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Seattle Police Release Dashcam Video Of Woodcarver's Shooting

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posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 09:42 PM
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reply to post by paearmor
 


I am an active CCH permit holder and have worked in personal protection. I know the 21 foot rule. I also know, from reading info about this case, that the knife was closed and locked when it hit the ground. Plus the guy was partially deaf and probably didn't hear or understand the order.

I understand that soldiers have to follow ROE. Every one with a weapon has to follow ROE or a "use of force continuim." One of the main things they teach in academy or in professional training is how to follow use of force guidlines. However, police and protective service providers are taught to rely on their fire arms a lot less than the military soldiers.

I understand that time is of the esence. However, if most of the shots hit in his right side, he was shot while turning. That means the officer could have back pedalled and gave further warnings. He also could hacve opted for his taser.

Hand gun wounds usually take a while to stop somebody. A taser could have dropped the guy from behind or as he turned. It would have ended an iffy situation quickly. If those five or six shots had missed, or hit no vital areas, the cop still could have been in danger.

The cop over reacted.

I stand by my post and I stand by my assertion that this guy deserves life in prison. Don't give him the death penalty. Then he might get to skip past general population. Trust me general population is a much better way to punish a dirty cop.




posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 09:44 PM
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In my opinion, the cop was in the wrong here..

I do think cops should be able to protect themselves with deadly force if their life is threatened.... however, in this case it appears the cop threatened his own life and killed someone because of his own rookie mistake.

For example, if a guy is trying to run over an officer with his car, I feel the officer has the right to open fire on the driver to protect himself. In this case though, in a manner speaking, the officer jumped in front of the car while it was already moving (put his own life at risk), and shot the driver who probably wasn't even trying to hit him.

If I was in the cops position, I would have distanced myself from the knife so that my life is not at risk. The rookie officer should have not been close enough to the knife to be at risk. The officer put his own life at risk by getting too close to the knife, and that innocent man had to pay the price for the rookie officers mistake.

Pulling the trigger should be the absolute last resort. Demanding someone to drop a knife 3 times is not enough. You should demand indefinitely, and distance your self and protect yourself and others indefinitely until the knife is dropped or isolated. You should not run up to the knife and put your self at risk just so you can kill them!

I also think they should do extra tests before hiring police officers. They should test how easily they get scared for their life, especially if you are going allow officers to use deadly force when they feel their life is threatened. The officer who shot the man is probably a jumpy paranoid rookie.

I think his gun and badge should be taken away.

edit on 18-12-2010 by gift0fpr0phecy because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 09:50 PM
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Originally posted by seeashrink


Why? Because this is what our society is producing. These cops that you are getting now are a product of "timeouts" no corporal punishment. These are the kids that instead of getting their hides tanned got medication for there behavorial problems. These are the latch key kids that received no parental guidence when growing up. These are the kids that never faced consequences for their actions. And now they are cops. They lack judgement, respect, compassion, and consideration for others.


Yeah let's go back to the good ol days of lynching afro americans who were also sold as slaves. Society produced way more compassion back then and police brutality is a completely new concept in America. I believe that's the first Native American actually to have been slaughtered for his percieved value by a white authority. Damn modern days with socialism and medication.

I say send more medication and socialism to USA. They don't know what's good for them.


edit on 18-12-2010 by JustAThought because: (no reason given)

edit on 18-12-2010 by JustAThought because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 09:56 PM
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Originally posted by gift0fpr0phecy


I do think cops should be able to protect themselves with deadly force if their life is threatened.... however, in this case it appears the cop threatened his own life and killed someone because of his own rookie mistake.




Aw yeah cut the rookie some slack. Everyone makes mistakes... Poor little copper. Feel sorry for the rookie.



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 10:00 PM
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wow this is hard


what i saw : an old guy walking slowly where he should walk, at the speed he should walk.... the guy seemed to open a big letter maybe with a little knife, the one the cop asked him to drop...

so is this a dangerous situation ? an old deaf guy, walking slowly on the lines, opening a letter with a small knife on the street...

i mean where this cop grow up ? is he insane i mean mentally insane ? even if the old man was attacking him with such a knife, was shooting the only answer ? 6 shots ???? in 2 seconds ?

seriously, something going wrong with our world, and it s not niburu nor the greys or the NWO... it s us guys, and it s devastating, cause there is no solution the apple is too much rotten ;(

namaste



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 10:01 PM
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taking bets that this a*hole grew up playing call of duty or one of the dozens of other games that promote mindless killing.
there exists an entire sleeper generation of killers who through the video gaming genre have been programmed and hard wired to kill the enemy...usually stereotyped as terrorists, ethnics or marginalized as faceless non persons.
this thug should be made accountable for his 'heroic' actions.



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 10:02 PM
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reply to post by JustAThought
 


you feel sorry for a dumbass MURDERER cow boy ? i feel sorry for you

i feel sorry for the poor family of a poor guy killed cause he was opening a letter in the street with a deadly laser sword... oh sorry a deadly little pocket knife....



edit on 18/12/10 by estebadia because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 10:06 PM
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Completely uncalled for! This is murder.

How hard is it to take out a tazer and use that? Hell, even some damn pepper spray would have been more than enough for this situation (a situation which the policeman created in the first place).

What I find somewhat odd is, when you hear the shots go off (very clearly on the video) the one witness who is on screen seems to just look over like it was just an ordinary thing happening. Is it just me or does that seem very odd?

If I'd have just witnessed a cop shoot someone (for an unknown reason) I'd be ducking for cover and trying to figure out what's going on rather than stand there and hope that there is no crossfire in my direction.



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 10:09 PM
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reply to post by highlyoriginal
 


you re so right .... the witness is just another of those street zombies you can find in mass, worldwide....



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 10:10 PM
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i suppose shooting him in the leg or using a taser was out of the question?

are tasers only used on people who express their freedom of speech? i thought tasers were given to police for this exact situation, to disarm people who may be a threat without anybody getting hurt?

why shoot five times? is one bullet not enough?

this incident was overkill.



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 10:10 PM
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I live in Seattle and I'm glad that this is getting international press. I drove by the shooting site last nite and felt a wave of nausea, having just viewed the video. What happened, IMO, was unwarranted. We Seattleites know very little about Officer Birk....except he had recently come back from Iraq. Scary.



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 10:14 PM
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You don't shoot someone 5 times to disarm a knife-bearer... 1 shot is plenty enough, in the leg, in the arm, doesnt even need to be the chest...


I hope by now people will understand this isn't meant to defend the cop. I am just trying to spread a little information that may help save a life.

In a high stress situation do not try to play action hero. Aiming for an arm or leg significantly decreases your chances of hitting your target. It also does nothing to insure that the person will lose the ability to attack. Aim for center mass. The arms and legs are small targets that can move rapidly. The torso is big and even during rapid movement a shot at center mass is likely to still hit some where on the torso. Aiming for the space between the nipples is the best spot. if the person moves you have multiple inches on either side for error. Also you have a couple inches up or down for poor shooting. Most importantly even a bullet that goes off target may hit something vital.

A handgun bullet is much weaker than a rifle or a shotgun. We are talking 80% or more difference in strength. If a man shot mutliple times with a rifle can keep fighting, can a handgun be reasonably expected to stop with one shot? The answer is no. Even a hit to the heart can take 15 seconds or longer to stop some one. So, never assume that one shot equals a stop. Even a shot to the brain can fail to stop someone immediately.

There are two ways a bullet stops a person. They person either loses so much blood that they pass out, or their central nervous system is so disrupted they can not continue to function. Pain can cause that disruption for some people. However, different people have different pain tollerances. So, relying on pain is a bad plan.

There is another reason for multiple shots. In stressful situations people sometimes switch in to survival mode. That means they react totally off of muscle memory and rely on instinct. That is why it is actually very common for people to shoot more than they realize. It is not uncommon for police officers, soldiers, or civilians to fire more shots than they realize. A person may honestly believe they shot one time when the reality is they shot four or five times.

I know it has happened to me when defending against an animal. I thought I had fired two shots. In reality I had fired four shots.

Hopefully all of that came across in a coherent manner. I am getting too tired to keep up with my own train of thought.


reply to post by Shikamaru
 



edit on 18-12-2010 by MikeNice81 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 10:14 PM
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Originally posted by estebadia
reply to post by JustAThought
 


you feel sorry for a dumbass MURDERER cow boy ? i feel sorry for you

i feel sorry for the poor family of a poor guy killed cause he was opening a letter in the street with a deadly laser sword... oh sorry a deadly little pocket knife....



edit on 18/12/10 by estebadia because: (no reason given)


I'm sorry i thought the irony in my post was obvious.

No i do NOT feel sorry for the cop. He's not a cop. He's a coldhearted killer nomatter how you twist and turn events.

I feel sorry for the victim ofcourse. I feel sorry for those people who pay for this sort of "protection", but get all upset when they have to pay for weak individuals with no hopes or chance to make it in a modern day society. I feel sorry for the witnesses. Had i witnessed this live it would've sent me into a traumatic state of mind. I don't ever want to visit a country where there's a chance i'll get shot down by insane cops for some minor fault knowing that this cop will still be on the payroll of the American people and i'll never wish for any of my loved ones to go there either.



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 10:14 PM
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Originally posted by KritikalMass
taking bets that this a*hole grew up playing call of duty or one of the dozens of other games that promote mindless killing.
there exists an entire sleeper generation of killers who through the video gaming genre have been programmed and hard wired to kill the enemy...usually stereotyped as terrorists, ethnics or marginalized as faceless non persons.
this thug should be made accountable for his 'heroic' actions.


How do you figure video games promote "mindless killings"? I play violent video games like Call Of Duty all the time and I've never wanted to kill anyone. I know a lot of people that play them too and they're not homicidal maniacs either. Cops have been abusing their power for quite some time now, It's human nature: Power Corrupts.

Cops, like all other folks, get corrupted by their power. The more power they have, the more corrupted they can (and often do) become.



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 10:19 PM
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Originally posted by Rockdisjoint

Originally posted by KritikalMass
taking bets that this a*hole grew up playing call of duty or one of the dozens of other games that promote mindless killing.
there exists an entire sleeper generation of killers who through the video gaming genre have been programmed and hard wired to kill the enemy...usually stereotyped as terrorists, ethnics or marginalized as faceless non persons.
this thug should be made accountable for his 'heroic' actions.


How do you figure video games promote "mindless killings"? I play violent video games like Call Of Duty all the time and I've never wanted to kill anyone. I know a lot of people that play them too and they're not homicidal maniacs either. Cops have been abusing their power for quite some time now, It's human nature: Power Corrupts.

Cops, like all other folks, get corrupted by their power. The more power they have, the more corrupted they can (and often do) become.



Yeap. I love it when people think there wasn't any violence pre video games. LOL.

I believe video games actually have us live out our predator nature in a safe virtual environment. Releasing some steam
On steam


The world is a much more peaceful place than the old days and we're alot more people. I don't have a pessimistic view of the world. I think it's getting better daily, but sometimes these stupid things just happen and you just gotta keep fighting. Truth, true freedom and justice, WILL slowly makes it's way to the top, although sometimes it gets off track.


edit on 18-12-2010 by JustAThought because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 10:19 PM
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FWIW, I contacted the following folks if you are as concerned as I am:

Seattle Mayor Mike McGinn: www.seattle.gov...

Seattle Police Dpt. OPA: www.seattle.gov...

Feds investigating the incident:

Thomas Perez
Assistant Attorney General
United States Department of Justice Civil Rights Division,
Special Litigation Section
950 Pennsylvania Ave. NW, Washington, D.C. 20530

Honorable Jenny Durkan
United States Attorney
700 Stewart St.
Seattle, WA 98101



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 10:23 PM
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reply to post by JustAThought
 


oh sorry buddy, i m usually good at irony but it s 5 am here in paris, i just woke up and coffee still not kickin my brain


namaste
edit on 18/12/10 by estebadia because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 10:32 PM
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reply to post by seeashrink
 


Officer Birk will have an inquest in January. No civil or criminal liability will be decided in the inquiry.

www.aclu-wa.org...



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 10:34 PM
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reply to post by Crumbles
 

This is bs. Now if the cope ever come to anyone's house they will be put into an deli-ma. Shoot first? Or you may end up like the guy with the water hoes or this one. I don't care what the reason is, why they are. This is about self preservation!!!!!!! Disarm all these m-fers



posted on Dec, 18 2010 @ 10:42 PM
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reply to post by JustAThought
 


Bud, kinda went off the deep end with this a little didn't ya. I say that the last couple of generations have not been taught respect and discipline, and you go back to slavery and the American Indian. I think that you totally missed the point somewhere. WTF!
Seeashrink



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