Evidence no plane crashed & buried in Shanksville; piles of dirt, but no piles of plane debris

In this country, the USA we don't just scoop up and dump Aircraft wreckage in a dumpster - especially if it is part of the biggest crime committed against this country since Pearl Harbor - an act of WAR. No - that's not how it works. They identify a hanger somewhere, in the case of 9/11 you would think on a military base or other secure location so federal crime and aviation officials would have control over the crime scene. Then each piece of recovered debris down to the tiniest rivet or scrap is carefully collected, bagged and tagged if you will - and moved to the reconstruction location. Once this evidence is taken to the designated hanger it is laid out piece by exacting piece on a huge stencil imprinted on the hanger floor in the shape of the lost craft.
This reconstruction is documented.

I spent many years working in Aviation Maintenance - you read about mishaps in trade publications so that you can prevent them. You see pictures of reconstructions - if you spend time in the field - you meet people - some of them work for the FAA, and maybe even some of them carry around "trophy shots" of accident scenes to share for the shock value during coffee hour at Aviation conferences. I've seen a lot of charred engine remains, my personal field of interest. We talk about it. We talk about who has lost birds and why. Human factors, maintenance factors. Somebody always knows somebody that knows somebody that knows. You hear about lost hanger space due to reconstruction investigations. People talk - the field is not THAT big and word gets around. In my humble, very humble opionion you just don't hear or see what you would expect concerning these crime scenes. I am especially alarmed that intact engines or sections of engines and large portions of wing did not survive at the Pentagon location. That is my personal "stuck point" on the mainstream position.

So a plane to this scale crashed into the ground, carrying thousands of gallons of jet fuel....[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/894fa745cd6c.jpg[/atsimg]

....and this is the resultant damage???
Note the beautiful grass, unscorched (which is impossible..physically impossible) by all that fuel which is supposed to have exploded.....
Note the size of the hole relative to the size of the plane..
[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/8caeb39775c0.jpg[/atsimg]


Wasnt hooper lecturing you ath11 on "the real world" earlier in your thread....??

How ironic...wonder which world he's talking about??
Lego World maybe???

Nice thread.....and hitting a nerve judging by the rubbish spewed by some posters who, like moths to a light, fly in as soon as the words Pentacon or Shanksville are mentioned.....hmmm, wonder why???

reply to post by ATH911


Collection bin for aircraft debris



Here is larger pieces of debris

"We went through here on our hands and knees hundreds of times

[img]http://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/Flight93handsandknees.jpg[/img

Tents for remains recovery

[img]http://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/Shanksvilleflight93PDFTents.jpg[/img

Sorting tables



Remains

[img][/img]

reply to post by TheBirdisDone

I am especially alarmed that intact engines or sections of engines and large portions of wing did not survive at the Pentagon location. That is my personal "stuck point" on the mainstream position. [/ex

AA77 struck a heavy masonry building at almost 500 mph - would not expect to see much larger debris, but
som,e pieces did survive

Part of landing gear





Parts of jet engine did survive and were recovered from inside building

As someone who supposedly knows about aircraft crashes should be aware that speed, angle of impact and
where it lands determines how much and what survives the impact along with post crash fire

I have seen a crash scene as a FF - Lear 35A smashed into small pieces, largest piece was 2 X 3 ft section of tail fin - rest reduced to meallic confetti

reply to post by thedman


Care to link where the pictures are located on the web?
Especially interested in the side of the plane in Shanksville. And where it was found.

Thanks.

Fully agree with what most of you are saying about Shanksville, I've found a lot of evidence at the worldtradeconspiracy.com... website that I had no idea about. You guys would probably find the same!

Originally posted by benoni

Wasnt hooper lecturing you ath11 on "the real world" earlier in your thread....??

Yes, because hooper lives in denial. But to be fair to hooper, he is correct about the "real world" because most of society lives in denial, so the "real world" is a world of denial, which hooper lives in.

Originally posted by thedman
Sorting tables

Since this is the only photo that's relevant to the thread, please show many any plane debris in this photo.

Remains

Animal remains don't count.

reply to post by thedman


Oh I did work in the field - but crashes were not my interest - keeping them in the air was.
I tried to stay away from those FAA guys - because honestly when you know everything that goes wrong with Airplanes you never want to fly in them - and those crash photo guys with charred body pictures seriously put me off. As a FF you probably know a guy or two like that, the guy that talks about the worst call with a little too much relish over the gore. I had to fly home from those conferences so talking about crashes was not my primary goal. I was there to budget, long term forcast, learn about proposed technical changes and talk about utilization rates. I am not an engineer or a specialist in the theory of flight or an investigator in the field of mishaps. I am a production controller of Air Craft Maintenance. The person you hope is paying attention to ensure maintanance and time changes are getting accomplished on your Aircraft. I am first in line for investigation if a mishap happens - something that Thank God never happened on my watch. I was never "locked out of my office" - and ordered to go pee in a cup.

What I wrote was - I have seen a lot of mishap photos and documentation and what I have seen concerning two of those crash sites leaves me with questions - that might be easily answered if more evidence was available.
I also find it odd how little talk about this permeated the field afterwards. Of course I did not stick around long either - I got kind of busy going to War and all as a result of what happened that day.

Hey Thedman...

Are those pathetic looking flimsy wooden tables you referenced in your photo the ones they used to "find" their lost quarter of a million Kilograms worth of 757??????

You need to keep away from those Truster sites man.....they messin' wid yo brain brother!!

I have always thought that if anyone wants to prove the 9/11 conspiracy they should be looking for 4 planes. 4 passenger planes are pretty large to hide so someone must have seen them. They would also need their identities stripped or possibly be totally destroyed somewhere. I am sure if American Airlines are in on this they would expect compensation from the Government for the loss of 4 aircraft.

Maybe some unusual sales of aircraft that have gone abroad.

That debris field in DidTM's youtube embed looks a lot like what we saw with the Lockerbie plane bombing in Scotland.

I'm keeping an open mind on this one, but it looks more like a mid air explosion to me.

However, in WW2 during the Battle of Britain, there were small planes like Spitfires that crashed and completely buried themselves in the ground and the ground disturbance was so slight that farmers forgot the exact location and some are still being dug up today, but finding them requires geophysics. There was one which was buried in a London Street and only found when they were extending the Tube (subway). Usually in these cases the fuselage is in bits and the engine block the only thing intact, But the old prop engines were big blocks of cast metal, does a jet engine stay intact under impact? I think they would crumple.

I do a bit of excavation as a builder and the amount of earth that comes out of the ground loose is greatly more in volume than the hole it leaves, because the ground is compacted and the loose earth is not. So I wouldn't read much into the size of the piles of the earth in the OP's pictures.

Those pictures look to me as if they were taken after the wreckage was removed.

I'm on the fence.

reply to post by DIDtm


Pictures are here

sites.google.com...

Were tagged as part of trial of Moussaoi

Forward 1/3 of Flight 93 separated on impact and flew into tree line just beyond cleared part of old mine

This is where largest pieces of debris were recovered

Section of fuselage with windows measured about 6 x 7 ft. Also aircraft tire was found here

reply to post by benoni


No numb nuts - tables were used to classify small parts of debris, along with any personal effects or body parts
that were recovered by searchers

reply to post by tilpah

That debris field in DidTM's youtube embed looks a lot like what we saw with the Lockerbie plane bombing in Scotland.

This what a high speed, high angle crash looks like - not like Wiley E Coyote on cartoons

Most of plane (and occupants) are reduced to small fragments with some larger pieces that survive the impact

Seen this up close and personal at crash of Lear 35A

This is from NY TIMES article on crash - Note description of plane as being reduced to small pieces and victims
as little more than body parts

''We're dealing with body parts, not bodies,'' Chief Joseph Ranney said. ''Identification will be very difficult.'' Airplane parts were scattered in small pieces throughout the site on Garrett Mountain.

At the site, at Rifle Camp Road and Washington Drive near the Great Notch Reservoir, Federal, police and fire investigators sifted through the remains. The parts of the plane were scattered beneath trees, shrubs and rocks, and the smell of jet fuel permeated the air.

Just finished reading this thread..Jeez, so someone post a thread, people reply who dont agree with Ops claim of proof when his said proof is just speculation and opinion on his part, and the people who dont agree are attacked. Way to get people on your side...

As for the topic at hand, I do not believe that anyone other than Alqueda was responsible for the attacks, I also do believe that flight 93 crashed where they said it did. However, I think we shot her down and that is where the real cover up is. It came down to a hard choice. The lives of the people on the plane verses the lives of possibly thousands of others.

reply to post by ATH911


Let's look at something:

Evidence no plane crashed & buried in Shanksville; piles of dirt, but no piles of plane debris

Govt reported both UA93 black boxes found on the same day AND a day early!!!

Wally Miller on UA93: wingtip hit, 757 cartwheeled, cockpit broke off, rest buried

How'd all that debris land on top of Shanks crater?

If UA93 crashed at 40 deg and dug down 45 ft...

IMPOSSIBLE: Only ONE debris shows UA livery and it's the largest photo'd

Claim of only 8% of UA93 passenger remains found supports conspiracy

Why Shanksville forest more fire damaged than crater & grass?

Skeptics, what are the official crash details of UA93?

Skeptic's dilemma regarding alleged UA93 wreckage

Shanksville forest damage conflicts with official story?

Archive of reports inferring most of UA93 was buried

Was this Shanks aerial photo taken before, or after cleanup?

Where were those 'puddles of jet fuel' at Shanksville?

Where was all that 95% of UA93 wreckage?

For those who think Flight 93 was shot down...

Was a UA 757 even witnessed flying around Shanks?

Further proof UA93 didn't bury, media skipped it

Why didn't UA93 callers say plane was rolling?

How did officials know most of Flight 93 was buried?

Claim this UA logo debris taken at Shanksville

Claim that UA93 engine piece recovered from pond

Skeptics seem to rely on FAITH for Flight 93 buried claim

Prove that bulk of UA93 buried itself into the ground

Perplexed about the plane's tail sections crashing

Show me un-plantable Shanksville debris

How would skeptics fake a plane crash scene?

LOOK: There is no United color debris in the dumpster!

www.abovetopsecret.com...

28 Threads..... YES 28 threads regarding flight 93 started by you ATH911. Not one of them have you proven anything that is sinister. You were given; on several occasions, contact information of the PROFESSIONALS that were there the day of and the weeks and months after the crash.

Why haven't you contacted them?

Why hasn't ONE professional that was there come forward and agree that the crash site was planted...that a plane NEVER crashed there?

Why have you posted pictures that are many days AFTER the crash?

Why do you ignore the countless witness statements from those that were at the site?

Why do you ignore the MANY phone calls that were made from flight 93?

28 THREADS later... where's the beef?

A relative of mine was actually there after the crash due to his job.
There WAS a crash, and the plane was not intact. It had disintegrated into a ton of pieces.

reply to post by ATH911

Yes, because hooper lives in denial. But to be fair to hooper, he is correct about the "real world" because most of society lives in denial, so the "real world" is a world of denial, which hooper lives in.

Does it ever give you even a moments pause when you think that everyone else in society is in denial and you are the sole bearer of the "truth"?