So, where are the jobs?

reply to post by dawnstar

but, he isn't really getting a tax break, is he?? I mean for the most part, it's just keeping things they way they have been for the past few years....

The second half of the bankster/politician scam

You really did not think the bankers and CEOs would actually raise THEIR taxes did you? Believe me they do not!

In the above post I explained the direct method the banksters/politicians scam us. Here is the indirect method.

Lets start at the beginning.
From 1959 to 2009, fifty years, the money supply increased from 50.5 billion to 2026 billion dollars. Where did that money come from? More important where did my wealth go.

In the post above I explained where the money came from. It was "borrowed" into existence by the government, business and people. Think about it. During my life time the banksters created out of nothing 1975.5 billion dollars. They swapped this "nothing" for contracts of debt. Therefore that 1975.5 billion plus interest has to be paid back out of our WEALTH (goods, land and labor) No wonder Americans are broke! All because of a fraud cooked up and perpetuated by crooked politicians, judges and evil Banksters!

What else has that increase in the money supply done?

Because money is not capital, that is WEALTH, Mises concluded that an increase of the money supply confers no identifiable social value.

When new money is created it does not appear magically in equal percentages in all people's bank accounts or under their mattresses. Therefore money spreads unevenly, and this process has varying effects on individuals, depending on whether they receive early or late access to the new money

It is these losses of the groups that are the last to be reached by the variation in the value of money which ultimately constitute the source of the profits made by the bankers and the groups most closely connected with them.
www.lewrockwell.com...

Did you get that? This is the key point. When money is devalued the first pigs to the trough steal the wealth of the late comers. Newly printed fiat money does not create new wealth it just transfers it from the poor, who are always the last to the trough, to the rich who are the first to borrow the new money for their businesses. (Devaluation of the currency is normally called inflation because it makes the price of good go up, prices the poor and middle class end up paying.)

The typical American CEO is usually an accountant or MBA and therefore understands money. Because he understands money he is not about to take a pay cut due to devaluation of the currency or an increase in taxes. And if we look at the statistic he doesn't.

In 1976 A typical American CEO earned 36 times as much as the average worker. By 2008 the average CEO pay increased to 369 times that of the average worker. timelines.ws...

The CEO is actually paid five times MORE in “buying power” compared to 1976 while the rest of us are now paid a third of what we were paid in 1976. This is why raising taxes never hurts the ultra wealth, only the poor and middle class. With that big of a pay increase the CEO will still comes out ahead and pass the cost of his salary increase on to his customers and workers.

The price of gold indicates the steady devaluation of the US dollar as it's purchasing power is diluted by the ever increasing supply of fiat money.

Date.....$ /oz gold.. Money supply....minimum wage.....Pay in gold......CEO in gold
1959 .......35.25 ...........50.1 billion.........$1.00..................0.0284 oz.
1976 ......124.74 ........... $113 billion.......$2.30..................0.0184 oz............0.663.oz
2008 .....880.30........... $831 billion........$5.85...................0.0066 oz.............2.44.oz
2009...1,020.28...........$1663 billion........$6.55...................0.0064.oz.

Note: on 2009-12-01 the money supply was 2026.233


Gold price www.finfacts.ie...
Money supply research.stlouisfed.org...
Min Wage www.dol.gov...

I put together the full explanation in a reference thread Bloodsucking Bankers

reply to post by ProfEmeritus

Everyone seems to be missing the obvious point. The reason jobs are gone, is because for 20 years or so, due to NAFTA and other "fair" trade treaties, the GREEDY Corporate bastards have been sending American jobs overseas.

Prof E., as you well know that is only HALF of the story.

In 1970 Manufacturing jobs were 24.0% of the work force. Manufacturing jobs as of June 2010 were 11,670,000 or 7.58% of the workforce. So yes we have lost our manufacturing base, and that means we have lost our means of creating wealth.

Since the World Trade Organization was ratified by President Clinton in 1995 the USA lost 1,962,000 manufacturing jobs.

HOWEVER in 1996 Manufacturing jobs were only 10.2% so you can not blame NAFTA or WTO for the 14% job loss that occurred before ratification.

What else chased American business off shore or killed it?
First was all the red tape. OSHA and EPA were passed into law in the early seventies. Congress has been passing more and more laws regulating business ever since. All those regulations cost money and in some cases make the business completely illegal.

The second and nastiest cause was the leveraged buyouts of the eighties. Well run "wealthy" corporations were targeted by modern day pirates who borrowed money from banks, bought a large number of shares and seduced the rest of the shareholders into ripping apart the corporation to get the big pay off. After that what was left of the company was boxed up and shipped overseas. I knew a guy in Boston who made his living packing up factories and putting them on ships in the eighties.

New York Times: LEVERAGED BUYOUTS: AMERICAN PAYS THE PRICE
January 29, 1989

....These days, corporations seem to exist for the investment bankers....

In fact, investment banks are replacing the publicly held industrial corporations as the largest and most powerful economic institutions in America....

THERE ARE SIGNS THAT A VICIOUS spiral has begun, as each corporate player seeks to improve its standard of living at the expense of another's. Corporate raiders transfer to themselves, and other shareholders, part of the income of employees by forcing the latter to agree to lower wages.

So the loss of our manufacturing base happen long before NAFTA and WTO. Those treaties just added to the fleeing of US business.

(Places Tinfoil hat on head)
Here is a take on WHY the elite decided to move manufacturing to other countries: The Ultimate Conspiracy Theory!

Given that the elite control the media AND control Congress OSHA, EPA and the rest of the regulatory red tape would NEVER have seen the light of day without the Elite orchestrating it.

Sorry Progressives you are unwitting puppets of the bankers too

reply to post by Bicent76

...we have less farmers now then ever, and its just kinda scary right now....

Congress just passed the law that will drive all but BIG Corporate farms and a few hobby farmers out of business. For those who think the Tester Amendment "protects" small farmers think again. It only protects farmers who sell ALL their product DIRECT to the consumer within 275 miles.

Try hitting Monsanto with an asinine stipulation like that!

In other countries, thanks to TPTB, they have lost up to 75% of their farmers (Mexico) In time this led to food shortages, high prices and riots. Remember the USA grows 25% of the world's grain crop and as of 2008 U.S. government food surpluses have evaporated thanks to the Bio-fuel law.

If other farmers are as ticked off as I am and also have other jobs, you are going to see a lot of fallow fields these next few years.

There are 2.2 million farms in the USA, Only 70,642 gross over $500,000 (at a 5% net that is $25,000 a year) That means about 2 million farmers have other jobs!

It could get mighty interesting folks. Maybe the supermarket predators will finally learn not to cuss a farmer while their mouth is full.

reply to post by saltheart foamfollower

...Still think eliminate all income and property taxation and institute an across the board sales taxation...

FIRST get rid of the @#$%^&%^$ FEDERAL RESERVE!!!

If you have a cut artery and are hemorrhaging the first thing to do is stop the bleeding. This country is hemorrhaging wealth and the bankers are sucking it up!

If we can not get rid of the Fed here is another idea:

“Unless you’re North Dakota, you’re probably a state that has had some degree of difficulty or crisis involving finances. It’s the worst situation states have faced in decades, perhaps going as far back as the Great Depression in some states.” [Arturo Pérez, fiscal analyst with the National Conference of State Legislatures]

“Unless you’re North Dakota” – a state with a sizeable budget surplus, and the only state that is adding jobs when other states are losing them.... So what is so special about North Dakota? The answer seems to be that it is the only state in the union that owns its own bank. It doesn’t have to rely on a recalcitrant Wall Street for credit. It makes its own.

www.webofdebt.com...

the jobs are non-existent.. i am a paralegal for a law firm, our main focus is bankruptcy. since october 2008 we have been breaking records for filing, except for 3 months this year alone. there are no jobs out there, and the unemployment benefits are minimal and create terrible living conditions for a lot of people. the unemployment rate as seen on fox news is around 9.5% for quite some time... the problem with that statistic is it is only showing those people who attempt to gain unemployment benefits or report job loss... it is not showing the people that have long stopped reporting to anyone... our office did our own personal figures and it shows the unemployment rate to be closer to 15-16%... it is not getting any better, tax cuts or not, and it doesn't look to get any better for quite a few more years, since people who file chapter 13 bankruptcy are in a plan for approx 3-5 years... i started with this firm in early 2008 with an estimated 35,000 clients in our active database... that number is now over 65,000 in active bankruptcy... that of course doesn't account for chapter 7 bankruptcy which lasts approximately 4-6 months... the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer... it's the facts!!!

reply to post by schitzoandro

the jobs are non-existent..

I took a look at the jobs.

Who are the biggest employers?
The largest American employer is, by far, the United States federal government (17% of the work force or over four million employees)
#2 is Walmart - 1.8 million employees
#3 is Kelly temp office staffing - 750,000
#4 is McDonald's -465,000
#5 is UPS delivery - 428,000
From: jobs.lovetoknow.com...

This of course does not include the 2.2 million US farms soon to be wiped out due to the just passed Food Safety Law

On the brighter side, over 50% of the work force is employed by small business. Unfortunately the Federal government is busy screwing up that job market too, because small businesses are very vulnerable since they do not have the deep pockets of large corporations. 80% fail within the first three years. Of these failed business, only 10% of them close involuntarily due to bankruptcy and the remaining 90% close because the business was not successful, did not provide the level of income desired or was too much work for their efforts. Therefore too much paperwork can be a big factor in the decision to shut down a business.

Obamacare has the obvious small business cap of 50 employees, where mandatory healthcare kicks in. It also had a really nasty I gotcha that was just found.

Sometimes I feel that this Administration is ACTIVELY trying to bankrupt the USA and force the citizens into rebellion. Either that or they are complete nincompoops!

....Section 9006 of the health care bill -- just a few lines buried in the 2,409-page document -- mandates that beginning in 2012 all companies will have to issue 1099 tax forms not just to contract workers but to any individual or corporation from which they buy more than $600 in goods or services in a tax year...


But under the new rules, if a freelance designer buys a new iMac from the Apple Store, they'll have to send Apple a 1099. A laundromat that buys soap each week from a local distributor will have to send the supplier a 1099 at the end of the year tallying up their purchases.

The bill makes two key changes to how 1099s are used. First, it expands their scope by using them to track payments not only for services but also for tangible goods. Plus, it requires that 1099s be issued not just to individuals, but also to corporations.....
money.cnn.com...

reply to post by crimvelvet


i completely understand what you are saying and to many degrees i agree... with the numbers you have listed here, would this be correct?

The largest American employer is, by far, the United States federal government (17% of the work force or over four million employees) #2 is Walmart - 1.8 million employees #3 is Kelly temp office staffing - 750,000 #4 is McDonald's -465,000 #5 is UPS delivery - 428,000 From: jobs.lovetoknow.com... This of course does not include the 2.2 million US farms soon to be wiped out due to the just passed

this is to say that roughly 10million people are employed through the above stated workforce, so where are the other 298million working? www.usnews.com...

the small business, which is one i work for... well, we have 3 offices and 30+ employees and this firm was established in the early '80s, so from my point of view, it is not a small business, but ran as one... sorry, point being is that we should probably have more like 50+ employees to handle the amount of clients we have, but in the 3 years i have been here, i have only seen the current employees take on many new job titles and labor, this is what i find that most small business employers are doing, so again this is cutting out the opportunities for the unemployed..
also, i have a few friends who have been searching for jobs all this year... one friend had applied to an insurance firm that had and still has a now hiring sign outside their office location here... they called her in for an interview, and said they would get back with her... after about a week, they contacted her to let her know they were not hiring at this time... yet the now hiring sign still stands... that is only an example, i have seen at least 5 now hiring signs locally, that have all been there for more than 6 months...

reply to post by schitzoandro

... this is to say that roughly 10million people are employed through the above stated workforce, so where are the other 298million working?

I just listed the top five employers and the bottom fifty percent. The Small Business Assoc. list a business as small if it has fewer than 500 employees.

If you look the top employers, they are government or menial labor. The rest of that list at the website is printed below and again except for IBM everything is menial labor!

The point I was trying to make is I do not care what type of tax cuts are made. Burdensome red tape will trump a minor tax cut. Look at farmers. Now you could face heavy fines and ten years in jail because someone ACCUSES you of making them ill.

Who the heck is going to go into business with that Sword of Damocles hanging over your head!

Top 10 Public American Employers
Rank...............Company...............Type of Business ...............Employees
1...............Wal-Mart..........................Retail..............................1,800,000
2 ..............Kelly Services.......Staffing/Temporary Help...............750,000
3...............McDonald's..............Fast Food...................................465,000
4 ...............UPS......................Express Delivery............................428,000
5...............IBM.......................Computer Hardware.....................355,766
6...............Home Depot...............Home Retail..............................345,000
7...............Target............................Retail.....................................338,000
8...............Citigroup......................Banking...................................337,000
9...............General Electric...............Leasing & Finance............. 319,000
10...............AT&T..................Staffing/Telephone Service................302,770


Top 10 Private American Employers
Rank...............Company......................Type of Business ...............Employees
1.............Publix Super Markets................Grocery..................................125,000
2 .............PricewaterhouseCoopers..........Business Services...................125,000
3............. Cargill......................................Crops/Grain Traders...............101,000
4 .............Ernst & Young..........................Business Services....................100,600
5............. Meijer.......................................Grocery.......................................70,000
6 .............MDFC Holding.........................Food Processing.........................63,100
7 .............HE Butt Grocery.......................Grocery.......................................60,000
8 .............Enterprise Rent-a-Car..............Business Services........................57,350
9 .............Cox Enterprises........................Broadcast & Cable.....................52,800
10 .............Hy-Vee....................................Grocery........................................46,000
jobs.lovetoknow.com...

reply to post by whatukno


As of August 31, 2010 my job of 16 years was given to someone in Mumbai, India.

Second line.

reply to post by ofhumandescent

As of August 31, 2010 my job of 16 years was given to someone in Mumbai, India.

( places tinfoil hat on head)

You might want to read my thread The Ultimate Conspiracy Theory!

with this added information
Brazil Economy booming
Wint ry weather brings snow to Australia in midsummer

reply to post by crimvelvet

Actually, you're missing a large factor- the unions. The fact is that the auto workers had driven costs of manufacturing a car up drastically, with exorbitant contracts. Other unions also did their fair share of making it easier for manufacturers to move overseas. The truth is that it wasn't only the millionaire executives that were greedy; the unions have to share the blame.

reply to post by ProfEmeritus


they aren't moving their production operations overseas for just the cheap labor...take a look at what these companies are doing to the environment in these countries, I bet that has more to do with it than the labor costs! It's costly to dispose of your toxic waste properly. ya, some of the unions have been greedy, but how many of us are members of unions? their influence has dwindled thru the years.
what these companies want is little or no interference by the gov't, and I am sorry, but I don't think anyone would like our little neck of the woods if we had let the industries continue dumping their waste like they were doing in the 60's and 70's.. I don't think anyone would accept the housing that many of my friends lived in then, it would be an eyesore, dangerous, blah, blah...and oh, this person here is using an outhouse!!!

it's not just the unions....now days, you are expected to have electricity, water, indoor plumbing, a well kept yard, and on and on.... all this costs money!! so, well, we need more money to live than the peasant in china who is allowed to have chickens and cows and live in a shack! it's not just the unions, it's society in general. it expects us to accept peanuts for pay, while paying out the arse for what society has determined to be the necessities of life!
how many employers out there expect you to run to the doctors when you call in sick with the common cold, just to prove to them that you are sick???

ya, we could compete with china and india, but then society would have to lower their expectations a heck of alot!! and I bet about half of society wouldn't even accept a rooster living next door to them crowing every morning!

It is especially special how those who make more money than most would vote against their having to pay their fair share of an already distorted tax burden.

Talk about lack of representation!.

?

reply to post by dawnstar
I live in florida.

The roosters crow all day here.

Maybe I live in the right area,maybe I live in the wrong area......

In My Humble Opinion,This whole country sucks....

...A wee bit more in florida,a wee bit more....

reply to post by chiponbothshoulders


I grew up in NY, in a small city, one of my friends had chickens, and geese, and even a goat... eventually as the small city grew a little bigger, they were made to give up on the chickens and geese and goat. with the new laws that they have been passing of late, I doubt if the eggs that those chickens laid would be considered edible...although, the whole family ate them every day back then, and they all survived.

Originally posted by Oneolddude
There are jobs available,if you want to work.

At the moment unemployed Americans DO NOT want to work.

I have not worked for 2 years.

I have a retirement and just do not need to.

At some point I placed my resume on a online search site.

I receive inquires almost weekly about job offers.

Starting wage is $18 an hour.

This web site is very interesting.

It takes all employment offers from various sites and puts them on one site.

www.indeed.com...

There are jobs out there if anyone wants one.

I live in Pennsylvania, north of Philadelphia - and I've been looking for a STEADY FULL-TIME job for so damn long I'm sick of looking anymore. Yea, there ARE jobs - I'd say 95% of them are TEMP jobs, meaning after you get hired and work there for a few months - usually around 3 from my experience at the last couple places I worked at, they get whatever job they were assigned completed and don't need you anymore - then you're back to filling out pages and pages of applications in hopes that you can find yet another TEMP job somewhere within 50 miles of where you live for the next 3 months.

Oh, and keep in mind that 9% of the people that live in the country are unemployed. As of TODAY, December 23rd, 2010, there are approximately 310,500,000 people living in the United States. www.census.gov...

So, in other words, there are around 27,945,000 people currently looking for work - which in reality isn't that far off from the ENTIRE population of the state of California... so, in other words, if you're lucky enough to FIND a job listing somewhere within a 50 mile radius of where you live, and are lucky enough to make your way thru the pack of THOUSANDS of other applications (Hope ya went to college for at least 4 years... I managed to go for 3 myself :T) then you might be able to manage to SURVIVE for the next 3 MONTHS.

How am I surviving? I'm "lucky" enough to be a troll living in my parents basement - yay. Maybe when I turn 30 years old in 3 months, I'll finally find a steady full time job somewhere around here....

Would you like a small list of places I've applied to work at in a radius of 50 miles of where I live? Here's a few of the larger, well-known companies:

McDonald's
K-mart
Little Cesar's
Staples
Arby's
Wal-Mart
Pizza Hut
Burger King

Pretty much around the time I finally got an e-mail response back from McDonald's telling me how they "Regret to inform me there are no longer any available positions" sometime within 6 months of filling out an application, I sort of lost the drive to keep looking. On the other hand, I AM doing odd jobs for friends whenever I can so I have enough money for myself to eat at least once a day, put gas in my car, and give my parents a few hundred dollars towards bills; Washing cars, walking dogs, house sitting when they're away on vacation / business (I get to do that again this Sunday, right after Christmas.. bleh) Yea, it's not degrading at all.

Welcome to the real world.

Oh, and if you're gonna say something to me like "why not enroll yourself in the Army"... I can't. They won't take me because of my medical history - eye surgery, brain surgery, broken femur as a child, etc.

reply to post by Time2Think


you might want to reconsider your position about temp jobs...
I don't like them either really, but one of my sons have landed a few really good jobs through the temp services. it seems like that's where all the decent jobs, at least in my area are at, the temp services. there are so many people out of work, the companies can be picky about who they hire, and well, they are being picky! they want to give you a test run before they add you to their payrolls.

reply to post by ProfEmeritus

....The truth is that it wasn't only the millionaire executives that were greedy; the unions have to share the blame....

Oh I am with you there all the way Prof E.

My Father organized a union at Pocketbook Inc in New York City many many years ago. He was promptly beat -up and run out of the city by the Mob who took over the Union he organized.

I have been trying to stay "neutral" and not push any hot buttons, because we need to unite the American people and not encourage them to bicker amongst themselves.

You might like to read my Tin Hat conspiracy theory and see if you can find any errors. The Ultimate Conspiracy Theory

I think it explains why the elite decided to kill the golden goose (The USA and Europe)

Originally posted by whatukno
Tax cuts pass for all

Obviously the entire Republican agenda is a failure as well.

Seeing as the republicians aren't in power for another month...how is this so? There is a democratically controlled senate, congress, AND presidency. Has been for 2 years now. Where is all of the "change" Obama promised? What DIRECTLY has the democratic agenda improved or changed? I am not looking for a fight, just to elaborate on the republicians agenda failing, though they have been the minority party for 2 years.

edit on 23-12-2010 by dialecticchaos77 because: Screwed that up. Everytrhing from the word "seeing" wasn't supposed to be part of the quote...noob error

reply to post by dawnstar

...it seems like that's where all the decent jobs, at least in my area are at, the temp services....

Full time position became a thing of the pass a decade or more ago. The likelihood of working for a company long enough to actually get a pension is vanishingly small. Heck half the companies I worked for do not exist anymore!

There is a very good reason why Kelly temp is the number 2 Publicly held employer in the USA. Companies are not interested in "investing" time and training in a person. All they want to do is steal the exact fit from someone else and toss them out a few months later after the job is done.

Your best bet maybe the small businesses. My Hubby freelances for a couple. They bring him in on an as need basis. Given the new 1099 TAX rule

I would take a course in Bookkeeping/ Accounting and tax prep and prepare myself to help a lot of small businesses to cope with the new ruling. If you can not afford to take a course pick-up used accounting books, bookkeeping books and tax prep books at your Community College book store. See if you can get the ones that are "obsolete" if you can not afford the ones used in current courses.

Once you have trained your self you can either go to work for a small accounting firm or freelance for tiny companies by putting their records into good order for their Accountants. Accountants charge a small company an arm and a leg if they show up with a box full of receipts but many small business owners do not have the time or expertise to do the work themselves. Best check and see if you need to be licensed first though.

Good luck on the job hunting. Unfortunately once you have been out of work for six months you are considered "unemployable" by HR departments. Another good reason to check out the small businesses.