reply to post by SeaWind
Tiger5, I'm not sure who you're addressing, but since Macbeth isn't here....
1.) "Wow now someone finds a 13th level in the OTO well Crowley must be spining in his grave. The OTO only has an 11 degree initiatory system."
SW: First of all, I don't know where Macbeth got the story about Crowley and the 13th Degree. There are MANY stories about Crowley floating around
Your last line is an understatement SeaWind, yes, a ton of stories about Crowley.
For the record, I'm no follower of Crowley, nor am I an expert on his systems. I came to accept him as potentially important in the grand scheme of
things, because he seems to have been highly respected by powerful people, including Winston Churchill, who was supposedly taught the "V" (for
victory) sign, that soon morphed into the "peace" sign.
As for the "13th" degree, there is a lot of confusion on this matter, and I think it is by design. Crowley himself only seemed to go as "far" as
the 11th degree, which he identified as "inscrutable", and yet he was the Frater Superior at the time, and went so far as to call himself Baphomet.
How was it that there was a "12th" degree theoretically "above" him? Deception was seemingly built right in, so that the profane would simply
jump to all the wrong conclusions.
It's not unlike other branches of freemasonry, that have been claimed to maintain secret parallelism, which amounts to a duplication of degrees. For
those not familiar with the concept, it goes something like this:
The initiate is given a "difficult" task to do, based on where they come from. Perhaps in a Christian nation, where Christian pretenses are
maintained, the task might be to simply "spit" on the Bible. Recall that masonry is probably biggest in the "bible-belt" of the USA, so my
example should have some relevance.
The candidate is faced with a decision. He either spits on the Bible, or doesn't. In BOTH cases, he is "promoted", being told that he has chosen
well. As the years go by, the "good" guy who would not spit may well wonder why he never went very far, while others around him went up the ranks.
I was actually hoping that someone with more knowledge than I might share what they know. Annunaki for example, who is into the Gnostic. Well, one
of the things the OTO has said is that they are at the head of ALL pagan and gnostic religions, whether the followers know it, or not. Certainly the
connection between the Gnostic Catholic Church and OTO isn't a huge secret, unless I'm confused.
No, this is not intended to put the OP on the spot, it appears that he is just as curious about these things as I might be. Again, I'm just hoping
that someone else will have more info.
Finally, as regards to the Illuminati, or whoever might be running the show, Crowley did seem to have high connections. I don't know if he really
was friends with Churchill, but he was apparently a "spy" during WW2, since he was recognized by the German lodges. Note also that the Swiss OTO
did have 13 degrees at one point, I don't know how they might be now. From what I can tell, this is often just brushed-off as an attempt to sync
with York Rite masonry, that Crowley apparently held as superior to the Scottish Rite. One of his quotes about the OTO, post his various changes was
that the OTO Eighth Degree "wiped their arses" with the 33rd Degree. Obviously, infighting was going on. Note also a figure like L. Ron Hubbard,
who later went on to supposedly challenge the CIA, from within, with his Dianetics organization. OTO is still in the middle, at least in terms of the
recent history of the past 7 or 8 decades.
Conspiracies and "agendas" out of this crowd? I don't think it's such a stretch!