Evidence no plane crashed & buried in Shanksville; piles of dirt, but no piles of plane debris

reply to post by hooper


Duplicate flight - changed numbers in flight. Most likely empty and the passenger boarding list was manufactured.

It would be really easy for them to do since everything was compartmentalized. There has never been one large passenger plane crash in where a large debris field didn't exist. So many firsts that day - how can debunkers be that stupid?

reply to post by ATH911


Sounds like your in denial like all the other Truthers.
It also sounds like you are expecting to see Wings and Seats scattered every where. Simple Fact is, the Plane was smashed into peices no bigger than a few Inches. If you put a Plane into a Crusher it would not take 24 Cars, more like the size of a Mini Van, Most of the Plane is space. I don't know how many G's it would have hit with but it would have been enormous. If it was only 10G's, take your average American of 250lbs place a 2500lb weight on his head and let go, your not going to find any solid pieces he's going to be as thick as piece of paper.

reply to post by empireoflizards


Well...it seems there may be some "pro-911 conspiracy" people spreading that about PSA 1771. The NTSB report search turns up a notice that it's on microfiche (1987 a long time ago). The cover page online introduction says:

WITNESSES ON THE GND SAID THE AIRPLANE WAS INTACT AND THERE WAS NO EVIDENCE OF FIRE BEFORE THE AIRPLANE STRUCK THE GND IN A STEEP NOSE-DOWN ATTITUDE. THE CVR TAPE REVEALED THE SOUNDS OF A SCUFFLE AND SEVERAL SHOTS WHICH WERE APPARENTLY FIRED IN OR NEAR THE COCKPIT.

www.ntsb.gov...

It has been a long time for me, too....I was already flying for major airline then....effect it had? Made it new rule to have to go through "security" (used to by-pass, in uniform with ID). Just the beginning of the end of the "good era" in the industry....

Also.....

Two men in a pickup driving east on Highway 46 saw the plane against a clear blue sky. The third witness, an illegal immigrant who was very near the impact site but never publicly came forward, was said to have feared for his life. The plane was completely intact until it crashed, and was traveling at an approximately 70-degree angle toward the south. The plane impacted a rocky hillside, leaving a crater less than 2 feet deep and 4 feet across, presumably where the landing gear struck the ground. Unburnt paper flew everywhere as small aircraft fuel fires burned on the ground.

en.wikipedia.org...


Like I think....the "9/11 conspiracy" types do NOT want any valid comparisons to UAL 93, since it blows away their "theories"..... >shrug<

reply to post by skeptic_al


Yup...mostly "empty space", inside the structure itself.

I used these in another thread, seems they will work here to illustrate. The "skeleton" of the Boeing 757...all that is missing are some of the skin panels, you can imagine them if you wish....:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/aeccec34606c.jpg[/atsimg]

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/8d335183e8d7.jpg[/atsimg]

Originally posted by Judge_Holden
No debris?

Hmmm... Care to explain these?

(I do not know how to embed, so sorry if this is inconvenient)
















Yeah, no debris.

thats a nice scattered debris field all over the forest! do you think it got that way from the plane plowing into the ground> or the plane being blown to piece in the air

reply to post by weedwhacker


AirDisaster.com quotes: "Several seconds later, the CVR picks up increasing windscreen noise as the airplane pitches down and begins to accelerate. A final gunshot is heard as Burke fatally shoots himself. Airspeed continues to build until 13,000 feet, when traveling at a velocity of 1.2x Mach, the aircraft breaks apart and the Flight Recorders cease functioning".

Now, it seems there is a discrepancy between the ground eyewitnesses and the above quote from AirDisaster.com. I'm not aware of said site endorsing conspiracy theories. Perhaps you have some info on them?


www.airdisaster.com...

reply to post by ATH911

At the same time, the high winds that buffeted the area over the last few days have dislodged additional airplane parts – seat cushions, wiring, carpet fragments and pieces of metal – from trees near the crash site. "It's all aircraft parts, no human remains," Miller said. "We've collected them in 10 recycling bin-sized containers and eventually we'll turn them all over to United." –Wallace Miller

[img]http://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/Shanksvillefinalsweep2.jpg[/img

Said debris was all small pieces....

[img]http://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lies/P200061-1.jpg[/img



Dont look so small

Aircraft tire



Personal effects

Someone Bible



Papers





Flight attendent Drivers license



GTE AirFone

Originally posted by andrewh7

Originally posted by DIDtm
No.No.No.
You see..when the plane crashed, it disintegrated on impact. There was no fire because the plane came in at such a high velocity, the plane must have dumped all of its fuel first. And they did find all kinds of debris. Its just not evidenced in the photos you supplied because you 'picked and chose' what pics to use.
How dare you? They found a drivers license of a FL woman there to Petes Sake. She was on the plane.
How dare you try to pass this off as fact. You should be ashamed of yourself.

(SARCASM) - But thats what your going to hear from others.

Then why was there debris miles away? The plane was shot down by a jet in the air. It broke up in the air. That's how you get multiple debris sites miles away. The OS is public relations fairy tale. In addition, why is it that the plane turned to dust but terrorist passports and an expired driver's license survives undamaged? BS

edit on 19-12-2010 by andrewh7 because: (no reason given)

Andrewh7.
Please re-read my comment again, and notice at the end (SARCASM).
Thank you.

This aircraft had a bomb explode, at cruise altitude and plummeted, free-fall from about 35,000 feet. Anybody notice anything? Like the size of the pieces? Explain to my why THIS aircraft didn't burrow itself 15' into the ground. Explain why this aircraft wasn't reduced to confetti, even though a bomb exploded on-board! The OS of the Shanksville crash is a sham, period. There were too many witnesses who saw aircraft that they described as "small", "business jet", "small, white jet", "lear jet". The witnesses saw these aircraft at such a low altitude that they disappeared behind the tree line which was only a few hundred yards away. And how is debris found 3 miles away from the crash? If this IS flight 93, then it was obliterated in flight before it hit the ground. Period.

reply to post by Whyhi


It may be that there was a rogue element operating that day within the conspiracy.

Anomalies:

Building 7 going down hours later

Flight 93 going down in Pennsylvania by, most likely, being shot down by the Conspirators.

This along with building 7 may have been a surprise to the original conspirators.
That would explain the odd activity of Bush and Cheney that day as well as the fall of building 7.

"A riddle in an enigma"

Remember to understand these people we must think like the CIA thinks

Black is white and white is black.


Likely this rogue element surprised the original conspirators first with flight 93 therefore the original conspirators shot it down . . . since where it was going was not a part of the original operation.

Then hours later this rouge element brought building 7 down in order to bring suspicion on the operation.

We all know that building 7 going down is the starkest anomaly of the op and has made millions of people spepticle of the OS.

In addition, flight 93 is also a very strange occurrence in light of the fact that they let the other two Plaines reach their destination... as well the pentagon [plane or missile striking it] unless one concludes that the taking down of flight 93, in light of their story that the occupants fought the terrorist, was a part of the psychological aspect of the op.

I doubt this. I believe the activity of flight 93 as well as the take down of building 7 was not a part of the original operation of the spy-op of 911

Originally posted by Six Sigma

Originally posted by DIDtm


Yes I have.
Debris from the plane. No bigger than a briefcase...as was reported.
Also reported was human remains.

I still am asking the 3 questions.

What were the debris that were found 8 miles away, DIDtm? Again, if you know the answer you would not STILL be asking the questions.

Whether it be papers, books, pens, baseball caps, seats, luggage, an umbrella, glasses, clothes, envelopes, make-up, an engine, glass, human bones, a laptop, wheels, or shoes isnt the question here.
IT IS HOW DID IT GET THERE?
Wind?
You're going to tell me WIND blew something (anything) 8 miles from the crash site.
Please also, back that up explaining to me that it was a steep decline in a hill that continued for 8 miles that the wind used to get said debris from the plane that far.

reply to post by General.Lee


If that first link is indeed a pic of 93 reconstructed, the window frames are awfully nice and square for a direct impact. This whole thing just feels like something isn't being told.

Edit to add...that first link is a PanAm airplane. Isn't 93 UA?


Ok nevermind....I misunderstood the point you made. Sorry.

Originally posted by General.Lee
This aircraft had a bomb explode, at cruise altitude and plummeted, free-fall from about 35,000 feet. Anybody notice anything? Like the size of the pieces? Explain to my why THIS aircraft didn't burrow itself 15' into the ground. Explain why this aircraft wasn't reduced to confetti, even though a bomb exploded on-board! The OS of the Shanksville crash is a sham, period. There were too many witnesses who saw aircraft that they described as "small", "business jet", "small, white jet", "lear jet". The witnesses saw these aircraft at such a low altitude that they disappeared behind the tree line which was only a few hundred yards away. And how is debris found 3 miles away from the crash? If this IS flight 93, then it was obliterated in flight before it hit the ground. Period.

EDIT: Misread the post.

Airplane exploded at altitude, wasn't flown into the ground like flight 93. That's why the debris pattern was much more widespread than flight 93.

A lot less energy involved at impact.

reply to post by Ivar_Karlsen


Newsflash! Pan Am 103 didn't impact water.

Originally posted by General.Lee
reply to post by Ivar_Karlsen

 

Newsflash! Pan Am 103 didn't impact water.

I know, have corrected it now.

reply to post by empireoflizards


Yes, I read what airdisaster.com wrote, in their "Special Report: PSA Flight 1771". I question a bit of their research accuracy, because the same article has this:

As the aircraft reached its cruising altitude of 29,000 feet ...

Not saying they said "break-up" in flight for any reason, except a possible error on their part. But, they got the alttiude wrong....

WIki has:

As the plane, a four-engine British Aerospace BAe 146-200, cruised at 22,000 feet (6700 m) over the central California coast, the cockpit voice recorder (CVR) recorded the sound of two shots being fired in the cabin.

Found another article, and it also says "22,000 feet". Says nothing about any breaking up of the airplane, does mention M1.2. (Incidentally, for there to be knowledge of that speed, the Flight Recorder would have had to be still operating. This means that normal electrical power was still functioning. Recorders aren't operated by any 'emergency power' or back-up power sources....).

Time magazine:

The distress call came from Pacific Southwest Airlines Flight 1771 halfway on its run from Los Angeles to San Francisco, flying at 22,000 ft. Two minutes later, the British Aerospace commuter jet shrieked toward earth in a nearly vertical dive and disintegrated as it slammed into a hill...

www.time.com...

Another article, "22,000 feet": www.worldlingo.com...


A history site for PSA mentions a "break-up enroute"...vaguely...but gets the "22,000 feet" correct:

www.psa-history.org...

Well, more searches, and the stories get repetitive....however, only ONE place (airdisaster) gets the cruise altitude wrong.

I have to see the NTSB report, such as it is (it's likely not as detailed as most, since, like on 9/11, the CAUSE of this accident is known. I just have to see details from the FDR...like, whether it operated until impact, or not).

In any case, AT MOST the sorts of pieces that may have separated, prior to impact, would have been non-structural items on the exterior...panel doors, and such. It is vital to know IF the fuselage (pressurized portion) and its contents were intact to impact...and compare any light-weight debris distribution to United 93.....

reply to post by General.Lee


Well....

Explain why this aircraft wasn't reduced to confetti, even though a bomb exploded on-board!

Should be obvious....but I'll ask anyway:

Why would a bomb, in a suitcase in the forward cargo compartment, "reduce to confetti" a Boeing 747? Would it destroy the entire airplane, if it exploded when on the ground? Answer, no.

When it exploded, the structural damage was severe enough that integrity was compromised...this combined with the depressurization, which would have further damaged around the already fractured area. Finally, the air loads, at cruise airspeed, were the last straw and the fuselage broke apart, at the bomb location. After that, it just FELL from the sky....as Ivar noted, it wasn't flown into the ground, intact, at high velocity.

In fact, your answer is in that first photo image...it is the parts of the fuselage re-assembled for the investigation.

You can see the extent of the blast damage, and any subsequent damage from wind and pressure, and impact with the ground.

Originally posted by skeptic_al

Sounds like your in denial like all the other Truthers.
It also sounds like you are expecting to see Wings and Seats scattered every where. Simple Fact is, the Plane was smashed into peices no bigger than a few Inches.

Where have I made an issue with the average size of debris left? You skeptics don't read too well.

I used to drive back and forth between Winchester, Virginia and Cincinnati ,Ohio down the highway next to where
this happened. This would be 1999-2002, and when the accident happened I thought that's out in the country where no one lives. What a perfect place for our own airforce to shoot the plane down and no one would see it happen. I thought I read plane debris covered a 14 mile swath, plus the fact that they roped off the crash
site and would not let the press photograph. Then the whole story disappeared. All weird. Maybe I am really
wrong, that was just the impression I personally had in 2001. That own airforce did it to protect the Capital and they were not going public with that because it looks really harsh and would panic the public.

reply to post by thedman

This thread is only concerned about the alleged excavated debris, which supposedly was most of the plane.

Why can't you skeptics follow along?