5 Myth about Islam

reply to post by racasan


I was providing an example to illustrate my point. There is a big difference between lying like:
"No, sir, I am not harbouring any jews in my house"

And:
"Yes, I agree to your peace treaty...mwahahahahahha" [stabs in the back]

Guess which one Islam allows and which one it doesn't?

reply to post by babloyi


en.wikipedia.org...

so both

and just to head you off at the pass:
Koran 47.4: “Therefore, when ye meet the unbelievers, smite at their necks and when you have caused a bloodbath among them, bind a bond firmly on them.”

Koran 4.89: “They but wish that ye should reject faith as they do, and thus be on the same footing as they, so take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah. But if they turn renegades, seize them and kill them wherever ye find them, and take no friends or helpers from their ranks.”

Koran 8.39: “Fight them until there is no dissension and the religion is entirely Allah’s.”

9:123: Oh ye who believe! Murder those of the disbelievers and let them find harshness in you.

The above means muslims must have only a temporary peace or they wont be able to complete allah’s mission

And because I know your going to tell me some reason why none of the above counts – I have to point out to you, muslims are permitted to lie – so why should I believe you?


what I’m trying to say is that muslims have a credibility gap, that one way or another has the potential to take the world to a very dark place and given what’s a stake, what incentive does the world have to trust islam?

reply to post by racasan

Waitwhat? You link me to a wikipedia article that talks about "peace treaty", to show how what I said was wrong? I don't follow, sorry. There is nothing temporary about it. The thing with the treaty of Hudaiba (the one mentioned in the article) is that it was a treaty of 10 years (a number agreed on by both the muslims and the meccans at the time), that was then BROKEN BY THE MECCANS when they attacked the muslims the very next year! It mentions nothing about creating a treaty with intention of breaking it. Such behaviour, in fact, is STRICTLY and EXPLICITLY prohibited in the Quran

See, this is the problem with threads that last this long. They get long, and nobody reads through it all, and nobody really cares (honestly, no offense to you), except to push across their own personal point of view. Those verses you quoted were referenced (and answered) in the OP, then lots of other people brought them up again (without noticing how many times they had been referenced), and they were addressed AGAIN. You might want to read those verses in the context of what they were written, rather than pulling them out and looking at them alone.

reply to post by hezbgal


I was going to point out Oozy is no longer with us.
But then I realised!

Oozy is banned. Long live Oozy!

The sex-change suits you.

How about the myth of Mohammed?

I have read that he was a Jew and a Cardinal of the Roman Church, one Lothar Schmalfuss.

"Today he is called Mohammed (570-632), but his real name was Lothar Schmalfuss.....The reference is found in a book called 'Chronica Majora', a summary of world history from biblical Creation to the year of the author's death. It was written by Matthew Paris (d.1259), a pious Christian monk, described by the church 'as an historian who holds the first place among English chroniclers'. From his quaint specimen of Abbey records, the erudite Monk explained how Mohammed started an 'impious religion':

It is well known that Mohammed was once a cardinal, and became heretic because he failed to be elected pope. Also (later in life) having drunk to excess, he fell by the roadside, and in this condition was killed by swine. And for that reason, his followers abhor pork even unto this day. "

www.cyberspaceorbit.com...

This is an interesting article also:www.watchmanbiblestudy.com...




I'm skeptical about the pork part, as this also seems to be the reason that we traditionally have ham at easter.
There is an Egyptian story that Horus was killed by a wild boar and that being the reason the pig is killed for Easter dinner. Seems to be one of those hand-me-down stories that gets fastened to certain people.

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Originally posted by tom502
I'm not a fan of Islam, and while I know not every Muslim is a terrorist fanatic, it does have big enough element within it to not turn a blind eye.

That's the problem. A violent minority willing to kill in the name of Islam, is just too dangerous to pretend it doesn't exist.

The problem, judged on the basis of an ever greater number of American Muslims arrested for terrorism, is accelerating:-

US home-grown terrorists 'a global threat', warns congresswoman

In a letter to the president, Sue Myrick, a member of the House of Representatives select committee on intelligence, says that America is for the first time exporting Islamist terrorism.

In her letter, Mrs Myrick writes: "For many years we lulled ourselves with the idea that radicalisation was not happening inside the United Sates.

"We believed American Muslims were immune to radicalisation because, unlike the European counterparts, they are socially and economically well-integrated into society.

She goes on: "Today there is no doubt that radicalisation is taking place inside America. The strikingly accelerated rate of American Muslims arrested for involvement in terrorist activities since May 2009 makes this fact self-evident.

What has been missed is that our home-grown terrorists are now becoming a global threat."

Some of those arrested over the last year, including Faizal Shazad, the Times Square bomber, "embodied the American dream, at least socio-economically," she adds.

She said that the interpretation that social grievances are at the heart of domestic terrorism is wrong and adds: "The truth is that if grievances were the sole cause of terrorism, we would see daily acts by Americans who have lost their jobs and homes in this economic downturn."

Her call coincides with that of congressman Peter King, the incoming Republican head of the house committee on homeland security who said last weekend that he would hold hearings radicalisation, alleging that law-enforcement officials around the country had told him they received little co-operation from Muslims.

www.telegraph.co.uk...

The Congressman and the Congresswoman make the following points -

1. US Muslims are now exporting terror abroad.

2. Muslim extremism isn't caused by social deprivation - in the article the Congresswomen cites that the Times Square bomber was living the US dream (socio-economically).

3. Law enforcement officials around the US have received little co-operation from the US Muslim community - according to the Congressman head of House Committee on Homeland Security.

reply to post by oozyism


my good man thank you for posting this , i have started a thread or two on the whole anti Muslim thing my self , and i can tell you that in my time i was a strong Anti Muslim , the only way i can explain what its like to be Anti Muslim is simply every aspect of the religion feels evil in all forms , but once you open your heart and mind and learn what being Muslim is all about ,i can tell you that all that negitive feeling twards Islam turns into an unexplainable closeness to god or Allah ,its an overwhelming feeling of pure Love ,. and i can tell you that never have i seen a religion so dedicated to god , people must understand that to be Muslim means to be a slave to god and you must keep in mind that to be a slave to god means absolute dedication even if that means not fallowing the Norm in society ,

when the time comes for you anti Muslims to understand Islam then you will understand my simple words

and the words of all Muslims in this world ,

and the words are

THEIR IS NO GOD BUT GOD

peace be with you

Love brother Nephi

Originally posted by glen200376
Ooztism is another muslim who loved living in the muslim world that much that he ran away to New Zealand!No doubt another assylum seeker in 'fear' of his life!Don't tell me that your loving muslim brothers were going to kill you Oozy?The amount of assylum seekers coming to the west shows that these countries which are run by religion through and through are anything but peaceful.If they try to kill so many of their own countrymen do you really think that they won't kill other countries people given half a chance?Prevention is better than cure!

You know once the tambourine shaking, serpent kissing, speaking-in-tongues, fundi-Christian lot take over here, you bet I am going to jump ship to a more secular country!

Just because an extremist group attempts to co-op a religion such as Wahabbinism with Islam or extreme Pentecostalism in Christianity, does not nullify the true message of the religion.

Originally posted by Nephi1337
...once you open your heart and mind and learn what being Muslim is all about...

...people must understand that to be Muslim means to be a slave to god and you must keep in mind that to be a slave to god means absolute dedication even if that means not fallowing the Norm in society

I don't want to be a slave of Allah...

Originally posted by ollncasino

Originally posted by Nephi1337
...once you open your heart and mind and learn what being Muslim is all about...

...people must understand that to be Muslim means to be a slave to god and you must keep in mind that to be a slave to god means absolute dedication even if that means not fallowing the Norm in society

I don't want to be a slave of Allah...

Sounds exactly like the bible!

1Co 7:22-23 LITV For the one called while a slave in the Lord is a freed man of the Lord. And likewise, the one called while a free man is a slave of Christ. 23 You were redeemed with a price; do not become slaves of men.

You see when Jesus died on the cross for the payment of our sins he bought us with his own precious blood. He now owns us and the Word says we are to become a slave of Christ. That is an awesome thought!

In the Bible, Paul saw himself as a slave of Christ.

faithbiblechurchofwarren.wordpress.com...

Originally posted by Anthony1138
All organized religions have a few crazies (believe this or die, kinda approach)

But why does Islam have so many crazies compared to all other religions?

Muslim extremists have carried out violent Jihad in the following countries in 2010:

Pakistan:
Afghanistan;
Iraq;
Thailand;
China;
Yemen;
Algeria;
India;
Palestine;
Somalia;
Russia;
Egypt;
Ingushetia;
Philippines;
Dagestan;
Jordan;
Mali;
Nigeria;
Uganda;
USA;
Kosovo;
Liberia
Chechnya;
Saudi Arabia;
Germany;
France;
Israel;
Bangladesh;
Lebanon;
Ethiopia;
DRC (Congo);
Ukraine.

www.thereligionofpeace.com...

For a religion of peace, it sure does a lot of killing.

why was oozysm banned. Was it because of this thread. If it was I don't think he did anything wrong. he was right about most things

like anyone gives a #..............................

reply to post by oozyism


Thank you for this.
Hopefully both sides of this rediculous argument of muslim versus non-muslim come to realise those points.
I myself, am not in the slightest bit religious and personally I'm tired of religion being used as a cover for pure, unexcusable hate.

If there's one thing the points you've raised prove, it's this: Islam is not a violent religion.

Unfortunately a lot of it's believers live in impoverished or poorly run countries, so they see she rest of the world as better off, some of their extremest preachers preach that this seemingly better off world is somehow evil. Because they are inherantly poorly educated the misinformed become angry and some eventually become what we now call terrorists (I suppose we didn't have a different name for them before, but hopefully you'll understand I'm refering to the "post 9/11 terrorist) they never stop to question what they are being told by the preacher as they were never thought to question what they are being told by someone who "know's better".
Parallels can be drawn to christians in the west (although what they are being told is slightly less violent... slightly) they listen to the preacher and never actually read their bible, just the snippets they're shown on sunday, their excuse isn't lack of education, but laziness.
The bible is huge.
And what evidence do I have for knowing the masses of people who claim to read the bible are lying. Well read fo yourself and find out, there's no quicker route to atheism.

Some people might use their religion and misinterpritations of it's writings as a cover, but this just proves what we all suspected about religeous fundamentalists... THEY ARE COWARDS

And if any militant muslims, or indeed any militant fundamental christians are reading this I have a short message for you all.
Stop using belief systems as a cover and stand up for yourselves and just say what YOU really hate.
Put foreward a logical argument for why people should listen to you and act like you.
And if you can't do that much...then shut your face and f##k yourself.

Man I have a habit of ranting on this site...

and huh 32 Staring This? with 52 flags so should i now say all of you are Islamic Apologists ?
This AboveTopSecret Not an Islamic Apologist forum.


Want me to buy you tickets to Bosnia or France ? islamization is happening in Europe if ATS members cant see thats to bad.

Funny under the sub forum Conspiracies in Religions there are no threads or attacks on Islam yet there are countless of threads of hatred and attack threads on Christianity and Judaism

Example (Jesus Didn't Exist)

Yet then go on claiming religions are the same but on this thread you are been Apologist to Islam?

I don't post often, unless I feel I have some thing that can help open minds or hearts, but I am by no means perfect, and do not have all the answers, so please refrain from attacking me, as I will not respond. All I ask is that you say to yourself "what if" this view is correct.

I feel the biggest problem we have in all religions is people. There are basic truths out there, and all major religions were started on this basic premise. Unfortunately, from this point forward we have to rely on human interpretation, and anyone who has played the kids game "telephone" knows, interpretations differ, for as many reasons as there are people. I will refrain from quoting any specific instances because that is not the important point.

Take any person, any religion or lack there of, remove the labels. Everyone knows inside of themselves basic right from wrong. An atheist might not believe that a higher being is pulling the strings, but they still know right from wrong. a religious person thinks they must answer to a higher power, but they still know right from wrong. The problem is when we get our ideas of right and wrong from some other human interpretation. There are those who know they are doing wrong, but don't care, and they will sway others to do their bidding. Sheeple will follow if they do not look inside themselves for the answer.

I think religions can be an important part of the basic structures of self improvement, but ultimately each one of us MUST look inside for the answers we seek, not blindly follow what some other human says. Even if this other person is right, they are not living your specific experience. No matter how big or small your ambitions are, they are yours alone, and your path should not be determined by another. Use religious teachings as signposts to help you, sure, there are truths in there somewhere, but remember that every person will interpret and disseminate the information differently.

Anyways to my basic point. The wars, the religious debates, the fighting, it all comes back to he said, she said. None of these arguments ever come back to "I looked inside myself for the answer, i felt or calculated right from wrong, and here is the answer...." We always come back to what someone else told us was just(notice I did not say right).

So as we all cast judgement, and say Islam is this, Christianity said that, look inside (pray, meditate, whatever you want to call it) and know right from wrong, and don"t just spout what someone/anyone told you to say. Religion does not have all the answers, but that is not to say that religion is bad, I just don't think any of us has cornered the market on being right. Love more, judge less.

Love and light

reply to post by oozyism


Sorry, I'm late to the party . I appreciate what you did there oozy (in the op), I think after so many pages the problem that most people have is that in countries where Sharia is practiced, which by definition is 100% Quranic law, apostates have been killed, despite your literary proof to the contrary. People, therefore assume (and I really can't fault them) that perhaps there are other verses or something that does support it. Otherwise, wouldn't there be some sort of rebellion, or ousting of the officials that decree such punishments.

Something that immediately comes to mind is a case that occurred a little over a month ago in Pakistan. A Christian woman was accused of insulting Muhammad, and she was sentenced to death here, which was ordered by the clerics.

Like I said, I really do appreciate what you were trying to accomplish, but for every one oozy, fighting the good fight, there is a backwards lynch mob and a goofy cleric to oppose it. I think that the key here for everyone is education, but it has to be both sides that are educated otherwise it's a losing fight.

oozy was banned? guess I shouldn't wait for a reply

Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter
Want me to buy you tickets to Bosnia or France ? islamization is happening in Europe if ATS members cant see thats to bad.

The process is also underway in the US.


USA: Indianapolis - grandma under investigation for suspected terrorist ties

...an Indiana grandmother, who is a Muslim convert, has caught the attention of federal investigators after she was seen in a recent pro-jihadist video.

www.fox59.com...

Farooque Ahmed arrested over 'plot to bomb Washington DC Metro'

Mr Ahmed's arrest is the latest in a line of investigations of US citizens or residents for involvement in alleged domestic terror plots. Last year there were arrests over plans for attacks in Texas, Colorado and Illinois.

www.bbc.co.uk...

American Muslim indicted by FBI for wanting to join US military to kill soldiers

According to the complaint, Shehadeh plotted to deploy with the US military to Iraq, but once there to desert the military and then fight alongside Islamic terrorists against the US.

www.examiner.com...

On the other hand...

Hate Crimes Against Muslims "rare" Study Shows

The Hamas-linked Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR) has claimed that "anti-Muslim hate crimes" have risen sharply in the U.S. since 9/11.

In fact, the rate of such crimes has actually dropped, and as this new study shows, it is quite low compared to hate crimes against other groups.

Blacks made up around three-quarters of victims of the racially motivated hate crimes and Jews made up the same percentage of victims of anti-religious hate crimes, the report said.

Anti-Muslim crimes were a distant second to crimes against Jews, making up just eight percent of the hate crimes driven by religious intolerance.

www.rightsidenews.com...

reply to post by imperium1984


Then there's the 3 young Christian school Girls in Indonesia, whom were attacked and beheaded on their way to school, by Muslim jihadists....

They left one of the severed heads on the front steps of the local christian church..

A forth girl survived the attack with horrific injuries to her head and neck....

When was the last time a Christian gang beheaded a group of Muslim schoolgirls in a western country like the US, australia, England, France etc..?

reply to post by Ironclad


Right, but again I really think we need to focus on education. Most of these extremists, are poorly educated, they are taken under the tutelage of extremists, who preach a warped sense of Islam and then go on killing sprees.

I am not Muslim, however, I have read the Quran, and while we can go back and forth with calls to violence and calls to peace, this type of behavior is forbidden. Simple logic will tell you this. Islam began is the 600's, here we are in 2010, and there are Christian and Jewish populations that have lived in Muslim countries the entire time. If the killing of all non Muslims truly was the teaching, these populations would have been exterminated already. They have not. I'm not saying it has always been easy, but these populations have existed since the founding of Christianity/Judaism.

This epidemic of loony toons I think is a relatively recent development. Imho, it is completely politically based hidden beneath the religious justification. Most countries that are successful in recruiting large numbers of zealots are largely poor, lack education, and feel wronged on a political level (land seizure, oil revenue, occupation by a foreign country, etc)

There is no escaping the fact that the poor are typically far more religious than the wealthy, the need to know that your struggle will be rewarded in some way or justified, I suppose. This does not explain the random crazies that every society has, but these individuals are usually thought to be crazy within there own society. The difference is these randoms now have a safe haven they can flock to and be with like like minded crazies, therefore producing an overwhelming crop of insanity, feeding off of each other.