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Help save the United States!

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posted on Jul, 5 2004 @ 07:58 PM
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Here is a start!

You do not need to agree with another's ideology, you do not need to even support it. But as long as you support their right to live the way they wish to in their own State, you ensure the right that you can live how you wish, and have a society as you and your community's members wish.

It is selfish for you to force your ideology on others, just as you would not have them force their ideology upon you.

So support States' Rights, and help defeate Federal ideology being used to oppress one group while supporting another.




posted on Jul, 5 2004 @ 08:19 PM
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Interesting site.
I was gonna sign up for their email newsletter, but they wanted my IRL name and address



posted on Jul, 5 2004 @ 08:28 PM
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here another way. just dont vote for the party that cators to the whiney people. dont vote liberal and we wouldnt have a problem with this.



posted on Jul, 5 2004 @ 08:32 PM
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I was thinking of signing up for the news letter but didn't bother, I think the site's greater importance is that it is a point from which to begin the restoration of our Constitutional Union. Where people who believe in States' Rights, can finally look toward a man who actually stood up for them, but was betrayed by his own State.

As I told him in a message I hope he'll get, it is the ability of anything, person or State, to committ suicide, but that does not make it right.



posted on Jul, 5 2004 @ 08:46 PM
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Hmmm...well, for myself I don't see this as such an innocence measure. This is a web site supporting the Judge that wished to keep this monument in his court and then defied the Law to do so (the reason he needs a legal defense fund). He obviously could not back-up his actions legally so he resorted to illegal measures.



1) Defend America and her citizens' right to acknowledge Almighty God. Currently, the Foundation is heavily involved in the legal defense of former Chief Justice Roy Moore, including paying for outside attorney fees, as well as providing in-house counsel.

Who's God? Why would you back the force-feeding of one belief?



2) Educate the public about the U.S. Constitution and the Godly foundation of the United States of America.

Educate us like we are all "lost sheep" or simpletons that have lost our way and need guidance? If this is about letting people live as they wish without them forcing their ideology on us, as you state...then why support a Judge that wishes to do exactly that?



3) Promote public policy through appropriate legislation and other government actions. In other words, to assist in reestablishing society with good morals and values as set forth in the Holy Bible.

According to who? This Judge wishs to have everyone believe in the bible and follow it to the letter? What about the people that have other beliefs or no beliefs? This is why he committed and illegal act. He was not willing to understand the separation of church and state, and not willing to let people make their own choice.

[edit on 5-7-2004 by ZeddicusZulZorander]



posted on Jul, 5 2004 @ 09:11 PM
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I found this case very disturbing and this organization even more disturbing. Regardin the case of Judge Moore - I think every citizen should have the right to uphold and express their religious belief. And if the representation of the 10 commandments was a personal expression within his office that would be all fine and good. And regarding wearing religious jewelery, pins, etc. of course this should never be an issue and should not be grouns for firing someone (as in the Word case) - that is religious discrimination. Just as muslim women should be allowed to wear their veils if they choose christian men should be allowed to wear whatever lapell pin they choose. And just as the same muslim should be allowed to follow their required prayer times, so a christian should be allowed to place a representation of the 10 commandments in their office. However, this is not the same as placing religious symbols in public places on governement territory/buildings. That is completely different. It seems all fine and good to most christians because they are christian symbols we are talking about. But imagine if the majority of politicians turned out to be satanists and decided to start placing satanic symobls all over our courthouses and government buildings. What then would the christians be saying? Would they still fight for their right to display their religious symbols on public grounds? I doubt it. And this organization is striving to affect legislation - they want laws protecting, maybe even promoting, this right. But our government does not have the right to promote any one religion. In fact, it is just the opposite - they have an obligation to not promote any specific religion. That has nothing to do with their individual rights to believe and practice whatever religion they choose - this right I support fervently. But they do not have the right to promote or "state sponsor" any religion on behalf of the government and the people. Thus I find this organization very frightening.



posted on Jul, 5 2004 @ 11:28 PM
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Badkitty, I quite agree.

This organization is obviously trying to push the United States into a Christian nation, something I have fought against for years. It would also lead to a fractionization of the republic, with each state having increased autonomy, the US would not be a close-knit nation but a looser alliance of semi-independent nation-states. This would be disasterous for civil rights, the economy and general standard of living.

I would wonder if the currency could even stay the same value if states were able to set their own economic policy. Especially disturbing would be the economic effects upon inter-state metro areas, such as the Boston-Washington corridor in the Northeast and the Chicago-Milwaukee corridor in the midwest.

Even worse than the economic consiquences could be the changes in personal freedom one could expernce by just crossing an immaginary line. Say you were a homosexual, in a liberal state you could marry, and live knowing you were protected by law from harassment, now you decide to go vacation in a conservative southern state along the gulf, guess what, not only are you not married in this state but the act of having sex with your partner could get you sent to jail. Sound like a free or united country to you?

Even the mundane could become a major problem: lets say you're doing alright for yourself and decide to import a nice European sports car for yourself, perfectly legal in your state. Now you want to take your nice new car and drive to work, just over the state line, only problem is your car is illegal in that state.

The ideas of this organization are impractical, unethical and as badkitty rightly pointed out very frightening. Please considder the great things that a strong, secular federal government does for you before joining up.

Religious freedom is a right in America, and I will keep fighting for it.

May Peace Travel With You
~Astral

[edit on 7/5/2004 by The Astral City]



posted on Jul, 6 2004 @ 12:11 AM
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I don't have problems with addressing our nation government overpower but I have a problem with religious pushers, I am not a believer in religious organizations so I guess I can not agree with that web site.



posted on Jul, 6 2004 @ 12:20 AM
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Originally posted by The Astral City
Badkitty, I quite agree.

This organization is obviously trying to push the United States into a Christian nation, something I have fought against for years. It would also lead to a fractionization of the republic, with each state having increased autonomy, the US would not be a close-knit nation but a looser alliance of semi-independent nation-states. This would be disasterous for civil rights, the economy and general standard of living.

~Astral

[edit on 7/5/2004 by The Astral City]


Astral - two things, first in light of the "new iron curtain" that is being driven between the west and the muslim world I think the last thing we need is to emblazen our government with Christain symbols. That will only serve to fuel the fire - again, I'm not saying politicans should hide their religion on a personal level - but it cannot be politically supported.

second - while the idea of a bigger federal government scares me to death - we already see the results of the fracture you've addresed above. Our states do currently have a significant amount of autonomy and this has lead to inequality in our education systems, our welfare systems, our employment levels, our manufacturing capabilities, our civil rights (think about gay marraiges). I mean, I live in Illinois - you know were a bankrupt state? Chicago public schools are pretty bad due to inadiquate funding, we are a right to work state so you can get fired for just about anything (unless your a minority group). So many laws vary by state that you basically have to take a "state 101" course if you move accross a border in order to ensure you are legal.

Did you know that in the city of Chicago it is illigal to fish while sitting on a giraffes neck? Literally - it is. Check out dumblaws.com. We are a mess already - let's not make it worse.



posted on Jul, 6 2004 @ 01:56 AM
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Badkitty, again I totally agree.

I live in Chicago currently too, but my university is up in Milwaukee (long commute) but yea I know how well the state has taken care of things.


Durring this past year I lived up in Milwaukee, and they don't have it any better, Wisconsin was broke too, and Milwaukee's public schools are almost as bad as Chicago's. Wisconsin has had some major friction between the Dems and the GOP lately, and their state government has almost ground to a halt as the Dem Govenor battles the GOP senate. Wisconsin and Illinois are both appealing to the federal government to help with funding schools and other nessisary government functions (like police and libraries.)

This leads me to believe that if the federals got less power than they have now most states would be screwed. In 2003 only a handfull of states were not in financial trouble and the problem is getting worse. I think that should states get increased autonomy they probably would go bankrupt, or have to cut services so much that schools would become impossible to keep open and the underprivilaged would end up worse off than they were in the old Robert Taylors. (For those of you not from Chicago, the Robert Taylors were one of the nation's worst housing projects, and life within them was akin to thrid world tentament slums. They were finally destroyed a couple years ago, but for as long as I remember they were one of the most depressing sights in the city)

May Peace Travel With You
~Astral



posted on Jul, 6 2004 @ 02:09 AM
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The ship has set sail. there are steps being taken as we speak... and there will be no Free Masons In the new System



posted on Jul, 6 2004 @ 08:17 PM
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Originally posted by Jaypeth
The ship has set sail. there are steps being taken as we speak...

The ship has set sail?
Feel like a little explanation here? Or, are we supposed to guess what you are talking about?



posted on Jul, 6 2004 @ 09:16 PM
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Yea, kinda cryptic there. I have heard that there are some shakeups going on with the people in power though, maybe they have something against masons?

Blessed Be
~Astral



posted on Jul, 6 2004 @ 09:30 PM
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Wow most of you seem to be pretty clueless.

First off, if you are against the Ten Commandments being in the Alabama State Court House, maybe you should be on my side anyway, because the Federal Supreme Court has a nice Marble sheet of them hanging above the Chief Justice's head.

This ruling was a violation of States' Rights, as much as hypocritical.



posted on Jul, 6 2004 @ 10:03 PM
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Originally posted by The Astral City
Badkitty, again I totally agree.

This leads me to believe that if the federals got less power than they have now most states would be screwed. In 2003 only a handfull of states were not in financial trouble and the problem is getting worse. I think that should states get increased autonomy they probably would go bankrupt, or have to cut services so much that schools would become impossible to keep open and the underprivilaged would end up worse off than they were in the old Robert Taylors. (For those of you not from Chicago, the Robert Taylors were one of the nation's worst housing projects, and life within them was akin to thrid world tentament slums. They were finally destroyed a couple years ago, but for as long as I remember they were one of the most depressing sights in the city)

May Peace Travel With You
~Astral


We seem to be peas of the same pod Astral.
You have given some excellent examples here. And consider as things like the education systems and employment vary more and more by state those who can afford to will continue to flock to those states that excell - and those who can't afford to will be stuck in states with poor systems. This will cause those states to spiral further and further up or down the economic ladder (depending on who's flocking there and who's stuck there) which will serve to further tear our country apart as the rift between the haves and have-nots continues to widen. In the long run this will only serve to weaken our contry - not strengthen it.

Yes I understand the argument for state autonomy - we can decide as a group what is best for us. But ideally - these should be things we decide as a NATION not as a subculture.



posted on Jul, 6 2004 @ 11:53 PM
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No, badkitty, Astral is so wrong I can't even believe I missed it.

You think States would go Bankrupt without the Feds?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

The Feds are the reason they are going Bankrupt. (debt actually).

The Feds burden states with Unfunded Mandates, which can account for as much as 50% of a State's expenses.

With a Constitutional Federal Government, those Unfunded Mandates would not exist...nor would the giant drain on the economy that is "income tax".



posted on Jul, 7 2004 @ 12:40 AM
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Badkitty, you've given some great arguments too. It's a pleasure to argue beside you.



FreeMason, Just one more problem with your little theory:

States would have to spend much more actually without all the money they get from the feds! Immagine if suddenly all the programs, services, entities and agencies that the Federal government funded with income taxes suddenly dissapeared, and states had to pick up the bill.

They'd also have to provide healthcare to the poor and elderly, costing them millions (if not billions in larger states.)

What about the Fed's major expenditure, the military? Are we going back to just state-funded militia groups? Not if I can help it.

Schools get federal funding, so too do police, fire departments, road repair crews and even garbage men. Without a strong federal government able to tax all citizens this money would have to come from the states, putting them further into debt.

And that's just the tip of the iceberg!

Sounds like a bad deal to me. I think I'll stay part of the union, the Fed may have problems, and I wouldn't like it getting much bigger than it is now, but I think it's power over the states is about right now. If you don't like the way the Supreme Court has ruled, well that's the way it goes, I don't agree with them every time myself, but such is democracy.

May Peace Travel With You
~Astral



posted on Jul, 7 2004 @ 02:18 AM
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I'm not American, but I feel that religion and politics should not be intertwined. How can an admin truly reflect the will of the people when they are basing their decisions on one set of beliefs. I was appalled to hear that the Catholic Church was going to start refusing communion to politicians that supported abortion rights.

Although IMO I think religion has done more to destroy society than to help it. I'll belive in God when I see him in the afterlife. Until then I'm not going to put too much faith into something that really has no proof of ever happening. Oh sure the Bible is a great piece of fiction but Tom Clancy is a great writer also. And by the way I don't mean to offend any religious type folks out there, these are just my opinions.



posted on Jul, 7 2004 @ 02:55 AM
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Face facts Free Mason, you are a Christian NAZI, and would happily roundup and do god knows what to those who disagree with you.

Free Mason, the only Free you think of is being free to do as you command people.

Control Freaks with crosses are still control freaks.

Hiel Christ! (right?) You got nice little uniforms lined up. Uniforms are a good selling point for Facist regimes. Lines and lines of identical clones. One, Two, Three, pray. Christian monoculture forever. Ban all science. Stop the progress of humanity in the name of religious traditions.



posted on Jul, 7 2004 @ 06:11 AM
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Originally posted by FreeMason It is selfish for you to force your ideology on others,
Indeed... so why are you doing it?



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