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5 Myth about Islam

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posted on Dec, 19 2010 @ 01:22 PM
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These discussions are so pointless in my opinion...

It's like the clash between darwinism/creationism and alternate origins theories.. The only thing we can all agree on is that we DONT HAVE A CLUE which one is actually true, we can only make educated guesses. Both science and religion are trying the same, explain the unexplainable, and guess what, they both fail at it miserably.




posted on Dec, 19 2010 @ 01:37 PM
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reply to post by Romekje
 



No discussion is ever pointless..the mere fact that we can think and question gives us validity as a life.form..
We must question everything ...otherwise ..why have a brain and free thought ..if we didn't have that...we are no more than amoeba's....

However , i think there are a lot of ameoba's about...the reiligious and those that follow politics..searching for a light ...that they cannot connect to within!!



posted on Dec, 19 2010 @ 02:17 PM
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Originally posted by awake_and_aware
reply to post by oozyism
 


How did they get the knowledge of God? and his desires?

When this was created, it wasn't common understanding that humans existed on a planet, an oblate sphere of matter, never mind how the whole of universal existence came to be. How can Muslims or any other Theists claim to reveal wisdom as to the source of creation AND "his/her/it's" desires or whether it has desires at all? What evidence is there of Allah other than pointing to scripture?

Looking forward to you answering my questions and responding to my arugment.

Peace and Understanding,

A&A
edit on 18/12/10 by awake_and_aware because: (no reason given)



lol.

PLEASE EXPLAIN RELIGION, THE PAST, AND THE MEANING OF LIFE! THANKS!

give me a break.

If history was riddled with people like you we would never get anywhere, because everyone would stand around with their finger up their ass saying:

"thats stupid. your stupid. Although i have nothing to contribute myself, what you have just postulated is stupid."

To say what you have said, you clearly have no understanding of religion, philosophy, or common sense. There are lots of answers to your broad question that have been covered again and again since pre-enlightenment. Religion is only one of those answers, and nobodies asking you to submit to it.

Educate yourself, fool

edit: I think Oozy's words are being taken and transformed. Oozy is saying that the religion that is Islam. in its purest form, doesnt represent any of the things outlined in his OP. and after taking a full 3rd year university course on islam from 700ad to the present i agree with what hes said.

The fact that modern extremists have distorted Islamic doctrine as we see it doesnt mean that Islam inherently holds these qualities. And, the fact reamins that the majority of Muslims are perfectly peaceful, and do not accord with the depiction of Muslims you people have painted with your Youtube videos that amount to little more then vicious slurs on reality.


edit on 19-12-2010 by SPACEYstranger because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 19 2010 @ 04:41 PM
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Originally posted by SPACEYstranger

edit: I think Oozy's words are being taken and transformed. Oozy is saying that the religion that is Islam. in its purest form, doesnt represent any of the things outlined in his OP. and after taking a full 3rd year university course on islam from 700ad to the present i agree with what hes said.

The fact that modern extremists have distorted Islamic doctrine as we see it doesnt mean that Islam inherently holds these qualities. And, the fact reamins that the majority of Muslims are perfectly peaceful, and do not accord with the depiction of Muslims you people have painted with your Youtube videos that amount to little more then vicious slurs on reality.


edit on 19-12-2010 by SPACEYstranger because: (no reason given)


You mean you have spent a year studying a whitewashed version of Islam - with your dept of ME studies no-doubt heavily dependent on Saudi sponsoring - Islam is a violent intolerant doctrine - period it is ridiculous to pretend that it isn't - huge % of muslims support terrorism, stoning etc as a recent survey has confirmed - and as Turkey's prime minister has also recently stated "there is no moderste Islam"



posted on Dec, 19 2010 @ 04:51 PM
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reply to post by SeaWind
 


oh, i know you're not calling for genocide. i was just saying that i see no way to massively convert muslims and without that the only way to stop its spread is genocide, which we both agree is not an option. i agree with your effort to spread the truth, people need to know it. i just think most people are so brain washed that the effort will mostly stop NEW converts from converting and have little effect on those born into muslim families etc. i'm worried about the islamification of europe as well, i just see it dying down eventually as the older generations die out and the younger ones seek to integrate. as for the middle east, well, that place is a snake pit and i have no solution for that.

btw, i apologize if yout hought i was insinuating that you wanted a genocide or anything like it.
edit on 19-12-2010 by snusfanatic because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 19 2010 @ 05:17 PM
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Originally posted by Freeborn
reply to post by ToneDeaf
 


Likening heaven to 10 virgins going to meet a bridegroom is completely different to oozy's allegation that the Islamic tale of martyr's rewards in heaven including 72 virgins also being in The Bible.

oozy asks for sources when it suits him yet has failed to supply any source for his own allegation.


In heaven you can have what ever you wish, 1 virgin, 1 cow, 72 virgins, or 72 virgin cows.

People who go to heaven can wish for what ever they please, hence they still have free will.

The same goes for Christians.

Are you suggesting Christians can't have 72 virgins?



posted on Dec, 19 2010 @ 05:33 PM
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reply to post by ShakeNBake
 


No where in the Bible does it say the new Testament is a replacement for the old Testament.

But

I know what it does say:


"Do not think that I [Jesus] have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. (Matthew 5:17-18)"


Funny, the above verse says Jesus didn't come to abolish the law.



posted on Dec, 19 2010 @ 05:37 PM
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Originally posted by oozyism

Originally posted by Freeborn
reply to post by ToneDeaf
 


Likening heaven to 10 virgins going to meet a bridegroom is completely different to oozy's allegation that the Islamic tale of martyr's rewards in heaven including 72 virgins also being in The Bible.

oozy asks for sources when it suits him yet has failed to supply any source for his own allegation.


In heaven you can have what ever you wish, 1 virgin, 1 cow, 72 virgins, or 72 virgin cows.

People who go to heaven can wish for what ever they please, hence they still have free will.

The same goes for Christians.

Are you suggesting Christians can't have 72 virgins?


Not the issue oozy, you demand sources of other's when you clearly haven't supplied them yourself.

You clamed that exactly the same as The Koran, The Bible contains a reference to 72 virgins in heaven.
People asked you to supply evidence.
You haven't.
Because you can't.
Because it isn't there.
Therefore you made it up.

Not that it would bother me, and as I'm Agnostic I don't spend much time thinking about it, but I suspect that most religious types don't believe that you can have whatever they please in heaven.

But I think discussions about the nature of heaven should be for another thread.



posted on Dec, 19 2010 @ 05:45 PM
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Originally posted by Freeborn



Not the issue oozy, you demand sources of other's when you clearly haven't supplied them yourself.

You clamed that exactly the same as The Koran, The Bible contains a reference to 72 virgins in heaven.

Yes, in the same manner they claimed 72 virgins can be found in Koran, 72 virgins can also be found in the Bible. No were in the Quran does it say 72 virgin (absolutely no where). No where in the Bible does it say 72 virgin, but both the Bible and Quran claim people can wish for what ever they want in heaven. That's how the conclusion of 72 virgins have come about.




People asked you to supply evidence.
You haven't.
Because you can't.
Because it isn't there.
Therefore you made it up.

Not that it would bother me, and as I'm Agnostic I don't spend much time thinking about it, but I suspect that most religious types don't believe that you can have whatever they please in heaven.

But I think discussions about the nature of heaven should be for another thread.


I have supplied evidence. An ATS colleague also supplied evidence, hence he provided a verse which talks about heaven being like 10 virgins.



posted on Dec, 19 2010 @ 06:12 PM
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reply to post by oozyism
 


In this post you clearly state 'the 72 virgins are in The Bible'.
www.abovetopsecret.com...
They aren't.
You made it up.

I'm no expert on scripture but I'm pretty certain that nowhere in The Bible does it state that 'people can have whatever they want in heaven', but I could be wrong.
Maybe you could supply a source for that.

As I said before, discussions on the nature of heaven should really be for another thread.
It would only derail this one, but your thread - it's up to you.



I have supplied evidence. An ATS colleague also supplied evidence, hence he provided a verse which talks about heaven being like 10 virgins.


No YOU haven't, a 'colleague' tried to.
As I said before, likening heaven to 10 virgins is not the same as martyr's getting rewarded with 72 virgins in heaven.
The former does not support the latter.



posted on Dec, 19 2010 @ 06:22 PM
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reply to post by Freeborn
 


I think you are mis-understanding me.

When they claim there is the mention of 72 virgins in Quran and there is not such a mention

=

When I claim there is the mention of 72 virgins in the Bible and there is not such a mention

------

It is exactly the same.

If the Bible says you can have what ever you want in heaven then 72 virgin is included.

The above being said, I have to research the verses which states the above.

-----

Regarding heaven being like 10 virgins.

That simply means that the Bible is closer to the claim than the Quran, hence, no where in Quran does it say 72 virgins, but at least in the Bible it is 10 virgins, even if they are comparing the heaven with 10 virgins, what does that even mean.



posted on Dec, 19 2010 @ 06:52 PM
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reply to post by oozyism
 


Ok, I accept that neither in The Koran or Bible does it mention anything about martyr's being rewarded with 72 virgins.

But, that doesn't stop some unscrupulous Imam's and other influential Muslim clerics and leaders from propogating this myth to influence and encourage poorly educated, impressionable and disaffected people into comitting acts of terrorism / martyrdom.

The majority of 'myths' that you have highligted stem from elements within Islam itself and the onus should be on Muslims themselves to redress the balance.
Is it any wonder that non-Muslims believe these 'myths' when very few Muslims do little to dispel them?



posted on Dec, 19 2010 @ 07:00 PM
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Originally posted by Romekje
These discussions are so pointless in my opinion...

It's like the clash between darwinism/creationism and alternate origins theories.. The only thing we can all agree on is that we DONT HAVE A CLUE which one is actually true, we can only make educated guesses. Both science and religion are trying the same, explain the unexplainable, and guess what, they both fail at it miserably.


The fact that we can make educated guesses derives from the fact that we do have a clue. We in fact have a vast number of clues. Your understanding of both science and religion is so sadly lacking -- you clearly find it unimportant, so please do not mess up conversations about it by shouting how little it matters to you.

Very good post, Oozyism.



posted on Dec, 19 2010 @ 07:11 PM
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Originally posted by Freeborn
reply to post by oozyism
 


Ok, I accept that neither in The Koran or Bible does it mention anything about martyr's being rewarded with 72 virgins.

But, that doesn't stop some unscrupulous Imam's and other influential Muslim clerics and leaders from propogating this myth to influence and encourage poorly educated, impressionable and disaffected people into comitting acts of terrorism / martyrdom.

The majority of 'myths' that you have highligted stem from elements within Islam itself and the onus should be on Muslims themselves to redress the balance.
Is it any wonder that non-Muslims believe these 'myths' when very few Muslims do little to dispel them?


The only to stop people from using religion falsely is through knowledge and debate.

People will always use them, they have to be proven wrong accordingly.

If someone is justifying the murder of innocent people, using what ever logic, idea, system, or religion, must be proven wrong.

It is not like other ideas haven't been used to justify the murder of innocent people, hence the idea "survival of the fittest" has been used, Christianity has been used, Islam has been used.. etc

Discussions and debates are good.



posted on Dec, 19 2010 @ 07:25 PM
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Prophet also spoke of 72 sects of islam..that number shows up again..



posted on Dec, 19 2010 @ 07:27 PM
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Also whats with the worship of the black rock?



posted on Dec, 19 2010 @ 07:29 PM
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Why did prophet go back to allah twice in regards to prayers? Apparently moses and jesus told Muhammed to ask allah to lessen prayers for the people. If Muhammed was the greatest ever man to walk the earth..why take orders from moses and jesus?



posted on Dec, 19 2010 @ 07:31 PM
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reply to post by oozyism
 


I agree that education and debate are the best ways to dispel these 'myth's' but when the very elements within Islam that help propogate them seek to stifle debate and education unless it fit's in with their world and religious viewpoint it's pretty much a hopeless cause.
The drive for debate and education had to come from within Islam itself and unfortunately far too many Muslims are either scared to do this or simply don't want to.

It's pretty much pointless trying to convince the like's of me of the fallacy of these myth's it's the people who are likely to be strapping bombs to themselves or preaching hatred who need to be hearing it!



posted on Dec, 19 2010 @ 07:36 PM
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Originally posted by Freeborn
reply to post by oozyism
 


I agree that education and debate are the best ways to dispel these 'myth's' but when the very elements within Islam that help propogate them seek to stifle debate and education unless it fit's in with their world and religious viewpoint it's pretty much a hopeless cause.
The drive for debate and education had to come from within Islam itself and unfortunately far too many Muslims are either scared to do this or simply don't want to.

It's pretty much pointless trying to convince the like's of me of the fallacy of these myth's it's the people who are likely to be strapping bombs to themselves or preaching hatred who need to be hearing it!


Those are related to politics.

Political stability in the Muslim world would help a great deal regarding.

If political stability is demeaned everytime an anti-American regime comes to power (even through Democracy), then we can't do much about it.

Look at Saudi Arabia for example. Hard core US allies, but hard core human right abuser and hard core suppression. Christians are not even allowed to build Churches in Saudi Arabia.

The above being said, what else can we really do? We know the Saudi Kings won't survive without US help, so the issue is much bigger, and deeply political.



posted on Dec, 19 2010 @ 07:43 PM
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You see Ooze once politics gets involved into religion..it fails. Religion= God ways ,Politics= Mans way.
Its impossible for them to mix and work together...no matter what you think or say. It have never worked and never will.




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