It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.

Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.

Thank you.

 

Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.

 

Debate: Do Christians, Muslims, and Jews worship the same God?

page: 2
2
<< 1    3  4 >>

log in

join
share:

posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 02:59 PM
link   
reply to post by thewholepicture
 


I would tend to say Islam is closer to Judaism than it is to Christianity.
Almost like.... Muslims are Jews that accept Jesus and Muhammad as prophets from God.
The same prophetic line as Noah and Moses.
Islam and the Qur'an tell Abraham had much time with Hagar and Ishmael.
Islam actually says Abraham and Ishmael built the Ka'bah in Mecca, Saudi Arabia together.
The Ka'bah is the square building that Muslims go pilgrimage to.
It is said to be the first hous ever dedicated to the worship of God.




posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 03:02 PM
link   
reply to post by Sahabi
 


I remember when I was younger reading about that. Adam built the Kabbah and after the Flood of Noah. Abraham and Ishmael rebuilt it.



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 03:06 PM
link   

Originally posted by Snickersman
reply to post by adjensen
 


Worshiping Jesus or any form of Idol worship is unfamiliar in the Islam and Judaism sense of G-d. You can claim Rastafarians do worship Jesus is some forum. But the concept of G-d in human forum or a part of a divided trinity is totally different how Jews and Muslims worship G-d.


Again, RR, you're misunderstanding my point, and misrepresenting (or misunderstanding) the trinitarian theology. When a Christian worships Jesus, they are not worshiping an idol, they are worshiping God. Jews and Muslims do not agree, I understand that, but it makes no difference to a Christian what the Jewish or Islamic perspective is, period, any more than the Jew cares what the Muslim or Christian perspective is.



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 03:10 PM
link   

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by Sahabi
Jesus/Son and Holy Ghost are only worshipped by Christians.


Except that, by Christian theology, the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are all God. Three aspects, one essence. Three perspectives, one will. Sort of how the happy me, the quiet me and the sad me are all still me, or how my intellect is me, my wisdom is me and my body is me. Not the same thing, but that's a way of looking at it.

So when a Muslim worships God, they are, indeed, worshiping Jesus, just not knowingly (or willfully, depending on how you look at it.) Not that it really matters -- Christian salvation comes through the acceptance and following of Christ, not through the act of worshiping him.


I do not believe Muslims are unintentionally worshipping Jesus.
Here is what Allah in the Qur'an says about the issue:


"O People of the Book (Christians and Jews)! Do not transgress the limits of your religion, and do not say about GOD except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was a messenger of GOD, and His word that He had sent to Mary, and a revelation from Him. Therefore, you shall believe in GOD and His messengers. You shall not say, "Trinity." You shall refrain from this for your own good. GOD is only one god. Be He glorified; He is much too glorious to have a son. To Him belongs everything in the heavens and everything on earth. GOD suffices as Lord and Master."
(4:171)


"The Jews said, "Ezra is the son of GOD," while the Christians said, "Jesus is the son of GOD!" These are blasphemies uttered by their mouths. They thus match the blasphemies of those who have disbelieved in the past. GOD condemns them. They have surely deviated. Upholding the Teachings of Religious Leaders Instead of God's Teachings. They have set up their religious leaders and scholars as lords, instead of GOD. Others deified the Messiah, son of Mary. They were all commanded to worship only one god. There is no god except He. Be He glorified, high above having any partners."
(9:30)


"Say: He is Allah, The One.
Allah, The Eternal, The Absolute.
He begets not, nor was He begotten,
And there is none comparable to Him"
(112)



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 03:14 PM
link   

Originally posted by Sahabi
Almost like.... Muslims are Jews that accept Jesus and Muhammad as prophets from God.
The same prophetic line as Noah and Moses.


No. Islam is branched from Ishmael, Judaism is branched from Isaac. The Muslim perspective is that Abraham's blessing goes to Ishmael, as he was first born, the Jewish perspective is that the blessing follows Isaac, who was first born after the granting of the Covenant. It is also held that Hagar was a slave woman, but Sarah was Abraham's free wife, and God gave Abraham and Sarah Isaac as a miracle to fulfill the promise.

Either way, though, Moses and the Law came long after the time of Ishmael and Isaac, so they are Jewish, not Muslim.



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 03:20 PM
link   

Originally posted by Sahabi
I do not believe Muslims are unintentionally worshipping Jesus.


It doesn't really matter what you or I believe, as this was a statement of logic, not faith.

Can we agree that Christianity is either right or wrong, regardless of which it is? If we can, then, logically, if Christianity is right, Muslims are unintentionally worshipping Jesus, because Jesus is God. If Christianity is wrong, then they are not.

Either way, it makes no difference at all, because a person unintentionally worshipping Christ gains no benefit, as regards Christian salvation and makes no loss, as regards a non-Christian faith.



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 03:23 PM
link   
reply to post by truthiron
 


Muslims believe Jesus to be the Messiah too, does this make them Christian?

I am answering this thread according the the scriptures of the Jews, Christians, and Muslims... not by doctrine, dogma, or personal understanding. Literally, Jews and Muslims worship the same God. Christians worship a Trinity, god in flesh, or son of god.

Personally, I believe everything is a tiny piece of god. Wind, solar flares, dirt, grass, water, butterflies, humans, gold, empty space, gravity.... everything you can see, experience, or imagine is a tiny piece of god.
Infinite existence is collectively God. Just as one single blood cell is not me, but is a tiny piece of me.

I have worshipped God as a Christian and Muslim. I have worshipped God as nature and as the universe. I have worshipped myself as a sovereign creator. I have worshipped existence as Chi energy, Force as in Star Wars, and Matrix as the movie. I must stress to everyone, each moment of belief and understanding... I was communicating with the same thing. It always reacted and interacted with me the same. Prayer gave same results as meditation as understanding as believing as knowing. God is everything and every religion is correct, God is relative to your understanding.



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 03:31 PM
link   
reply to post by adjensen
 


I did not mean line of prophets as in lineage.
I meant as in all these prophets were directed by the same god.
These prophets are all the same in that they point to the same religion of Abraham.

Is Christianity correct?
Yes it is.
But so is Hinduism, Buddhism, Islam, Judaism, Wicca, and all religion and all philosophy.
It is counter productive to human unity, human brotherhood for any one religion to stand up and proclaim to be the master of all. Unity and brotherhood is about Love, Acceptance, Understanding, and Indifference.
If you wish to separate yourself from your fellow humans based on what book you read, then you are only helping to cultivate separation and disunity.

God is relative to each individual person's understandings and truth.
Live morally upright is all that is needed.
Belief is relative. God is relative. God is great!!!



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 03:53 PM
link   
reply to post by Sahabi
 
Sahabi,

It has to be narrowed down though because there is only one way to salvation as there is only one proven Messiah. You asked,

"Muslims believe Jesus to be the Messiah too, does this make them Christian?"

No not unless they truly acknowledge Him as the Creator of all things and is one, of same substance, with the Father, that they are one and the same. That Jesus was also the eternal preexistent one.

This is something I find so many Christians should ask and determine rightly like the Jews of old, "Who Art Thou"? It isn't hard to find the truth about this at all. The Father, Son and Holy Spirit is the 3 ways He presents Himself to us. He is now with us, by the Holy Spirit, "Comforter", and by this He dwells in us and is the "Hope of Glory". It is truly "Wonderful".

There is 12 gates to the Holy City but there is only one way to get to the one we would go in at and that is through the One True Saviour and Creator of all things including all the Hosts. All must come to that one. Their is salvation in none other. He declared,--

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

No man can modify that and He won't either as He does not change, we can depend on Him.

Turthiron.



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 04:49 PM
link   
Even though in the Qur'an it calls Jesus (Isa) Messiah you have to keep in mind that Messiah means 'Anointed One' and not Savior. Muslims view him only as a Prophet. They don't believe he was crucified either, instead he was taken up into Heaven.


edit on 18-12-2010 by Subhuti because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 07:16 PM
link   
This is a tricky question to answer, mainly because of the way it is worded in your OP. IMO all three religions Judaism, Islam and Christianity all believe in the same God of Abraham but the difference is, is that they are all worshipping the same God but just in different ways. I have mentioned this on a few other threads but I guess people thought I was committing blasphemy.

The key point of difference, is how they all see Jesus. Judaism does not see Jesus as the Messiah foretold by the prophets. Muslims see Jesus as primarily a Prophet and Christians see Jesus as the “Son of God”. Of course not every Christian accepts the Trinity, so there are even differences between what some Christian denominations believe when compared to others.


- JC



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 08:24 PM
link   
reply to post by thewholepicture
 

. . .however it is my opinion that All three Religions worship the same God.

I don't know how anyone could be worshiping THE God.
I don't think people can understand what that would be, to start with.
That's why we have this concept of "The God of Abraham".
Because he somehow did, and he is pretty much unique in that respect,
and so we have these various religions based on this one person in the
misty past who spoke to God face to face.
There is this story in Kings about Ahab, king of Israel, who married this
woman from the coastal port cities, who brought along with her a Baal god.
The people of Greater Canaan had a long standing tradition of a Baal god
and the people of Hebraic ancestry were not especially different and took the
word Baal as a generic term for God. But this other Baal of Jezebel was
in certain respects a foreign god and became associated eventually with
the concept of a "portable" god that you could move from place to place and
make copies of, which were just as valid as the original.
That was foreign to the God of Abraham where you could theoretically
build multiple shrines to a single god, who, if he should choose, bless the
worshipers with a brief appearance of some sort. (fire from the sky?)
Elijah had to risk his personal safety to tell Ahab that this Baal of Jezebel's
was in fact not properly a god, or at least definitely not The Real God.


edit on 18-12-2010 by jmdewey60 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 09:14 PM
link   
reply to post by thewholepicture
 


I would say that it's the same God, The God of Abraham. It's just 3 sides of the same story.

Jews don't believe that Jesus qualifies as "The Messiah" and was a false prophet.
Christian accepted the belief that he was, thus creating the wedge.
Islam believes that Ishmael was the true heir to Abraham and was the one called to Abraham to be sacrificed not Issac as the Jews and Christians believe and like the Jews, believe that Jesus was not "The Messiah" but was an important prophet but not as important as Mohammad.

For further proof that Yahweh, God, or Allah is one in the same, read further about the archangel Gabriel.



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 09:46 PM
link   
Nobody really worships the exact same God. God is a concept that is personal and unique to each individual.



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 09:50 PM
link   
Same God, different name. They're all Abrahamic religions; all have many, if not most, of the same prophets. They differ slightly on their view of the nature of this God, but to me it seems pretty clear that they are essentially worshiping the same being.



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 10:20 PM
link   
reply to post by gnosticquasar
 



yup, same God, different prophets but all recognised as at least great teachers by others religions...

i dont believe in god but let s admit it s real... i think that he gave men his words, and as we do best in separate and opposite manners than working together hand in hand, 3 different way of thinking came from those same words...

my 2 cent is that the so called GOD was just an alien entity or something really different than human but with nothing divine unless understood as "far more advanced"... it could also be the remnants of other civilizations on earth, and religions would be their legacy...

in all cases, same origin... different interpretations and will to oppose to each other instead of heading towards the same harbor...

namaste



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 10:28 PM
link   
reply to post by thewholepicture
 

Just to add.

All three believe Jesus is the messiah, Jews are still waiting for the Jesus. Christians believe he already came. Muslims believe a messenger came after him hence Mohammad.

All three are waiting for his resurrection.



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 11:13 PM
link   
Wow this got a greater response than I thought it would.

It's very interesting watching peoples opinion and philosophies on the matter.

So do you guys believe that there is a conspiracy to make people think they are separate gods, in order to cause problems and wars?



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 11:34 PM
link   
These three religions are tied together, and it is a matter of historical fact. The Christians rose out of the Jews, and then the Muslims rose up out of the Christians. It was a slightly different spin on the same beliefs.

Even within Christianity, you have a slight variation from denomination to denomination.

In Islam, the major difference is in the way things are interpreted. The trinity was the major split, in theory (although in fact it was more cultural than anything) with the arabs refusing to believe that God was anything other than a singular being. I honestly believe that they attempted to keep to the monotheistic doctrine, while the Catholics were looking for a way to allow for other idols a la concepts such as the trinity or the saints (who are mostly made up of former pagan gods)

But like Benevolent Heretic said, if you believe in a God, it is different for each person. This is why religion should remain personal. No two people are going to conceptualize the inconceivable in the exact same way. It is best to just accept the overall generalities, and move on.

Strangely enough, while that sounds logical, in practice it can be quite illogical. The fear of making arguments over minor variations of conceptualization are what drives the banning of making an image of Mohammed. He didn't want people arguing over the finite details of his appearance. And we ridicule this concept in the west quite a bit, to the extent of using it to taunt Muslims.



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 11:48 PM
link   

Originally posted by thewholepicture
Wow this got a greater response than I thought it would.

It's very interesting watching peoples opinion and philosophies on the matter.

So do you guys believe that there is a conspiracy to make people think they are separate gods, in order to cause problems and wars?

A conspiracy to make people think they're different Gods? Essentially yes.
I have seen assertions that "Allah" is the Moon god, which is simply absurd. Allah is simply the Arabic word for God and Arabic speaking Christians use it...
Disclaimer - I am a Christian.
Regarding the Trinity, I believe St Patrick used the analogy of the clover - three leaves from the same stem, which seems a pretty good analogy to me!
Vicky



new topics

top topics



 
2
<< 1    3  4 >>

log in

join