak their interest in their often unanswered questions about sexuality. Do we want the formative years of youth riddles with half truths and outdated views of human sexuality? Or do we instead strive for an open and honest discussion of one of the most beautifull and natural atcs of human nature? I hope for the latter.



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 06:32 AM
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Originally posted by Honor93


Now please, step back and re-evaluate your child's rights ... is your child age 18 or emancipated and an American ?? if no to either question, they have no rights. Care to try again.
.



Say's it all really doesnt it....and you have the hide to wonder why people hate these 'values'.
"If it aint "free" 'merikan and over rootable age it hasnt got rights" yeah right.. ..will be sure to pass that one on :/

Still..you are of course entitled to your own personal world view....wether or not it includes the reality that other people may view freedom differently to you.


try this though:
www.cirp.org...

and here:

www.cirp.org...

Forget 'out there' even..and just try looking at a child one day and telling them they have no rights.

As the ultimate bearers of the consequences of our actions and inactions..they have EVERY right.

There is an entire world of people out here, out side of rutting = freedom viewpoints who are standing up for childrens rights...who dont need to be told children have inherent human rights or have those rights explained to them, they just 'know' they just 'get it'.
These people dont need to be taught how to restrain themselves and be adult, they've already grown up, they naturally respect the rights of others as they respect themselves....they are people who own their own bodies and minds and dont need or desire to exert control over others by adding to the demand for child porn and sexual insanity by feeding it or condoning it in silence..people who know that restraint is a sign of maturity it isnt restriction and they've learned 'free' sex isnt and they know that sex is not the pinicale of human experience or all there is to life love and living. Call me whatever you like I dont care. Im not ashamed to be one of them.


If you think the absence or presence of censorship is the only key to freedom though, its not me thats wrong or deluded. Im not the sheep being led to believe that deception. Freedom, real freedom can't be won or had for long without claiming the burden of responsibility and vigilance. It cant ever be an earned or just freedom if it exists at the expense of the lives freedoms and rights of others...especially the rights TO life, of children.

Maybe one day you will get that ....but by the looks of it, not any time soon.

g'night...


R



posted on Dec, 20 2010 @ 07:18 AM
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Originally posted by Gnarly

Quite a few of the links you posted are bogus links. Don't work. Others are ALL OVER THE FREAKING PLACE, so instead of just giving me a link, direct me to the page(s) out of quite a few so I don't have to spend a few hours reading a whole bunch of other completely useless crap. I don't think I saw any actual data, just a bunch of tangent links and cartoons. Things like how females who were abused early in life are most likely to repeat such events, WHICH IS COMPLETELY IRRELEVANT. Please, provide me with some ACTUAL INFORMATION, AND PAGE NUMBERS. Now, let's start again.



All my links work I just checked them. If they're not suitable to you or you are too lazy to do the reading, thats not my problem. go do your own investigation and see for yourself.

Revictimisation, or self abuse-post early childhood abuse IS extremely relevent when it comes to the porn industry..expressivly so. If you dont know why..its not my job to enlighten you..big free old you go do the reading and hard work of finding out for yourself.





Please, quote me where I was fear mongering. I hope you can, cause I doubt you can.



You said that this proposal would take away your right to view porn or would censor porn..it wont. READ the proposal. If you absolutely DIDNT say that..then I stand corrected.




Okay, children have rights, but also everyone else. What rights are being taken away from the children? Well, if they view the porn, they are committing a crime and surely must be held responsible. They have that right, right? To be held accountable for their actions.



As do you, and the porn industry moreso, for contributing to the delinquency of minors and by refusing to self regulate.
Children are not lawmakers or adults. That doesnt mean they dont have a political voice or deserve the right to protection.




Instead of telling me to Google something when I ask for links, please provide a link. This does nothing to help your credibility.


Its not my credibility at stake here. I am not on trial and I have no need to justify anything to you, the reality of life for womena nd children in our societies and the degredation of children and women world over is evidence enough, the truth speaks for itself. I did provide links to relevent points..the rest *is* up to you, again, I am not your secretary.




Why should I have to opt in when I already have to pay a monthly fee just to have the internet? If you are so scared of a child see a naked body, you shouldn't allow your children pretty much anywhere outside the house.


Why should we have to pay for expensive programs to opt out so you can jerk off for 'free'?
I live in a city and share this city with men..I pay my yearly land rates and taxes too the same as them..I dont pay for their nights in brothels however..thats theirs not mine to pay...same location doesnt mean I am responsible to pay for how they meet their PERSONAL needs.

Same deal with the net. You use..you pay...why should everyone else!

My children see naked bodies all the time, this isnt about naked bodies or healthy sexual exploration..its the perversion of healthy sexual exploration...its about retaining the right to CHOICE. This is about abuse and violence dressed up as sex and abusers and violent offers using those platforms to target and sexualise children to a particular viewpoint, and for some, using hte anonmity and hiding place of the net to commit and justify crimes.




Go outside and see some nice cleavage, or a really short skirt. You know they actually ban skirts in a town in Italy because it's too sexual? WHY NOT START DOING THAT TO PROTECT THE CHILDREN? No one is forcing a kid to use the internet, and it's usually the parent allowing the kid to us it, KNOWING FULL WELL WHATS ON THE INTERNET.


No one is forcing you to breath air either..yet you do. All we are being asked to do in this proposal is to help close a door on the bedroom of public sex on the net...and thats is too much for you?





So, there has been no research on the damage a child sees when they view porn in the internet? I am reading that right, right?



No.I said the research on the benefits of OPT IN hasnt been done yet..becase every time someone suggests acting in 'shockingly mature and responsible manner' about potentially abusive locations for adult sex, people such as yourself decry it...yet you go on to whine and blame the 'world' for your social problems and lament the decay of society at large, and wonder why and how it got there!
What did you expect would happen?




--
As for the rest..the other debate thats not on topic...well, I am not obliged to educate you to what is an obvious social problem to those who can read or see...and a non existent one to those who dont care, dont want to know or think they live in vaccumes where conseqences dont apply to them or only appy to them... but here, I'll do your work for you this one time...
---

What are you even talking about?



YOU DONT LIVE IN A VACCUME - that is what I am talking about..EVERYTHING has a knock on effect and if you are not willing to step up to the plate to be accountable for the knock on effects of YOUR choices and the result of your demands for 'rights' without the inherrent responsibility that comes with having them then dont make or claim them! Clear enough?




For the first link, how you say the children are telling us how they don't want to be sexualized, I don't see one single bit of that. All I see is a .pdf in a FREAKING BILL FORMAT, my god, with a bunch of he said she said bull****. No hard data. Also, something interesting from the link is how everywhere else in the real world the kids are being sexualized. Why not just get rid of every single billboard, every sexual commercial, anything sexual, because adults can't fun since it will hurt the children.


What you read IS hard data preapred by people who know what they are talking about who have to deal with the real life consequences every day - authorites on the subject of 'affect'. If that isnt authortative enough for you, thats not my problem. GO to your own statistical board and see there. Again I am not your secretary. DO YOUR OWN RESEACH stop expecting to be spoonfed




If my daughter were to do that FOR FUN, I would okay. Why? TO EACH HIS OWN.


b*llsh*t!

Forgive me if I do not believe you...or in your idea of what fun is.



What people do for pleasure doesn't degrade who they are, if it's not hurting anyone.


That's the point - IT IS hurting others. You're just not hearing that..you dont want to.
None are so blind...



Nothing matters once we die.


So those that come after you and have to clean up your mess dont matter..dont count..so long as you can access your porn anytime anywhere anyway you like the worlds a good secure fun place right....right.

Good luck with that.

Die well.


Rosha



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