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Christians, Jews and Muslims - A Simple Question

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posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 02:26 AM
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Q: does atheism believe it is going to convince the whole world of non-belief or just belief in Jesus ?

Q: Why does research, discovery, diplomacy, art, music, sacrifice, compassion, feelings of love, or affectionate and caring relationships mean anything if it all ultimately comes to naught anyway ?

Q: If there is no God, on what basis is there any meaning or hope for fairness, comfort, or better times ?


Q: is the whole of the rest of the world just like where this man grew up and needs no hope ?

Q: has Mr Ricky Gervais ever been to Sudan or anywhere near Africa for that matter ?

Q: how ignorant is this man about worldly events and especially poor cultures like parts of India and the Islamic world ?

Q: how truly ignorant of the truth on planet earth are these people ?

worked it all out in an hour... (and the laughter in the back ground is just disgusting) so one can easily see that atheists must be a very limited few who have prospered, and also just how upset the rest of the world is with Atheism.

It is only Jesus who is in their head that they are trying to denounce so they feel there are no rules for their select group. But the Truth is inseparable because it is in their very language from birth and that is the imprinting.

I believe the religions of the world help others in more ways than Atheists could even imagine.

edit on 12/30/2010 by Cosmic.Artifact because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 08:50 AM
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Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact
Q: does atheism believe it is going to convince the whole world of non-belief or just belief in Jesus ?


Atheism is simply a personal belief. The zealous atheist may try to convince others of their reasons for lack of belief, though "atheism" has no goals.


Q: Why does research, discovery, diplomacy, art, music, sacrifice, compassion, feelings of love, or affectionate and caring relationships mean anything if it all ultimately comes to naught anyway ?


Those things have value to us now and don't rely on an ultimate end-goal. Also, atheism doesn't include a belief that such things "all come to naught". Atheism is simply a lack of belief in god(s).


Q: If there is no God, on what basis is there any meaning or hope for fairness, comfort, or better times ?


With no god such things have even more meaning. Though I posit that such things do not require any god(s) to have the meaning and value that they do.


Q: is the whole of the rest of the world just like where this man grew up and needs no hope ?


Most people need hope. The difference is whether you choose to embrace false hope.


Q: has Mr Ricky Gervais ever been to Sudan or anywhere near Africa for that matter ?


Who knows? But in such places people are still burned to death for "witchcraft". No gods come to save them and the place serves as evidence that superstitious beliefs cause real harm to human beings.


Q: how ignorant is this man about worldly events and especially poor cultures like parts of India and the Islamic world ?


Is the implication that belief in god(s) is valuable to the poor?


Q: how truly ignorant of the truth on planet earth are these people ?

worked it all out in an hour... (and the laughter in the back ground is just disgusting) so one can easily see that atheists must be a very limited few who have prospered, and also just how upset the rest of the world is with Atheism.


On the contrary, there are highly atheistic societies and countries today and several studies reveal that such societies have more prosperity and less sociological problems. There are threads on this very site linking to those studies.


It is only Jesus who is in their head that they are trying to denounce so they feel there are no rules for their select group.


Jesus is but one of the mythologies that atheism denounces but you are incorrect in assuming that atheists "feel there are no rules for their select group". All atheists adhere to basic rules of society. Those that don't end up dead or in jail.


But the Truth is inseparable because it is in their very language from birth and that is the imprinting.


What "truth" exactly are you asserting here? Can you provide falsifiable evidence to support your assertion?


I believe the religions of the world help others in more ways than Atheists could even imagine.


Some religions handle charitable activities, though so do secular organizations. Otherwise I would debate whether or not providing quick, easy answers (based on unproven assertions) to important human questions has any value at all. Ideas, answers and conclusions that operate for the argument from ignorance fallacy end up having negative real-world consequences. I contend that the world's religions do far more damage to our species than theists could ever conceive.


edit on 30-12-2010 by traditionaldrummer because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 10:01 AM
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reply to post by traditionaldrummer
 


totally hollow, meaningless, empty, words which do not address the real issues and fail to see with a Holistic mindset "the bigger picture" Atheism is the most secular belief system on the planet and I wonder how well they would fare say walking into southern India and trying to convince others there of their personal ideology ?

I believe Atheism is only able to attach themselves to Christianity because it is the only language on their tongue and in their minds, Christianity is the only Theism or other belief system they can attack, and in fact because most of the believers in this ideology are ignorant of other cultures and languages instead only their own. (stuck in a box, in a sense)

I also wonder sometimes when most imports here to America (like Indians) usually convert to Christianity and most of the time even before they arrive ? Christianity has gained a large following over that way and thanks to Bollywood in an indirect way.

Yet I do appreciate you answering and taking on my questions, though I believe they are totally empty and lack any cohesion relating to the rest of the planet, (in a sense your words have no meaning) therefore I will wait and see if any others wish to address some of them with a better grasp of History and global-mindset.

at any rate, thanks TD for the attempt to insert feeling and emotion into your response.


edit on 12/30/2010 by Cosmic.Artifact because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 10:07 AM
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reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact
 


Before you start accusing me of stalking, someone else suggested I respond to your questions via u2u.


Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact
Q: does atheism believe it is going to convince the whole world of non-belief or just belief in Jesus ?


A: This is a common misconception. Atheism is not a movement or an organization. It's merely a position on a single statement. Some atheists think that we should try to convince people to stop believing, others think it will happen naturally through socioeconomic forces, others still just don't care, while the 'new atheists' think it best to simply put out media that others can view at their own leisure. I'm in the 'socioeconomic forces' and 'new atheists' camp.



Q: Why does research, discovery, diplomacy, art, music, sacrifice, compassion, feelings of love, or affectionate and caring relationships mean anything if it all ultimately comes to naught anyway ?


A: Because we only have one life. If you have one life, it's best to make it a full one and to leave the best imprint on the world with it. Research? It improves the lives of everyone. Discovery? Is incredible, it fills us with awe. Diplomacy? Why the hell would you want to spend your life being belligerent when diplomacy is easier? Art? Art fills us with joys and passions and helps people communicate, why must we have an afterlife to appreciate it? Music? Same as art (it is an art after all). Sacrifice? We all must sacrifice something along the way as people, as those who think they've made no sacrifice really don't understand what it means. Compassion, feelings of love, positive relationships? They're incredible. They're the best ways to connect with other individuals. They're what make us human.

Now, a counter-question: What would the point of those things be in a theistic world? I don't see any difference between the two views with regards those things except for maybe scoring points to the afterlife with sacrifice and compassion.



Q: If there is no God, on what basis is there any meaning or hope for fairness, comfort, or better times ?


Hope? For humanity can come from a variety of places. I have hope for Africa, and regularly hope to
Fairness? By society.
Comfort? By people.
Better times? For all through all.



Q: is the whole of the rest of the world just like where this man grew up and needs no hope ?


Hope can come from anywhere. You don't need a supernatural world for that.



Q: has Mr Ricky Gervais ever been to Sudan or anywhere near Africa for that matter ?


Does it matter? He's a comedian. He does charitable work for his part. And hell, I live near Africa. About 308 miles away from it. I live in a nation that actually has a problem with African refugees, and we're a tiny nation, so it's even worse for us. And, oddly enough, it's the very religious individuals that aren't putting out a helping hand (except the Jesuits, who do a great job), whilst the atheists and free thinkers of our country have been more likely to put in a helping hand.



Q: how ignorant is this man about worldly events and especially poor cultures like parts of India and the Islamic world ?


I'm sorry, but the man was talking about a personal story of his deconversion. What does that have to do with anything? And what would religion add to any hope for those regions? Last time I checked, their problems were social and economic, with some added religious strife.



Q: how truly ignorant of the truth on planet earth are these people ?


Please, demonstrate what you mean by 'the truth on planet earth' and how 'these people' (I'm guessing you mean atheists) are ignorant of it.



worked it all out in an hour... (and the laughter in the back ground is just disgusting) so one can easily see that atheists must be a very limited few who have prospered, and also just how upset the rest of the world is with Atheism.


Wow...so, because a comedian tells a personal deconversion story and people laugh because of his delivery, timing, and setup (the man is a great comedian, and any comedian knows that a joke is all about delivering, timing, and setup), all atheists must be prosperous individuals? All atheist individuals must have led a stable life because of one instance of this? I'm sorry, but that just seems ridiculous. You're putting the words of one individual into the mouths of 500-750 million individuals.



It is only Jesus who is in their head that they are trying to denounce so they feel there are no rules for their select group. But the Truth is inseparable because it is in their very language from birth and that is the imprinting.


I'm sorry, but this is incorrect. We speak out against all theistic belief, including Islam, Hinduism, etc. It all depends on our societal priorities though. I, personally, live in a country that's 98% Roman Catholic, so why would I bother denouncing Hinduism? What would be the point? The Catholics would just go "Eh, you're right!"

Now, following is a video that shows that atheists are definitely not just concerned with Muslims.


As for needing no rules...Again, you're incorrect. I feel that I should be held to the same rules as all other individuals, the rules of my society. And that claim about religious truth being imprinted at birth, where is your evidence for this?



I believe the religions of the world help others in more ways than Atheists could even imagine.


How? If you truly believe that religions of the world help others in many ways, show me how. I sure as hell don't live in an example of this. In my nation religious thought is actively corrosive. It prevents basic procedures like divorce from being legal. It convicts hundreds of people a year for blasphemy. Imprisons! Please, demonstrate all of the claims you have made.

And here I thought you were actually being inquisitive.



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 10:11 AM
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reply to post by traditionaldrummer
 


I have no arguments or qualms to your responses but perhaps this would be a little bias on my part.


reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact
 


Perhaps, some of the concerns you have with Atheism can be further addressed by the articulate and intelligent Atheist; Christopher Hitchens. Like TradionalDrummer, he has a talent with words; whilst beautiful, still concise.



You don't have to change your belief system, just take some of the arguments and points into consideration and refute them if you so desire (or if you can). As stated earlier, Atheism has no "goals" - It simply is a lack of belief in God.

As stated earlier - Make a positive assertion - the burden of proof is on the asserter. Arguments from ignorance, usually have bad consequences.
edit on 30/12/10 by awake_and_aware because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 30 2010 @ 10:30 AM
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Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact

totally hollow, meaningless, empty, words which do not address the real issues and fail to see with a Holistic mindset "the bigger picture"


Atheism does not pretend to have those answers. It is disbelief. If you want to search for solutions to problems let's do so, though let's not pretend that religion(s) have them.


Atheism is the most secular belief system on the planet and I wonder how well they would fare say walking into southern India and trying to convince others there of their personal ideology ?


Indeed, atheism is a secular belief, though arguably not a system. Actually, trying to convince the destitute not to rely on superstition would probably be beneficial.


I believe Atheism is only able to attach themselves to Christianity because it is the only language on their tongue and in their minds, Christianity is the only Theism or other belief system they can attack, and in fact because most of the believers in this ideology are ignorant of other cultures and languages instead only their own. (stuck in a box, in a sense)


No, atheists reject ALL religious beliefs. You may feel they attach themselves to christianity most likely because you are a christian and they have cogent arguments against your personal beliefs.


I also wonder sometimes when most imports here to America (like Indians) usually convert to Christianity and most of the time even before they arrive ? Christianity has gained a large following over that way and thanks to Bollywood in an indirect way.


Indeed, christianity has many creative ways to convert others.


Yet I do appreciate you answering and taking on my questions, though I believe they are totally empty and lack any cohesion relating to the rest of the planet, (in a sense your words have no meaning) therefore I will wait and see if any others wish to address some of them with a better grasp of History and global-mindset.


I am fairly certain that many of the atheists on this board have a good grasp of history and global mindset and that is likely contributing to their atheism. As I stated before, there is a connection between religiosity and negative sociological problems. Perhaps you may desire to get a better grasp on this reality before denouncing atheism outright. I can only imagine that you believe my words "have no meaning" because you believe that religion provides some valuable resource that cannot be gained by other means.


at any rate, thanks TD for the attempt to insert feeling and emotion into your response.


Any time, brother. I hope one day you may come to understand that most atheists are not bad, ignorant, evil or any of the other negative things we're often perceived to be. We simply have a different answer to a single question.



posted on Dec, 31 2010 @ 04:51 AM
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Originally posted by awake_and_aware
You don't have to change your belief system, just take some of the arguments and points into consideration and refute them if you so desire (or if you can). As stated earlier, Atheism has no "goals" - It simply is a lack of belief in God.


oh really... then why all the seriousness, fund raising and podium preaching ect ?

why the militant actions, especially which has been shown me here ?

why all the long winded posts and stalking of my mindset also ?

why not just keep it to yourselves if it is a lack of belief in God ?

can these folks not raise money any other way, because I feel that is what this is all about...

specially the 4th question mark



posted on Dec, 31 2010 @ 04:57 AM
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reply to post by traditionaldrummer
 


is Atheism out to convert the world to non-belief ?

I seriously do not think we all need saved you know, doing this do you know what atheism looks like ?

surely something you claim that it is not... a movement/religion

is this is all in response to militant Islam, which Englishmen fear to the core !

get it right religion is not causing problems in the world, Atheism is...


edit on 12/31/2010 by Cosmic.Artifact because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 31 2010 @ 09:46 AM
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reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact
 



oh really... then why all the seriousness, fund raising and podium preaching ect?
He's travels the world debating believers, discussing arguments, philosophy, politics, ethics and more. He is an acompliced writer and critique. Fund raising? So what? It's a free market, he's not preaching anything "evil" or "irrational" - He makes his audiences think rather than blindly accept his words.

And so what if he's preaching...Preaching is not limited to religious views, and can extend to moral and social world-views as well.


why the militant actions, especially which has been shown me here?
Militant actions? Do explain further - who or what are you reffering to?

I would never express violence towards an enemy, i think the pen is mightier than the sword, but with fanatical theists (AND OTHER CULTS) inciting hatred and violence, we do need to defend ourselves.


why all the long winded posts and stalking of my mindset also ?
Exuse me? I'm here offering my side of the argument, it's called civil discourse, learn it - I have been polite so far. If you don't like my "long winded" posts your more than happy to ignore them, or leave. "Stalking of [your] mindset" - did make me giggle though



why not just keep it to yourselves if it is a lack of belief in God?
It's an important debate that separates 2 mindsets regarding an important question. I'm here to share my view, so people may open their minds, or understand my side of the coin. Atheism is not indoctrination, we arn't asking people to convert, only to think about reason. We never threaten anyone with eternal damnation or anything as immoral as that.


can these folks not raise money any other way, because I feel that is what this is all about...
I'm sorry you "feel" like that. Do you know in free open market - we have the freedom to write books, and if people are willing to buy them, you are allowed to make money? Oh what an unjust world!


Besides, religion has been doing this for centuries, God seems to a have a healthy desire for money.


specially the 4th question mark
Cool, don't think you'll like my answer.

Peace

A&A
edit on 31/12/10 by awake_and_aware because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 31 2010 @ 02:53 PM
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Originally posted by awake_and_aware
He's travels the world debating believers, discussing arguments, philosophy, politics, ethics and more. He is an acompliced writer and critique. Fund raising? So what? It's a free market, he's not preaching anything "evil" or "irrational" - He makes his audiences think rather than blindly accept his words.

And so what if he's preaching...Preaching is not limited to religious views, and can extend to moral and social world-views as well.

well religion does not preach then in a sense too right, because it is closer to a discourse in philosophy which I seriously doubt any of these Atheistic professors have any type of degree in. Can you show me his/their credentials in other words ?


Militant actions? Do explain further - who or what are you reffering to?

persistent preaching and debate using Darwin for scientific evidence and excluding philosophy totally in a sense. In other words, not holding a normal discussion but only refutation.


I would never express violence towards an enemy, i think the pen is mightier than the sword, but with fanatical theists (AND OTHER CULTS) inciting hatred and violence, we do need to defend ourselves.

try explaining that to the youngsters who are out on their militant mission crucifying any Theist they can find, albeit they can only find one type that happens to speak English, and in direct result of your and others actions who are preaching this form of non-belief.


Exuse me? I'm here offering my side of the argument, it's called civil discourse, learn it - I have been polite so far. If you don't like my "long winded" posts your more than happy to ignore them, or leave.

yes you are excused... your side only or both sides of the argument ? why can not Atheists see both sides ? does this have something to do with Holistic Vs Linear thinking and the age of a persons maturity ?


It's an important debate that separates 2 mindsets regarding an important question.

why the separation ? is this how Atheists see it ? can not Science and Philosophy work together ? besides which actually did come first, the chicken or the egg ? personally I believe it is philosophy which gave birth to experiment, you decide...


I'm here to share my view, so people may open their minds, or understand my side of the coin. Atheism is not indoctrination, we arn't asking people to convert, only to think about reason. We never threaten anyone with eternal damnation or anything as immoral as that.

yes but alot of Atheists are also here to only do just that, share their side of the view only and are not open to debate, this is where the word dictator comes from when I refer to dictation. The other side of the coin is only asking for consideration also, being that over 92% of earth (the planet earth I live on) is theistic, do atheists seriously think they are going to make all theists not believe ? or believe as they do ? or are Atheists only out for Christianity because they speak no other language nor do they provide credentials of their achievement.


I'm sorry you "feel" like that.

you do not have to be sorry, I am a man of the working class... I have a trade skill, something women love btw because somebody does actually have to keep this place running and not lose knowledge of our past and how our societies have come this point. It would seem Atheists are rich and Theists are mostly poor common man, as evidenced by the videos I have seen and also by my interactions with them (excusing the youngsters of course because alot of them still live at home)


Besides, religion has been doing this for centuries, God seems to a have a healthy desire for money.

yes but religion has missionaries all over the globe and even in places there is clear and present danger for them, where are Atheists ? sitting in the comfort of their office or living room and mainly in 3 countries on the globe, 3 of the most relaxed countries I might add, being the civilizations in which Christianity has built for them and has enabled them to not believe in it, namely #1 Britain, Canada and USA.

real smart fellas... like some get rich quick scheme is how it is beginning to look to me, now that is rape of a younger generations mindset if you ask me also, because Atheism is ignorant of history and philosophy and how we got here in the first place.


edit on 12/31/2010 by Cosmic.Artifact because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 31 2010 @ 03:05 PM
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reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact
 


You should know that most educated Atheists hold philosophers words very dearly to their hearts, the rational Aristotle for instance. We care a great deal about freedom of expression, and freedom of speech, but this means freedom to challenge religion, and may i add, without violence.

Here's a link with a few names, maybe you should read up on their positions, before attacking them. Most intelligent atheists have a desire for thinking and philosophy, i've even embedded Christopher Hitchens who often discusses philosophical ponderings.

Perhaps your familiar with the Bertrant Russel cosmic teapot anology of the Theist argument from ignorance?


If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is an intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense. If, however, the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books, taught as the sacred truth every Sunday, and instilled into the minds of children at school, hesitation to believe in its existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychiatrist in an enlightened age or of the Inquisitor in an earlier time.


What is your claim that Atheists cannot be moral, cannot contribute to philosophy? I say think again, and do some research.

I really don't know what you were implying with the "Hollistic". Perhaps an attempt to demean by argument by trying to define my thinking?

An atheists position is that they have a lack of belief. Faith is not a good exuse to believe in something that you don't even know exists, or can't even possibly attempt to define. And it's an amazing reality in which people think an ancient book written by man bears any truth as to the causation (if any) of reality. It's pressumptious, I'm not saying there is no God, but i'm not claiming to KNOW God, KNOW if God even exists.

It does seem too, that Pantheism seems to be Agnosticism with a sprinkle of faith. They believe "GOD" is nature itself, the universe. So every time we gain more knowledge about the universe, "GOD" simply changes - Which is pointless, might as well just call it "THe Force" or some other meaningless word.


edit on 31/12/10 by awake_and_aware because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 31 2010 @ 03:24 PM
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reply to post by awake_and_aware
 



I really don't know what you were implying with the "Hollistic".


Sorry to intervene here. Here is a link that explains that what Cosmic referring to. About Holistic knowing and thinking. Well, at least i think he means that.

Peace
edit on 31-12-2010 by Seed76 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 31 2010 @ 03:28 PM
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Originally posted by awake_and_aware
If you knew anything,

did I begin my refutation with an insult ? there is not much eloquence in your poetry my man..


you would know that most educated Atheists hold philosophers words very dearly to their hearts, the rational Aristotle for instance.

show me some up to date credentials and of how many cultures these professors of atheism are aware of...

Christian missionaries speak multiple languages because it is required of their missionary work. Also alot of them are teachers in public schools, I know a few of them actually... can you show me doctrines and degrees these Atheists hold ? I bet you can not, because as Isaac Newton has even quoted... not many of these professors have actually taught a collage course or even in a High School.


Here's a link with a few names, maybe you should read up on their positions, before attacking them. Most intelligent atheists have a desire for thinking and philosophy, i've even embedded Christopher Hitchens who often discusses philosophical ponderings.

can you show me his acknowledged degrees in these specified fields ?

I will be waiting on that also...


Perhaps your familiar with the Bertrant Russel cosmic teapot anology of the Theist argument from ignorance?

yes I am so you possibly have a win, but is he actually "current" philosophical mindset ? or have we taken off from there and moved on...


If I were to suggest that between the Earth and Mars there is a china teapot revolving about the sun in an elliptical orbit, nobody would be able to disprove my assertion provided I were careful to add that the teapot is too small to be revealed even by our most powerful telescopes. But if I were to go on to say that, since my assertion cannot be disproved, it is an intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it, I should rightly be thought to be talking nonsense. If, however, the existence of such a teapot were affirmed in ancient books, taught as the sacred truth every Sunday, and instilled into the minds of children at school, hesitation to believe in its existence would become a mark of eccentricity and entitle the doubter to the attentions of the psychiatrist in an enlightened age or of the Inquisitor in an earlier time.

I am not here right now to debate philosophy with you, but on the other hand I am here asking you for proof of degrees, places taught at and how many languages were or are spoken by the professors of atheism.

I would like some input on this instead of total capitulation or changing of the subject if you do not mind... this tactic of losing track of the argument is getting rather old and rather immature if you know what I mean ?

but to make another comment about what I was mentioning earlier, maybe this has something to do with Linear or Holistic thinking.


I really don't know what you were implying with the "Hollistic". Perhaps an attempt to demean by argument by trying to define my thinking?

so you prove my point very well then... for instance I am a left handed person
there are plenty of website available on the internet for you to type just that in your google or other browser. (Holistic vs Linear thinking) and you may further educate yourself before you may wish you engage me in true philosophical discussions. But atleast we have a submission that you are not fully aware much at all about philosophy nor psychology.


An atheists position is that they have a lack of belief. Faith is not a good exuse to believe in something that you don't even know exists, or can't even possibly attempt to define. And it's an amazing reality in which people think an ancient book written by man bears any truth as to the causation (if any) of reality. It's pressumptious, I'm not saying there is no God, but i'm not claiming to KNOW God, KNOW if God even exists.

yes I know the position of the Atheists, when then do you keep using linear thinking and keep trying to explain this to me ? what I am requesting of you is to step outside your box, I am not interested in accepting your doctrine because, well quite frankly... it is not "Heavy" enough, but rather weak and circular-logic.


It does seem too, that Pantheism seems to be Agnosticism with a sprinkle of faith. They believe "GOD" is nature itself, the universe. So every time we gain more knowledge about the universe, "GOD" simply changes.

this is cool and quite interesting to me also, maybe we can save this for another topic so we may not stray very far from this actual topic or the points being made (this is actually linear thinking, yes I do that too, indoctrination in society required that of me growing up lefty) so we can save it for another time and so we may not lose sight of the ball if you get my drift

edit on 12/31/2010 by Cosmic.Artifact because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 31 2010 @ 03:43 PM
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Originally posted by Seed76
reply to post by awake_and_aware
 



I really don't know what you were implying with the "Hollistic".


Sorry to intervene here. Here is a link that explains that what Cosmic referring to. About Holistic knowing and thinking. Well, at least i think he means that.

Peace
edit on 31-12-2010 by Seed76 because: (no reason given)


thank you seed, some people just will not accept any other truths than what they can perceive let alone see...

the link was mandated.



posted on Dec, 31 2010 @ 03:47 PM
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double post.
edit on 31/12/10 by awake_and_aware because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 31 2010 @ 03:53 PM
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reply to post by awake_and_aware
 


gosh I wish you would engage me like that style of response...

for you to better understand, Atheists have linear mindsets, on the other hand it is the Theists who use Holistic thinking.



posted on Dec, 31 2010 @ 03:58 PM
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reply to post by Seed76
 


I knew what he meant just not what he was implying by it.

Apparently i am narrow minded because i am unwilling to be convinced by the argument from ignorance.

"We know more about the universe and the super special being behind it all than you arrogant Atheists"

"You pesky atheists and your "Holistic" mindsets"

reply to post by Cosmic.Artifact
 


Let me get this straight, we are not coming from the arrogant position, or the threatening position, or the violent position, nor do we wish to convert people, I personally, like many fellow Atheists wish to to encourage them to be agnostic or at least do some rational thinking rather than pretending to be Gnostic.

Atheism is simply a lack of belief in the idea that man can reveal wisdom in regards to a supernatural deity that is behind the universe.

I'm guessing you don't really care about the teapot anology and the argument from ignorance because you are yet to rebut.

Don't expect me do your research for you, Asking me to find lists and names and qualifications, do you're own research - don't trust my words.

Besides, like i have said time and time again, Atheism doesn't have any "goals" or "ambitions" it's JUST a lack of belief. Like you lack the belief in Santa Claus theory, we consider THEISM irrational, Some religions are more irrational than others.

I love how you enquired as to the details of their qualifications rather than listening or learning the theories and understandings that they discuss or that they even infact references famous or noted Philosophers. Completely ignorant.

Even you should know that Philosophy doesn't deal in revealed wisdom. Religion does, many famous philosophers consider this" Argument from ignorance" very irrational, and illogical.

Although Religion makes metaphysical claims, it also teaches SOME decent moral and ethical concepts, but it doesn't cover up for the bad morals and the batSh*t insane beliefs.

""when one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion."

Just remember it's called religion because it's religion, not because it's truth or philosophy.




Now please tell me, what should i be opening my mind to?

edit on 31/12/10 by awake_and_aware because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 31 2010 @ 04:02 PM
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Originally posted by awake_and_aware
@Cosmic

Let me get this straight, we are not coming from the arrogant position


see using conversation like this Holistic response you have just given me actually takes time for me, and others to ponder, yes that is (think about) how best to reply to you and your logic. Do you see now what I mean by holding a "normal conversation" ?

in other words... (I) have to "think" about it... to better formulate my response.

meanwhile listen to this song here and ponder on these lyrics for just a moment, you can look them up online... for if you do choose to engage in "normal" conversation most of your true Science will most definitely lose to Philosophy and I fear you know this and it is why you will not engage (for Philosophy did actually give birth to experiment) you may want to look that up also.

next... and please any takers try to refrain from insult and language



edit on 12/31/2010 by Cosmic.Artifact because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 31 2010 @ 04:03 PM
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Originally posted by Cosmic.Artifact

get it right religion is not causing problems in the world, Atheism is...


Well, with all due respect, if you can say that 'religion is not causing problems in the world' with a straight face I don't believe you should be criticizing anyone else for a lack of understanding of the world and its problems. Also, your blanket assertion that atheism IS causing problems is not only unsupported by contradicted by much evidence.
edit on 31-12-2010 by traditionaldrummer because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 31 2010 @ 04:03 PM
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reply to post by awake_and_aware
 



I knew what he meant just not what he was implying by it.


My Apologies Awake, my bad.

Peace



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