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Why do Europeans, Australians, and Canadians Need Freedom of Speech?

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posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 08:09 PM
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There is at least one thread where some Europeans ask why do Americans need our Second Amendment, defending our right to own, and bear arms.

These people claim that guns' main purpose is to kill, and part of their whole argument revolves around that claim, but in reality what is it that really causes most problems around the world, including violent crimes?... It is freedom of speech, the difference in opinion we all have.

Freedom of speech can and does start disputes which very frequently turns into violence.

In European soccer fight fests, most of those fights start because people from different teams yell out their dislike for the other team, and throw insults at one at another, which in turn causes violence.

Even if there were no guns all over the world freedom of speech would still cause disputes/arguments, and violence. People will also find other means to injure and even kill others, so banning guns/firearms around the world will not stop violence.

You think guns can kill a lot of people? A criminal locking a theater, a club, or some other place where lots of people frequent can kill a lot more people by using regular first aid kit alcohol bottles and setting them on fire on that place.

Likewise, there are many other ways that criminals can use regular tools, and chemicals anyone can buy to murder others, so banning weapons will not solve any problems.

Most of the time, before any violent dispute starts, it is freedom of speech that causes violence, and even death.

So, according to the ideology of Europeans, Canadians, Australians, and other people who think "weapons are the problem", those people and those nations should instead ban "their freedom of speech"... Only then would these people find the peace they are all seeking.

BTW, in case you Europeans, Canadians, Australians, and anyone elso who wants to ban weapons haven't realized it yet I am being sarcastic, but at the same time I am using your own arguments agaisnt you.

If you don't think that the rich elites' next move after banning firearms is not going to be to ban your freedom of speech, just wait and you will see...

A politician, and probably more, of renown to the left will use this argument I just used soon enough.

We already have the London chief of police stating that he wants to ban your right to peafully protest...
______beforeitsnews/story/312/310/Martial_Law:_UK_Police_Chief_Mulls_Banning_Protests.html
edit on 18-12-2010 by ElectricUniverse because: errors.




posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 08:11 PM
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This is crazy! It's lack of these things that cause violence, because the people will revolt.



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 08:17 PM
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This country was founded on freedom!
That's why!
We all need to keep that in mind..
Honestly, every time I read something new about this place becoming less about freedom and more about "security" I get a little more heartbroken.



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 08:19 PM
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reply to post by ElectricUniverse
 


i'm pretty sure that many europeans don't have free speech. see: hate speech laws.



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 08:27 PM
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IMHO all three of you are right, but I am trying to force those Europeans, Canadians, Australians, and others who beleive that guns must be banned to use the brain they were born with because imo they haven't used it for a while now since they have allowed themselves to become brainwashed by the rich elites so many of them claim they want to fight against.



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 08:43 PM
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reply to post by ElectricUniverse
 


i am english, i believe it is up to americans to decide if they want to bear arms. seems to me your a little upset somebody could suggest you should no be able to, so you decided to do the same. do you really think a few 'europeans' if thats how i am labeled to americans are really going to effect U.S. law?

answer: NO

so why be bothered about peoples opinions?, thats all they are, and they are entitled to them, your entilted to think people should not have freedom of speech, but YOUR opinion does not matter.

i can let you in on a little secret(well not secret), nobodies opinions will effect your countrys laws unless you are high enough up the pecking order, so not even americans opinions are listened to when it comes to passing laws, its the same here in the u.k.

so i would not worry. what you should worry about is the opinion of your elected officals in your own country.



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 08:58 PM
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Australia's citizens being able to bear arms in case of an oppressive government is a good thing. BUT, I do have my doubts. These are mainly founded on the violence point you made.

When a person holds a weapon(gun), they feel like they have a bigger d*ck. Yep. Overtime they may get used to the concept of owning/holding a gun, but having so much power in your hands initially can make you feel like your d*ck is gargantuan. This can cause problems as we have a lot of morons here that go out at night and stab people for fun, or beat people up in groups for fun. They instigate the fights so they can get what they want.

They love it. What's funny is it's usually the ones of arabic decent. I'm pointing at lebanese. Although one of my only friends was lebanese, I met a whole lot of the other people he met and this is what I found. They just love it, they love hurting other people, makes them feel like they are in a movie or something. Just google "lebanese gangs - sydney" or on youtube.

My point is, I believe if weapons(guns) are legalised here, death-rates due to these toxic wastes of life that were perhaps mutated sperm in their initial stages, will increase. I am all for legalisation of guns, but i'm pointing out an inevitable disadvantage. It is so much more easy to point a block of metal at someone, pull on a trigger, and wish the person dead, than it is to go up to someone and stab them.

I will also add that there IS gun violence occuring here already. But it will increase IMO if legalised.
edit on 18-12-2010 by Somehumanbeing because: (no reason given)

edit on 18-12-2010 by Somehumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 08:58 PM
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reply to post by lifeform11
 


Upset? naa, I am forming my opinion and trying to make those who haven't though very much about their opinions on firearms think twice about it.

I am stating that in the same way politicians and the left have been making claims for decades that "banning firearms will stop violence", that the same argument can be made about freedom of speech, and the elites will use this argument soon enough.

I am giving my opinion now that we still can, and trying to change the opinions of those who are falling for the rich elites' tactics who only want to strip away every right we have.

Why are you, another European so against an American giving out my opinion?


edit on 18-12-2010 by ElectricUniverse because: errors.



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 08:59 PM
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reply to post by lifeform11
 


You could say the same thing for most countries around the world. We in Aus lost our semi automatics because of one incident down in Tasmania. It has not stopped people from being violent or killing one another. There is always a way to harm someone without guns. Even if they did ban them they would still be on the black market so it is a complete waste of time. As for freedom of speech, thats where it just about stops when you bring the government into it because it does not matter what you say, they still will not listen and they wonder why people cannot and will not protest in peace.



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 09:08 PM
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Originally posted by Bones_
This country was founded on freedom!


Is that how the native Americans feel about the good old us of a, dont misunderstand me I have no quarrel with you, only the notion of a country built on freedom, when even after America defeated Britain in 1776 slavery wasn't made illegal Until 1860 that's a full on 84 years of a great nation being built on freedom?



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 09:08 PM
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Originally posted by Somehumanbeing
Australia's citizens being able to bear arms in case of an oppressive government is a good thing. BUT, I do have my doubts. These are mainly founded on the violence point you made.

When a person holds a weapon(gun), they feel like they have a bigger d*ck. Yep, they do. They really do.
...


You are very wrong... The mayority of people do not have guns to feel they have bigger sexual parts... This is only one of the many idiotic excuses from people who just faint at the mention of guns, and think the world will end because of them...

The people who keep making these claims about firearms and people's peckers really need to visit a psychologist, and one that does not faint at the mention of firearms or makes any of the leftists excuses to try to ban firearms...

If guns are legalized in Australia, and your people have background checks done before people buy guns, as it happens in the U.S. when you buy legal firearms, most people that will buy weapons would be law abiding citizens which in turn will DECREASE crime in your country...

Haven't people like you learned by now that banning firearms increase crimes, and even crimes with firearms increase because only criminals have guns when they are banned?...
edit on 18-12-2010 by ElectricUniverse because: errors.



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 09:10 PM
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Originally posted by Somehumanbeing
Australia's citizens being able to bear arms in case of an oppressive government is a good thing. BUT, I do have my doubts. These are mainly founded on the violence point you made.

When a person holds a weapon(gun), they feel like they have a bigger d*ck. Yep. Overtime they may get used to the concept of owning/holding a gun, but having so much power in your hands initially can make you feel like your d*ck is gargantuan. This can cause problems as we have a lot of morons here that go out at night and stab people for fun, or beat people up in groups for fun. They instigate the fights so they can get what they want.

They love it. What's funny is it's usually the ones of arabic decent. I'm pointing at lebanese. Although one of my only friends was lebanese, I met a whole lot of the other people he met and this is what I found. They just love it, they love hurting other people, makes them feel like they are in a movie or something. Just google "lebanese gangs - sydney" or on youtube.

My point is, I believe if weapons(guns) are legalised here, death-rates due to these toxic wastes of life that were perhaps mutated sperm in their initial stages, will increase. I am all for legalisation of guns, but i'm pointing out an inevitable disadvantage.
edit on 18-12-2010 by Somehumanbeing because: (no reason given)

edit on 18-12-2010 by Somehumanbeing because: (no reason given)


I will also add that there IS gun violence occuring here already. But it will increase IMO if legalised.
edit on 18-12-2010 by Somehumanbeing because: (no reason given)


Murder rates and even armed robbery rates in Australia did NOT decrease when they took our guns...

You fail to point out the fact that we ALWAYS had different rules than the US..
Basically we were allowed guns for sport only..
We could NOT carry a gun for protection..
Therefore it was and still is, only the criminals that carry guns....
And they are not hard to get..Recently a reporter tried and it took him 4 hours..



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 09:14 PM
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reply to post by sittingonthefence
 


Oh boy, should we take a look at your country's past?... Where are you from? The UK, or some other European country?... Australia?... Africa?...China?... some other Asian country?...

EVERY country in the world had, and in many cases still have the blood of people, and even innocent people in their hands... EVERY COUNTRY...



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 09:26 PM
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reply to post by ElectricUniverse
 


I meant the big d*ck remark as in, they feel more confident. Here they only attack you in groups. With a gun, they will feel like they can do whatever they want. These people are stupid, impulsive and violent. I do not faint at the mention of a gun by the way, i've used an Automatic Rifle, LMG, 66mm AT, and other crap quite frequently, so don't give me the whole "you're a pussy" remark.

I agree with your background checks point, but have you thought that maybe if more citizens buy weapons to protect themselves, more criminals will turn to more violent solution by they themselves stocking up more on this kind of weaponry?

Like I said before, I am for "guns" being legalised for self-protection like the US and for the purposes the US proposed in their constitution, but don't think that this will diminish crime at all. It will either stay the same, or violent deaths due to crime may increase.

reply to post by backinblack
 


We are still allowed weapons for sport only. I can go buy a mosin nagant right now, pretty cheap. You just need to have a good safe for it, and for the ammunition, so initially it will cost you a bit, plus you get checked randomly throughout the year. The OP is talking about wide-spread weapons for self-protection, which in that case, I believe will increase gun-violence as you can hide a .22 more easily than a mosin nagant. Couple that with the hot-headed teenagers here that are impulsive, and bam, you got yourself some gun violence. These kids don't care, trust me. They think they're the # if they can go stab some guys.
edit on 18-12-2010 by Somehumanbeing because: (no reason given)

edit on 18-12-2010 by Somehumanbeing because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 09:31 PM
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reply to post by ElectricUniverse
 


I'm sorry I misunderstand where your comments are aimed, I am from England and if we were to delve into my countries past we would be here All night discussing the atrocities that my country has bought upon the world, BUT since I already stated my issue was the comment you made about your country being built on freedom, when it quite clearly wasn't, I see you obviously saw red at my last comment and fired one straight off without thinking, I apologise if I offended you on a personal level as this was not my intention, I thought a debate was to be had, obviously I was mistaken.



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 09:37 PM
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reply to post by ElectricUniverse
 


lol against americans? for what? pointing out that it is elected officals opinions that matter and stating it is the same in my country?

by pointing out europeans opinions do not matter when it comes to matters to do with the U.S.?

for pointing out that even most americans opinions are not heard in their own country, let alone people living outside of it.

please explain where i hate americans for having an opinion? your the one who created a thread complaining about a europeans opinion, then accuse another european of hating americans opinions. somebody seems to hate europeans.

see how easy it is to assume things.
edit on 18-12-2010 by lifeform11 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 09:39 PM
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reply to post by ElectricUniverse
 


I found myself starting to get upset a little bit over the past weeks about all of the negativity towards the U.S. BUT, instead of complaining about it i sucked it up and read a lot of the back and forth arguments that have been going on. I come to realize that it is posts like this that makes me understand why a lot of other Countries cannot tolerate some Americans attitudes. Its posts like this that make me ashamed that someone like you spews stuff out like this that represent this Country. I do not see the necessity for this. You are not helping our case bro. You are basically confirming why they look at us like ignorant arrogant pricks. Thanks man....

You are on your own....



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 09:42 PM
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reply to post by Redevilfan09
 


i do not understand your point, i said i believe american should choose for themselves in matters of bearing arms, IE: it has nothing to do with anybody else.

also i said that people opinions are not listened to by politicians, not from people abroad and not even by the majority in their own countries, so my point is if your really worried about your gun laws being taken away, it is those that can actually effect it you should be calling/complaining to, if they are in favour of getting rid of guns, not a european on the otherside of the continet who has no effect on U.S. policy.



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 09:49 PM
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Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
Haven't people like you learned by now that banning firearms increase crimes, and even crimes with firearms increase because only criminals have guns when they are banned?...


Could you please show me where you get this information from? I do believe that you are quite mistaken in this.

thanks...



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 09:53 PM
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There is a point to the OP the word will always be a main factor to violence.

There is a pretty big difference though. Out here when you get in a fight you get punched in the face maybe if it isn't your day you get stabbed.
The gun however would be used more often if available. It is a tool that is used in the isue of the word causing violence. Making it nothing more then an easier way for people to get killed because of the same violence of the word you talk about.

By the way , there are European nations that do have the right to be armed with guns e.g. Switzerland, Norway.
Yet they don't tend to kill people with them like it happens in the states.

I also agree with Snusfantastic.



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